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(03-05-2022, 02:39 PM)DTWD4∞ Wrote: [ -> ]Cooper is 27. How much longer will he have WR1 ability? 3 years? 5? if more than three then a trade for him would make sense since he has 3 years left on his contract. But, I would not give up a day two pick.
Cooper doesn't have WR1 ability to
BEGIN with.
This is why from the giddy up in this thread I was
ENTIRELY opposed against
ANY trade scenario for him.
The logic from the article being used is that in this scenario, you would end up forking over a current 3RD selection and a future 3RD selection. For a proven WR2 at best in the NFL. This would also make Jacksonville his third team in eight years already and the second time he's been traded.
He's not worth all of that. Not to mention the contract situation. Last year he was the 31st highest paid player in the NFL by salary. Regardless of position. Only DeAndre Hopkins, Julio Jones & Keenan Allen made more than he did last year at the WR position.
That's why you wait out the roster cuts and get a better deal in free agency that's more cap saving and cap friendly. No need to get stuck with a WR2 on the 4th highest salary hit at his position to play a role he's yet to show he can play in the NFL. While also giving up valuable draft picks in a deep WR class where you could potentially trade up to land your WR1.
Again, I am not against getting Cooper in Jacksonville. He's a solid, consistent WR2. And, for the right price? I would take him in a heartbeat. Just not a fan of forking over a pair of 3's for a guy at his level and age.
Yeah I think amari cooper, chark, a new TE from draft, and a new drafted WR could really change this passing attack. Agnew may also be more productive than thought, if he is back to full health and has a camp focused on WR.
Let cam walk, resign chark, sign cooper, draft Wr/te round 2-3.
Only problem is: Our fridge is empty! And we just cleaned up the mess from a fire in our kitchen.
We need to get some goods. We must start somewhere because we're having guests over in about 5 months.
Some of you are talking like we just came off a deep playoff run lol. Like we aren't regarded as a bottom 1-3 team in the NFL. Like the entire country hadn't spent the last 2 seasons laughing at us in disgust.
FAs will either refuse, or come here reluctantly after heavily taxing us, for at least the next two seasons.
Be gracious.
(03-05-2022, 03:39 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2022, 02:39 PM)DTWD4∞ Wrote: [ -> ]Cooper is 27. How much longer will he have WR1 ability? 3 years? 5? if more than three then a trade for him would make sense since he has 3 years left on his contract. But, I would not give up a day two pick.
Cooper doesn't have WR1 ability to BEGIN with.
This is why from the giddy up in this thread I was ENTIRELY opposed against ANY trade scenario for him.
The logic from the article being used is that in this scenario, you would end up forking over a current 3RD selection and a future 3RD selection. For a proven WR2 at best in the NFL. This would also make Jacksonville his third team in eight years already and the second time he's been traded.
He's not worth all of that. Not to mention the contract situation. Last year he was the 31st highest paid player in the NFL by salary. Regardless of position. Only DeAndre Hopkins, Julio Jones & Keenan Allen made more than he did last year at the WR position.
That's why you wait out the roster cuts and get a better deal in free agency that's more cap saving and cap friendly. No need to get stuck with a WR2 on the 4th highest salary hit at his position to play a role he's yet to show he can play in the NFL. While also giving up valuable draft picks in a deep WR class where you could potentially trade up to land your WR1.
Again, I am not against getting Cooper in Jacksonville. He's a solid, consistent WR2. And, for the right price? I would take him in a heartbeat. Just not a fan of forking over a pair of 3's for a guy at his level and age.
I think people forget there is a distinction between a #1 WR and an elite #1 WR. Cooper is absolutely a #1 WR in this league he is very good. He's just not a Davante Adams type of game breaking top 5 WR in the league.
I would love to see us get a combo of AR-15/Cooper in free agency if the price made sense but I'm sure we will sign guys like Christian Kirk and the other mid tier bums everyone has been clamoring for on here.
Lol yeah I think mistier guys won’t get us anywhere. We need some true talent. Amari cooper and chark would be an interesting combo, but I’m sure the price comes out to about 35 million combined (per year).
This is crazy. Jags have so many holes to fill. They cannot do that by taking on $22 million/year for a #2 WR and giving up draft picks?
If they want to chase him once Dallas cuts him and offer an incentive-based deal at like $7-12 million/year, sure. He would never take that, that is most you offer a guy like Cooper.
(03-05-2022, 12:18 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (03-04-2022, 04:39 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]I thought he was gonna be great at the NFL level - better than Julio!
Boy was I wrong. I thought he had next-level route running - but all I see is lazy footwork. He got his contract and stopped putting forth the max effort.
It's really a mark of all Alabama players.
(emphasis added)
I think NOW you went too far.
He's made four (4) Pro Bowls and is still in his prime.
Last year, he was on a team with a healthy Cee Dee Lamb, a mostly healthy Michael Gallup, a healthy Cedric Wilson, a healthy Dalton Schultz, Ezekiel Elliott and Tony Pollard.
Somebody's productivity was bound to drop off under the circumstances.
If Dallas isn't careful, if they move Lamb to #1, they could see his production drop too.
Since when do Pro Bowls matter?
Especially playing for the DALLAS COWBOYS... Pro Bowls mean literally nothing.
(03-07-2022, 06:07 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2022, 03:39 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Cooper doesn't have WR1 ability to BEGIN with.
This is why from the giddy up in this thread I was ENTIRELY opposed against ANY trade scenario for him.
The logic from the article being used is that in this scenario, you would end up forking over a current 3RD selection and a future 3RD selection. For a proven WR2 at best in the NFL. This would also make Jacksonville his third team in eight years already and the second time he's been traded.
He's not worth all of that. Not to mention the contract situation. Last year he was the 31st highest paid player in the NFL by salary. Regardless of position. Only DeAndre Hopkins, Julio Jones & Keenan Allen made more than he did last year at the WR position.
That's why you wait out the roster cuts and get a better deal in free agency that's more cap saving and cap friendly. No need to get stuck with a WR2 on the 4th highest salary hit at his position to play a role he's yet to show he can play in the NFL. While also giving up valuable draft picks in a deep WR class where you could potentially trade up to land your WR1.
Again, I am not against getting Cooper in Jacksonville. He's a solid, consistent WR2. And, for the right price? I would take him in a heartbeat. Just not a fan of forking over a pair of 3's for a guy at his level and age.
I think people forget there is a distinction between a #1 WR and an elite #1 WR. Cooper is absolutely a #1 WR in this league he is very good. He's just not a Davante Adams type of game breaking top 5 WR in the league.
I would love to see us get a combo of AR-15/Cooper in free agency if the price made sense but I'm sure we will sign guys like Christian Kirk and the other mid tier bums everyone has been clamoring for on here.
^This.
WR1 is 1000-1200 yards, 7-10 touchdows. Cooper can and has done that.
(03-09-2022, 03:33 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2022, 06:07 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I think people forget there is a distinction between a #1 WR and an elite #1 WR. Cooper is absolutely a #1 WR in this league he is very good. He's just not a Davante Adams type of game breaking top 5 WR in the league.
I would love to see us get a combo of AR-15/Cooper in free agency if the price made sense but I'm sure we will sign guys like Christian Kirk and the other mid tier bums everyone has been clamoring for on here.
^This.
WR1 is 1000-1200 yards, 7-10 touchdows. Cooper can and has done that.
In his 7 year career, Amari Cooper has AVERAGED 73 receptions/1010 yards/6TDs a season. I would take that in a heartbeat, given that he will only be 28 when the season begins.
For comparison, Mike Evans over his 8 year career has averaged 75 receptions/1162 yards/9TDs a season.
I would totally sling a 4th/5th to the Cowboys for Amari.
I trade for Cooper and then re-work his contract to be more cap friendly.
(03-09-2022, 07:38 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I trade for Cooper and then re-work his contract to be more cap friendly.
Agreed. He's the top WR I'd go after. He's a true number 1 imo
(03-09-2022, 04:46 PM)NCJag Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2022, 03:33 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]^This.
WR1 is 1000-1200 yards, 7-10 touchdows. Cooper can and has done that.
In his 7 year career, Amari Cooper has AVERAGED 73 receptions/1010 yards/6TDs a season. I would take that in a heartbeat, given that he will only be 28 when the season begins.
For comparison, Mike Evans over his 8 year career has averaged 75 receptions/1162 yards/9TDs a season.
I would totally sling a 4th/5th to the Cowboys for Amari.
I would be okay with it as long as Cooper is okay with it. I don't want a high-priced player who doesn't want to be here.
(03-07-2022, 06:07 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I think people forget there is a distinction between a #1 WR and an elite #1 WR. Cooper is absolutely a #1 WR in this league he is very good. He's just not a Davante Adams type of game breaking top 5 WR in the league.
I would love to see us get a combo of AR-15/Cooper in free agency if the price made sense but I'm sure we will sign guys like Christian Kirk and the other mid tier bums everyone has been clamoring for on here.
I agree. We talk about all the holes we have and that I don’t think anyone will dispute. But we have to start somewhere. Wr was a glaring one. Adding cooper and signing Chark fills two out of the 11 starting roles on one side of the ball. And really only leaves some work on the oline and TE and you can focus on D which we are probably going to after with the first pick and there not as many problems on that side of the ball as there were on Offense.
No body wants to over pay players but that is something that this will have to swallow until we get better. It’s easy to lop everything together and say we were [BLEEP] last year and there are a ton of holes but, like I said, you have to start somewhere.
(03-07-2022, 06:07 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2022, 03:39 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Cooper doesn't have WR1 ability to BEGIN with.
This is why from the giddy up in this thread I was ENTIRELY opposed against ANY trade scenario for him.
The logic from the article being used is that in this scenario, you would end up forking over a current 3RD selection and a future 3RD selection. For a proven WR2 at best in the NFL. This would also make Jacksonville his third team in eight years already and the second time he's been traded.
He's not worth all of that. Not to mention the contract situation. Last year he was the 31st highest paid player in the NFL by salary. Regardless of position. Only DeAndre Hopkins, Julio Jones & Keenan Allen made more than he did last year at the WR position.
That's why you wait out the roster cuts and get a better deal in free agency that's more cap saving and cap friendly. No need to get stuck with a WR2 on the 4th highest salary hit at his position to play a role he's yet to show he can play in the NFL. While also giving up valuable draft picks in a deep WR class where you could potentially trade up to land your WR1.
Again, I am not against getting Cooper in Jacksonville. He's a solid, consistent WR2. And, for the right price? I would take him in a heartbeat. Just not a fan of forking over a pair of 3's for a guy at his level and age.
I think people forget there is a distinction between a #1 WR and an elite #1 WR. Cooper is absolutely a #1 WR in this league he is very good. He's just not a Davante Adams type of game breaking top 5 WR in the league.
I would love to see us get a combo of AR-15/Cooper in free agency if the price made sense but I'm sure we will sign guys like Christian Kirk and the other mid tier bums everyone has been clamoring for on here.
(03-09-2022, 03:33 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2022, 06:07 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I think people forget there is a distinction between a #1 WR and an elite #1 WR. Cooper is absolutely a #1 WR in this league he is very good. He's just not a Davante Adams type of game breaking top 5 WR in the league.
I would love to see us get a combo of AR-15/Cooper in free agency if the price made sense but I'm sure we will sign guys like Christian Kirk and the other mid tier bums everyone has been clamoring for on here.
^This.
WR1 is 1000-1200 yards, 7-10 touchdows. Cooper can and has done that.
Again, you're wanting to shell out a pair or 3RD picks in a deep WR class with a guy that's going to warrant a contract negotiation at the end of the year with a 20M+ cap hit as it stands. No thank you.
I think people also forget that he's put up those numbers while playing on better football teams with more talent around him. Even when you go back and look at what he did in Oakland. Michael Crabtree was matching him step-for-step on the stat sheet. When you look at what he's done in Dallas. He's getting virtually matched again step-for-step by guys like Lamb, Schultz and Gallup.
You're expecting him to come in here and be "the guy" where he's never played on any team in his career that didn't have at least 2 - 3 other guys on it that were capable of matching him on the stat sheet. You're really rolling the dice here.
Again, in this scenario, at going on 28 years old in June this year, why would this be his 3rd stop in nearly 8 seasons? And, the 2nd time he would be traded? There's something to be said about that. Is he inconsistent during the regular season? Does he show lapses or lull moments during practices? Is he just a guy? Because there's a good chance in this scenario, you [BLEEP] around and find out the hard way.
He was getting a lot of help around him during his career so far. And he was never able to justify where he was ultimately drafted from his class. You think Dallas traded for him expecting him to put up those kind of numbers above? No. They didn't. They wanted him to be "the guy" and he never elevated himself to that level and that's why they had to go out and draft a guy like CeeDee Lamb.
I am telling you. This team will have buyer's remorse if they bite on a trade for Cooper. I bet he'll be lucky to hit 70 catches, 750 yards and 4 TD's on this offense as the WR1. Because we simply DO NOT have the supporting cast right now to help off set any shortcoming's of his game.
Wait it out. Let Dallas cut him. Make him a fair offer in free agency when the market opens up and go from there. Giving up any draft picks in this class or next year's class though? Just stupid.
Normally this isn't a move that a rebuilding team like ours should make. You don't overspend and burn resources when you have so many holes to fill.
But I feel our team is in a particular situation: tagging Robinson and not Chark, the multiple tags and contract extentions that were given to potentially available WRs hitting FA (Adams, Godwin, Mike Williams), the competition who will be much tougher to land the few good WRs available are all things that make upgrading our WR group complicated unless we want to use most of our day 2 resources in the draft to do that.
In addition to that there's the fact that in the draft we have picks at tough spots for selecting a WR: if we don't trade down we are likely selecting Hutchinson (which I like) and then miss out on the top WRs. With this year class there will surely be good WRs available on the first couple of days but that would force us to nail it with our second round pick or something like that.
To top it all there's Trevor Lawrence. We can't waste another offseason giving him average or below average weapons. We need to surround him with a good cast and have him improve and get comfortable in this offense. And we needed to this yesterday so it's not something that can wait one more season.
Considering all that, if the cost isn't too much (and it shouldn't with that cap hit so a combo of a 4th plus a 6th or something could do it) or if we can get creative with the trade or even better we can restructure Cooper's contract (which past 2022 is very easy to get out from) pulling the trigger on Amari Cooper is probably the move that gives us the best chance to upgrade right away our WR group with a solid number 1, perhaps not elite but defnitely better than what we have.
And that would still allow us to either try to bring back Chark, making a strong push for Allen Robinson, being patient in the draft for the right WR at the right value and letting us also concentrate on upgrading the other group in major need of help which is the OL (upgrading from losing Norwell won't be a given and we still have the other OG spot to fill).
So apologies for the long post but to sum it up I think that while this kind of move might seem premature for a team in our situation, it could be the one move that would guarantee us an immediate and guaranteed upgrade to help Trevor and that gives us the opportunity to methodically pursue other top targets without panicking or having to rush signing a WR just because we missed on the top targets.
Obviously it all changes if by "talks" at the combine they know/are confident they can both land Allen Robinson and bring Chark Back or stuff like that.
(03-10-2022, 09:09 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2022, 06:07 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I think people forget there is a distinction between a #1 WR and an elite #1 WR. Cooper is absolutely a #1 WR in this league he is very good. He's just not a Davante Adams type of game breaking top 5 WR in the league.
I would love to see us get a combo of AR-15/Cooper in free agency if the price made sense but I'm sure we will sign guys like Christian Kirk and the other mid tier bums everyone has been clamoring for on here.
(03-09-2022, 03:33 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]^This.
WR1 is 1000-1200 yards, 7-10 touchdows. Cooper can and has done that.
Again, you're wanting to shell out a pair or 3RD picks in a deep WR class with a guy that's going to warrant a contract negotiation at the end of the year with a 20M+ cap hit as it stands. No thank you.
I think people also forget that he's put up those numbers while playing on better football teams with more talent around him. Even when you go back and look at what he did in Oakland. Michael Crabtree was matching him step-for-step on the stat sheet. When you look at what he's done in Dallas. He's getting virtually matched again step-for-step by guys like Lamb, Schultz and Gallup.
You're expecting him to come in here and be "the guy" where he's never played on any team in his career that didn't have at least 2 - 3 other guys on it that were capable of matching him on the stat sheet. You're really rolling the dice here.
Again, in this scenario, at going on 28 years old in June this year, why would this be his 3rd stop in nearly 8 seasons? And, the 2nd time he would be traded? There's something to be said about that. Is he inconsistent during the regular season? Does he show lapses or lull moments during practices? Is he just a guy? Because there's a good chance in this scenario, you [BLEEP] around and find out the hard way.
He was getting a lot of help around him during his career so far. And he was never able to justify where he was ultimately drafted from his class. You think Dallas traded for him expecting him to put up those kind of numbers above? No. They didn't. They wanted him to be "the guy" and he never elevated himself to that level and that's why they had to go out and draft a guy like CeeDee Lamb.
I am telling you. This team will have buyer's remorse if they bite on a trade for Cooper. I bet he'll be lucky to hit 70 catches, 750 yards and 4 TD's on this offense as the WR1. Because we simply DO NOT have the supporting cast right now to help off set any shortcoming's of his game.
Wait it out. Let Dallas cut him. Make him a fair offer in free agency when the market opens up and go from there. Giving up any draft picks in this class or next year's class though? Just stupid.
I'm kinda leaning this way, too.
We've already seen a ton of teams tag their potentially departing WR, so a lot of the contenders that might be able to lure Cooper with the promise of postseason in addition to any contract are already out of the picture; I can't say I know all who would be in contention for a bidding war, but I imagine Vegas would be one, does he want to return? The tire fire in Carolina? watching Wilson get sacked to oblivion in Jersey?
Everyone is saying trade for him, then ask him to renegotiate; why not save the picks and wow him with the contract? If some other team wants to mortgage picks and sacrifice their cap just to say they won the bidding war, let em.
My biggest fear is that as the years creep up, we trade for him, keep paying him 20M, and his time in Duval is defined by recurring lower-leg injuries, because that's just what seems to happen.
(03-10-2022, 09:09 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2022, 06:07 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I think people forget there is a distinction between a #1 WR and an elite #1 WR. Cooper is absolutely a #1 WR in this league he is very good. He's just not a Davante Adams type of game breaking top 5 WR in the league.
I would love to see us get a combo of AR-15/Cooper in free agency if the price made sense but I'm sure we will sign guys like Christian Kirk and the other mid tier bums everyone has been clamoring for on here.
(03-09-2022, 03:33 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]^This.
WR1 is 1000-1200 yards, 7-10 touchdows. Cooper can and has done that.
Again, you're wanting to shell out a pair or 3RD picks in a deep WR class with a guy that's going to warrant a contract negotiation at the end of the year with a 20M+ cap hit as it stands. No thank you.
I think people also forget that he's put up those numbers while playing on better football teams with more talent around him. Even when you go back and look at what he did in Oakland. Michael Crabtree was matching him step-for-step on the stat sheet. When you look at what he's done in Dallas. He's getting virtually matched again step-for-step by guys like Lamb, Schultz and Gallup.
You're expecting him to come in here and be "the guy" where he's never played on any team in his career that didn't have at least 2 - 3 other guys on it that were capable of matching him on the stat sheet. You're really rolling the dice here.
Again, in this scenario, at going on 28 years old in June this year, why would this be his 3rd stop in nearly 8 seasons? And, the 2nd time he would be traded? There's something to be said about that. Is he inconsistent during the regular season? Does he show lapses or lull moments during practices? Is he just a guy? Because there's a good chance in this scenario, you [BLEEP] around and find out the hard way.
He was getting a lot of help around him during his career so far. And he was never able to justify where he was ultimately drafted from his class. You think Dallas traded for him expecting him to put up those kind of numbers above? No. They didn't. They wanted him to be "the guy" and he never elevated himself to that level and that's why they had to go out and draft a guy like CeeDee Lamb.
I am telling you. This team will have buyer's remorse if they bite on a trade for Cooper. I bet he'll be lucky to hit 70 catches, 750 yards and 4 TD's on this offense as the WR1. Because we simply DO NOT have the supporting cast right now to help off set any shortcoming's of his game.
Wait it out. Let Dallas cut him. Make him a fair offer in free agency when the market opens up and go from there. Giving up any draft picks in this class or next year's class though? Just stupid.
He wouldn't cost nearly that much. Dallas is likely gonna cut him. They will take much less than a pair of 3rd round picks. We could also agree to re-work his deal to a much more cap friendly number upon him arriving after the trade. That's how a lot of these trades get done. Cooper is worlds better than any receiver we currently have on the roster and trading for him would not change my draft plans at all. I still take a WR on day 2 of the draft, no matter what. We need a completely re-built receiving unit.
As far as "rolling the dice," of course we are. We have to. We currently have the worst WR's in the NFL. Something needs to be done. A #2 WR on another team would be a #1 here and would improve our receiving unit tremendously. If I were GM, I would make sure we land one of these WR's via a trade, D.K. Metcalf, Tyler Lockett or Amari Cooper. I cannot put into words how important it is that we land one of these players. There is no WR's in free agency worth targeting. We have to get one in a trade.
How about ARob and someone like JuJu and a couple draft picks
(03-10-2022, 12:10 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]How about ARob and someone like JuJu and a couple draft picks
Pass.
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