Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(05-28-2023, 06:14 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2023, 05:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]No one is asking YOU to celebrate anything. 

Do you not see that?

Yes. They are. They are intentionally targeting children because they see it as a societal goal to normalize sexual fluidity. By targeting my children, you are saying that I need to celebrate it, because my family is an extension of me. Take literally anything they are doing and replace it with Christianity and you can see how insane it is that we allow this to exist in our societal norms. Should we teach children Christianity in schools? It's been around a lot longer than gender theory. No? Why not? What if we just teach it to your children? That's cool with you, right?

There is 900,000% more Christianity poured into our society than there is gay pride. 
Seriously. Bad comp. 
Christian Nationalism is the hottest new trend on the right currently, is it not? 

 I think the "targeting our children" bit is grossly overstated, but again, I see why folks are worried about it. 
I don't expect you to alter your critical stance on how much that is or isn't happening. 
I've said it now exactly FIVE times in this thread that children should not be sexualized or exposed to sexually charged topics before adolescence. Not sure why my posts receive retorts implying otherwise at this point. 


And remind me again, how many gay pride parades have you attended? 
Oh, zero? 
Right, that's because no one expects you to celebrate it.

(05-28-2023, 05:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2023, 05:45 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]And this is where I vehemently disagree with you.  Conservatives are not being asked to accept homosexuality.  They are being told if they do celebrate it in all forms then they are transphobic, or insert what ever “ist” is supplied by the far far left.  Until reasonable people start pushing back this BS will continue.

It sucks that so many conservatives feel that way. 
Wish it wasn't the case, but I do understand why folks feel that way on some level. I do. 
As I've mentioned in the thread - it does feel like we're being force fed "the message" a bit at times. 

I wish it were simpler. 

Understand that I just feel bad for these young people as they hit adolescence - don't understand why they are different - and need guidance beyond being told they are just perverted - need to be "fixed" and assume a heterosexual life. 

Beyond all the statistics about suicide associated with gay kids unable to find their way, I've known two individuals that couldn't reconcile their own non-hetero nature with the guilt brought on by un-acceptance among their family and friends. They ended their own lives. I believe the numbers out there that suggest this isn't an uncommon tragedy  - and I simply have compassion for each new generation of kids that have to go through some form of that inner turmoil. 

I guess that's why I defend awareness/acceptance/validation, yet don't expect everyone to "celebrate" this group of people.

I can accept your take and agree with it.  Unfortunately that is not what is currently happening.  Can you not see that?

(05-28-2023, 06:49 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2023, 06:14 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. They are. They are intentionally targeting children because they see it as a societal goal to normalize sexual fluidity. By targeting my children, you are saying that I need to celebrate it, because my family is an extension of me. Take literally anything they are doing and replace it with Christianity and you can see how insane it is that we allow this to exist in our societal norms. Should we teach children Christianity in schools? It's been around a lot longer than gender theory. No? Why not? What if we just teach it to your children? That's cool with you, right?

There is 900,000% more Christianity poured into our society than there is gay pride. 
Seriously. Bad comp. 
Christian Nationalism is the hottest new trend on the right currently, is it not? 

 I think the "targeting our children" bit is grossly overstated, but again, I see why folks are worried about it. 
I don't expect you to alter your critical stance on how much that is or isn't happening. 
I've said it now exactly FIVE times in this thread that children should not be sexualized or exposed to sexually charged topics before adolescence. Not sure why my posts receive retorts implying otherwise at this point. 


And remind me again, how many gay pride parades have you attended? 
Oh, zero? 
Right, that's because no one expects you to celebrate it.

I understand what you're saying but the comparison does not take into account the acuteness of each. Christians are openly and joyfully denigrated by those on the left without consequence (but I've yet to see one burn a Koran or openly criticize Islam, curious, huh?) while someone who misgenders, or questions the gender movement, are demonized, persecuted and sometimes fired from their jobs. There are no displays in retail outlets 'celebrating' Christianity, as there should be. There are no schools and universities demanding absolute adherence to Christian dogma or they'll be kicked out or fired, but we see that every day when it comes to the gay and transgender narrative. And for full disclosure, I'm atheist, so religion is not a driving force in my life. However, I can see the clear differences between the force of narrative between the alphabets and religion. If I tell my child's school I don't want religion forced upon them, no problem. If I tell my child's school I don't want gay and transgenderism taught to them, I'll be persecuted.

(05-28-2023, 06:49 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2023, 06:14 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. They are. They are intentionally targeting children because they see it as a societal goal to normalize sexual fluidity. By targeting my children, you are saying that I need to celebrate it, because my family is an extension of me. Take literally anything they are doing and replace it with Christianity and you can see how insane it is that we allow this to exist in our societal norms. Should we teach children Christianity in schools? It's been around a lot longer than gender theory. No? Why not? What if we just teach it to your children? That's cool with you, right?

There is 900,000% more Christianity poured into our society than there is gay pride. 
Seriously. Bad comp. 
Christian Nationalism is the hottest new trend on the right currently, is it not? 

 I think the "targeting our children" bit is grossly overstated, but again, I see why folks are worried about it. 
I don't expect you to alter your critical stance on how much that is or isn't happening. 
I've said it now exactly FIVE times in this thread that children should not be sexualized or exposed to sexually charged topics before adolescence. Not sure why my posts receive retorts implying otherwise at this point. 


And remind me again, how many gay pride parades have you attended? 
Oh, zero? 
Right, that's because no one expects you to celebrate it.

Sure. I acknowledge YOU stated that. I am not arguing with your beliefs. I am arguing with "their" beliefs. I am a believer that's it's WAY too easy to find a bad example of anything. You can find almost anything in a nation of 300 million people. I try hard not to be reactionary. That said, there is an agenda. I think it's organic, but it's an agenda, nonetheless. People with power want a sexually liberated nation and go out of their way to feed it to the youth. In every generation, there is a zeitgeist, or spirit of the people, that echoes and shapes the views of the time. It often occurs when the power to generate messaging changes hands. 

Christianity has long been a periphery issue in this country since the early 90's. They lost that battle. Anyways, I had no intentions of making a true analogy with Christianity... it was to ask you to consider how you'd feel about the issue if you replaced LGBTQ+ issues with Christianity. This is how I consider what's being pushed vs what's organic. Target has Christian bathing suits? Meh. Their choice. The White House puts a Christian flag across the front of the White House? Not cool. Bud Light hires a trans person for selling beer? Meh. You do you... we teach Christian theory in schools? Not so much. Same goes for government endorsed mandatory Christian education. Keep the religion out of our systems. 

Again, moderates fail to see things for what they are. They know Christians want to make converts. It's what Christianity espouses. Yet, when people say LGBTQ+ wants converts, you say conspiracy. Of course all gays don't think this way, but the organized movement DOES. Right?

San Francisco Gay Choir: 'We'll Convert Your Children' - YouTube

(05-28-2023, 07:26 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2023, 06:49 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]There is 900,000% more Christianity poured into our society than there is gay pride. 
Seriously. Bad comp. 
Christian Nationalism is the hottest new trend on the right currently, is it not? 

 I think the "targeting our children" bit is grossly overstated, but again, I see why folks are worried about it. 
I don't expect you to alter your critical stance on how much that is or isn't happening. 
I've said it now exactly FIVE times in this thread that children should not be sexualized or exposed to sexually charged topics before adolescence. Not sure why my posts receive retorts implying otherwise at this point. 


And remind me again, how many gay pride parades have you attended? 
Oh, zero? 
Right, that's because no one expects you to celebrate it.

I understand what you're saying but the comparison does not take into account the acuteness of each. Christians are openly and joyfully denigrated by those on the left without consequence (but I've yet to see one burn a Koran or openly criticize Islam, curious, huh?) while someone who misgenders, or questions the gender movement, are demonized, persecuted and sometimes fired from their jobs. There are no displays in retail outlets 'celebrating' Christianity, as there should be. There are no schools and universities demanding absolute adherence to Christian dogma or they'll be kicked out or fired, but we see that every day when it comes to the gay and transgender narrative. And for full disclosure, I'm atheist, so religion is not a driving force in my life. However, I can see the clear differences between the force of narrative between the alphabets and religion. If I tell my child's school I don't want religion forced upon them, no problem. If I tell my child's school I don't want gay and transgenderism taught to them, I'll be persecuted.

What "consequence" should come to a left leaning person for "denigrating" someone else's religious beliefs exactly? 
I'm curious what justice should be meted upon them? 


Regarding the bold: 
Is it actually being taught to them? 
What percentage of children in the United States right now are being taught gay and transgenderism in school?
Of the 90,148 public schools in our country - how many have installed this curriculum? 
I'd love to know, because reading this thread you'd think a very large number of them are ramming it down the throats  of kids prior to the age we are accustomed to basic sex ed being introduced. 

I contend it is likely a minuscule amount, but that amount is being magnified and creating an uproar. 
Which is fine. I get that on some level. But I don't believe there are systems in place for teaching gay and transgenderism to children in public schools on any scale truly worthy of the outcry. I don't object that being addressed. Though I think a message of acceptance is warranted. 
And I support parents having a choice as to whether their kid is subject to any of it. 

By the way - many parents already elect to send their children to one of the 34,000+ Christian schools in America.

(05-28-2023, 07:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2023, 07:26 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I understand what you're saying but the comparison does not take into account the acuteness of each. Christians are openly and joyfully denigrated by those on the left without consequence (but I've yet to see one burn a Koran or openly criticize Islam, curious, huh?) while someone who misgenders, or questions the gender movement, are demonized, persecuted and sometimes fired from their jobs. There are no displays in retail outlets 'celebrating' Christianity, as there should be. There are no schools and universities demanding absolute adherence to Christian dogma or they'll be kicked out or fired, but we see that every day when it comes to the gay and transgender narrative. And for full disclosure, I'm atheist, so religion is not a driving force in my life. However, I can see the clear differences between the force of narrative between the alphabets and religion. If I tell my child's school I don't want religion forced upon them, no problem. If I tell my child's school I don't want gay and transgenderism taught to them, I'll be persecuted.

What "consequence" should come to a left leaning person for "denigrating" someone else's religious beliefs exactly? 
I'm curious what justice should be meted upon them? 


Regarding the bold: 
Is it actually being taught to them? 
What percentage of children in the United States right now are being taught gay and transgenderism in school?
Of the 90,148 public schools in our country - how many have installed this curriculum? 
I'd love to know, because reading this thread you'd think a very large number of them are ramming it down the throats  of kids prior to the age we are accustomed to basic sex ed being introduced. 

I contend it is likely a minuscule amount, but that amount is being magnified and creating an uproar. 
Which is fine. I get that on some level. But I don't believe there are systems in place for teaching gay and transgenderism to children in public schools on any scale truly worthy of the outcry. I don't object that being addressed. Though I think a message of acceptance is warranted. 
And I support parents having a choice as to whether their kid is subject to any of it. 

By the way - many parents already elect to send their children to one of the 34,000+ Christian schools in America.

I think we agree, even 1 is too many.

(05-28-2023, 07:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2023, 07:26 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I understand what you're saying but the comparison does not take into account the acuteness of each. Christians are openly and joyfully denigrated by those on the left without consequence (but I've yet to see one burn a Koran or openly criticize Islam, curious, huh?) while someone who misgenders, or questions the gender movement, are demonized, persecuted and sometimes fired from their jobs. There are no displays in retail outlets 'celebrating' Christianity, as there should be. There are no schools and universities demanding absolute adherence to Christian dogma or they'll be kicked out or fired, but we see that every day when it comes to the gay and transgender narrative. And for full disclosure, I'm atheist, so religion is not a driving force in my life. However, I can see the clear differences between the force of narrative between the alphabets and religion. If I tell my child's school I don't want religion forced upon them, no problem. If I tell my child's school I don't want gay and transgenderism taught to them, I'll be persecuted.

What "consequence" should come to a left leaning person for "denigrating" someone else's religious beliefs exactly? 
I'm curious what justice should be meted upon them? 


Regarding the bold: 
Is it actually being taught to them? 
What percentage of children in the United States right now are being taught gay and transgenderism in school?
Of the 90,148 public schools in our country - how many have installed this curriculum? 
I'd love to know, because reading this thread you'd think a very large number of them are ramming it down the throats  of kids prior to the age we are accustomed to basic sex ed being introduced. 

I contend it is likely a minuscule amount, but that amount is being magnified and creating an uproar. 
Which is fine. I get that on some level. But I don't believe there are systems in place for teaching gay and transgenderism to children in public schools on any scale truly worthy of the outcry. I don't object that being addressed. Though I think a message of acceptance is warranted. 
And I support parents having a choice as to whether their kid is subject to any of it. 

By the way - many parents already elect to send their children to one of the 34,000+ Christian schools in America.

I'll concede, the number of schools outwardly teaching this to children is small, but I use it to illustrate my force of narrative argument. Just as the consequence argument. Consequence and justice can be mutually exclusive, and when it comes to the 'woke hive' as someone referred to it, justice isn't in the terms many times and the powers that be (the press, District Attorneys, politicians, university staff...) are selective and far more prone to retaliate for anti-gay than anti-religious acts of contempt. For example, the bank employee who was fired for his refusal to put his gender preferences on his nametag. Now, one can argue that this is the policy of his employer, but how enforceable would that policy be (and the employer confident they would be protected) if that same employer required religious preferences on nametags. 

I'm not arguing your logic, I agree with it. However, I think it's plain to see the hue and cry of the woke agenda equals, if not exceeds, the cultism of "Christian Nationalism". It's size and scope far outweigh the number of people it actually affects. 

But then that gets into the realm of manipulation of the masses by political and ideological powers, which has some legitimacy.

(05-28-2023, 08:42 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2023, 07:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]What "consequence" should come to a left leaning person for "denigrating" someone else's religious beliefs exactly? 
I'm curious what justice should be meted upon them? 


Regarding the bold: 
Is it actually being taught to them? 
What percentage of children in the United States right now are being taught gay and transgenderism in school?
Of the 90,148 public schools in our country - how many have installed this curriculum? 
I'd love to know, because reading this thread you'd think a very large number of them are ramming it down the throats  of kids prior to the age we are accustomed to basic sex ed being introduced. 

I contend it is likely a minuscule amount, but that amount is being magnified and creating an uproar. 
Which is fine. I get that on some level. But I don't believe there are systems in place for teaching gay and transgenderism to children in public schools on any scale truly worthy of the outcry. I don't object that being addressed. Though I think a message of acceptance is warranted. 
And I support parents having a choice as to whether their kid is subject to any of it. 

By the way - many parents already elect to send their children to one of the 34,000+ Christian schools in America.

I'll concede, the number of schools outwardly teaching this to children is small, but I use it to illustrate my force of narrative argument. Just as the consequence argument. Consequence and justice can be mutually exclusive, and when it comes to the 'woke hive' as someone referred to it, justice isn't in the terms many times and the powers that be (the press, District Attorneys, politicians, university staff...) are selective and far more prone to retaliate for anti-gay than anti-religious acts of contempt. For example, the bank employee who was fired for his refusal to put his gender preferences on his nametag. Now, one can argue that this is the policy of his employer, but how enforceable would that policy be (and the employer confident they would be protected) if that same employer required religious preferences on nametags. 

I'm not arguing your logic, I agree with it. However, I think it's plain to see the hue and cry of the woke agenda equals, if not exceeds, the cultism of "Christian Nationalism". It's size and scope far outweigh the number of people it actually affects. 

But then that gets into the realm of manipulation of the masses by political and ideological powers, which has some legitimacy.

I'd stop short of saying one ideology exceeds the other, but I'm with you more than not here. 

I would join you in bemoaning the fact that individuals clinging to certain conservative values do suffer the unfair judgement from the "public court of opinion" and in some institutions find themselves punished unfairly. 

I think it's rare by comparison to the history of judgement other groups have endured, but I think it's unfair. 

There are plenty of instances out there where the judgements were earned honestly, but plenty more where it was wholly unnecessary for the individual to suffer ridicule and/or job termination for their stance. 

The "woke" label is horribly misused and attributed and I wish we had a better term, but here we are. 

I could go to great lengths here listing a myriad of instances where this scenario has occurred to folks persecuted in some way for their liberal stance, but I don't see the point currently. Suffice it to say that many decades have preceded this moment that were wrought by homosexuals hiding in plain sight in order to not lose their jobs or place in their community.

(05-28-2023, 08:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2023, 08:42 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I'll concede, the number of schools outwardly teaching this to children is small, but I use it to illustrate my force of narrative argument. Just as the consequence argument. Consequence and justice can be mutually exclusive, and when it comes to the 'woke hive' as someone referred to it, justice isn't in the terms many times and the powers that be (the press, District Attorneys, politicians, university staff...) are selective and far more prone to retaliate for anti-gay than anti-religious acts of contempt. For example, the bank employee who was fired for his refusal to put his gender preferences on his nametag. Now, one can argue that this is the policy of his employer, but how enforceable would that policy be (and the employer confident they would be protected) if that same employer required religious preferences on nametags. 

I'm not arguing your logic, I agree with it. However, I think it's plain to see the hue and cry of the woke agenda equals, if not exceeds, the cultism of "Christian Nationalism". It's size and scope far outweigh the number of people it actually affects. 

But then that gets into the realm of manipulation of the masses by political and ideological powers, which has some legitimacy.

I'd stop short of saying one ideology exceeds the other, but I'm with you more than not here. 

I would join you in bemoaning the fact that individuals clinging to certain conservative values do suffer the unfair judgement from the "public court of opinion" and in some institutions find themselves punished unfairly. 

I think it's rare by comparison to the history of judgement other groups have endured, but I think it's unfair. 

There are plenty of instances out there where the judgements were earned honestly, but plenty more where it was wholly unnecessary for the individual to suffer ridicule and/or job termination for their stance. 

The "woke" label is horribly misused and attributed and I wish we had a better term, but here we are. 

I could go to great lengths here listing a myriad of instances where this scenario has occurred to folks persecuted in some way for their liberal stance, but I don't see the point currently. Suffice it to say that many decades have preceded this moment that were wrought by homosexuals hiding in plain sight in order to not lose their jobs or place in their community.

That's a good springboard for examining where this debate bifurcates for most people. Most everyone on here has no issues with homosexuals. What has everyone in such a reflexive reaction is for this to come smashing through the door in sudden surprise.

And for me specifically, how a few powerful people are intentionally making it that way. I have no problem with homosexuals. I don't think it needs to be in every TV show, but I understand why people might want to use their power to normalize it. They are trying to say they are just like a heterosexual couple. I get it. I don't know that we allow for slow progress anymore. We have to try to bend everyone to a certain mindset overnight and demagogue anyone that doesn't conform.

The problem I have is that I actually understand progressive philosophy and what it wants to accomplish. It's the activism component that gets me riled up. Praxis, Praxis, Praxis. This idea simply means one can't be JUST accepting. In order to be an ally you have to actively champion these ideals. It's not any one school that's a problem (though I am sure they exist). Rather, it's the intentional capture of higher learning where you create and pass on acolytes. And, since the goal is praxis, when those acolytes reach positions of power, they use it to bring in new acolytes. Specifically in the teaching world, this is called Critical Pedagogy. I don't care that people are gay or that people support them. I care about something that I know is happening and most people dismiss as "conspiracy." That's become such a braindead word. There is a real movement with real goals, and we all can't be dismissive about what's happening in front of our very eyes.

(05-30-2023, 12:12 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Actress won’t bring her non-binary 7-year-old to Target. 

[BLEEP] moron.

(05-30-2023, 12:12 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Actress won’t bring her non-binary 7-year-old to Target. 

7 year old "non-binary" = mentally ill child and "parent".

She's not mental. She's positioning herself well in a system that rewards it.

(05-30-2023, 05:05 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]She's not mental. She's positioning herself well in a system that rewards it.

That is exactly what I was thinking. And exploiting her child in the process.

First they came for Bud Light.  Okay, fine, I said.  

Then they came for Target.  Who cares, I said.   

But then they came for Chic-Fil-A.  CHIC-FIL-A.  Makers of delicious chicken sandwiches.  

https://www.thestreet.com/restaurants/ch...ht-boycott

They say all revolutions eventually eat their own.  

Really, I will gladly give up Bud Light, and who cares about Target.  But I am not giving up Chic-Fil-A.

(05-31-2023, 05:08 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]First they came for Bud Light.  Okay, fine, I said.  

Then they came for Target.  Who cares, I said.   

But then they came for Chic-Fil-A.  CHIC-FIL-A.  Makers of delicious chicken sandwiches.  

https://www.thestreet.com/restaurants/ch...ht-boycott

They say all revolutions eventually eat their own.  

Really, I will gladly give up Bud Light, and who cares about Target.  But I am not giving up Chic-Fil-A.

That link looks like something hastily thrown together to try and stir up controversy.

They've had DEI since 2000 or so. They are also a privately held company outside the pressures placed on the publicly traded ones. Dan Cathy also needs to step back from this shoe shine drama, he's not helping.

I can assure you guys with 100% certainty that not all kids who grow up in a Christian home and/or are sent to a Christian or Catholic school come out of it with any desire to follow up on it. With 100% certainty this is not the case.

(05-31-2023, 08:33 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I can assure you guys with 100% certainty that not all kids who grow up in a Christian home and/or are sent to a Christian or Catholic school come out of it with any desire to follow up on it. With 100% certainty this is not the case.

Spoken like a true blasphemer.