Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(07-15-2024, 09:18 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 09:13 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Giving a man who still believes he won in 2020 four years to "fix" it so it doesn't happen again will undermine our election system and could easily mean the end of democracy.

Trump had 8 weeks to plan the fiasco we now call January 6.  He's had 4 years to think about it and still won't apologize.  What is he going to try when he has four more years in power to create his next move?

If that's not enough facts and logic for you, I just don't understand what it would take to get you there.

That's actually a lot of emotion, but carry on.

You can't get emotion through text unless there's an "I feel" statement.
There is no emotion in that text. None.  Only a lack of reading comprehension based on refusal to engage with ideas that make you feel bad.

(07-15-2024, 09:13 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 09:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]If the Democrats want to tone down the rhetoric in response to this shooting, I think they should stop talking about how electing Trump would mean the end of democracy.  Or else back it up with some logic and facts.  And probably Trump should stop talking about how electing Biden would mean we lose our country.  Get back to actual policy issues and stop demonizing each other, unless, of course, they can back up the personal attacks with proven facts and logic.

Giving a man who still believes he won in 2020 four years to "fix" it so it doesn't happen again will undermine our election system and could easily mean the end of democracy. (Neither fact or logic is opinion) Or it could very easily mean a better election system.  Like having a 3rd party vote machine company have the only password into their system? Not saying anything inappropriate was done but that should not be allowed.

Trump had 8 weeks to plan the fiasco we now call January 6.  He's had 4 years to think about it and still won't apologize.  What is he going to try when he has four more years in power to create his next move? (Neither fact or logic is opinion)  And Pelosi had the time to place the requested security in place. Create a soft target and hope for the best?  Maybe he didn't apologize because he did no wrong? We would know based on the January 6th committee, however, in violation of policy they destroyed the records, why?

If that's not enough facts and logic for you, I just don't understand what it would take to get you there.

I have read your response. I looked for the facts and found none. What I found were your opinions. Now that is fine but they are neither facts or logic. Come on your better than that.

(07-15-2024, 10:55 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 09:13 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Giving a man who still believes he won in 2020 four years to "fix" it so it doesn't happen again will undermine our election system and could easily mean the end of democracy. (Neither fact or logic is opinion) Or it could very easily mean a better election system.  Like having a 3rd party vote machine company have the only password into their system? Not saying anything inappropriate was done but that should not be allowed.

Trump had 8 weeks to plan the fiasco we now call January 6.  He's had 4 years to think about it and still won't apologize.  What is he going to try when he has four more years in power to create his next move? (Neither fact or logic is opinion)  And Pelosi had the time to place the requested security in place. Create a soft target and hope for the best?  Maybe he didn't apologize because he did no wrong? We would know based on the January 6th committee, however, in violation of policy they destroyed the records, why?

If that's not enough facts and logic for you, I just don't understand what it would take to get you there.

I have read your response. I looked for the facts and found none. What I found were your opinions. Now that is fine but they are neither facts or logic. Come on your better than that.

He's really not.

(07-15-2024, 10:40 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 09:18 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]That's actually a lot of emotion, but carry on.

You can't get emotion through text unless there's an "I feel" statement.
There is no emotion in that text. None.  Only a lack of reading comprehension based on refusal to engage with ideas that make you feel bad.

Nah.  You do have some robot like responses a lot of times, but that post of yours conveyed a level of seething rage.  I would bet I'm not the only one who picked up on it.  Demanding an apology for something is emotionally driven for instance.  And your conclusions require an emotional component to arrive at.  Word choice absolutely can affect how your message is received.  If you're instead trying to hide your emotional attachment to an argument in the future, choose your words more carefully or don't engage in the topic.

(07-15-2024, 11:34 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 10:40 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You can't get emotion through text unless there's an "I feel" statement.
There is no emotion in that text. None.  Only a lack of reading comprehension based on refusal to engage with ideas that make you feel bad.

Nah.  You do have some robot like responses a lot of times, but that post of yours conveyed a level of seething rage.  I would bet I'm not the only one who picked up on it.  Demanding an apology for something is emotionally driven for instance.  And your conclusions require an emotional component to arrive at.  Word choice absolutely can affect how your message is received.  If you're instead trying to hide your emotional attachment to an argument in the future, choose your words more carefully or don't engage in the topic.

You can catch a sense of "I really don't like this guy" in text but what you can't catch is "I'm angry as I write this."

(07-15-2024, 10:55 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 09:13 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Giving a man who still believes he won in 2020 four years to "fix" it so it doesn't happen again will undermine our election system and could easily mean the end of democracy. (Neither fact or logic is opinion) Or it could very easily mean a better election system.  Like having a 3rd party vote machine company have the only password into their system? Not saying anything inappropriate was done but that should not be allowed.

Trump had 8 weeks to plan the fiasco we now call January 6.  He's had 4 years to think about it and still won't apologize.  What is he going to try when he has four more years in power to create his next move? (Neither fact or logic is opinion)  And Pelosi had the time to place the requested security in place. Create a soft target and hope for the best?  Maybe he didn't apologize because he did no wrong? We would know based on the January 6th committee, however, in violation of policy they destroyed the records, why?

If that's not enough facts and logic for you, I just don't understand what it would take to get you there.

I have read your response. I looked for the facts and found none. What I found were your opinions. Now that is fine but they are neither facts or logic. Come on your better than that.

Fact: Trump still believes he won in 2020
Fact: He did not win

Logic: Given these two facts, he will try to change election procedures going forward if he becomes President.

Possible logical opinion 1: this threatens democracy.
Possible logical opinion 2: he won't be able to do anything because elections are run at the state level.

Here I can see room to have either opinion.

Fact: Trump had about 8 weeks to plan for January 6, whatever he was actually planning, that's how long he had to plan it.
Fact: Trump told his followers to go to the Capitol
Fact: Trump knew there was violence at the Capitol within minutes of his speech ending. 
Fact: Trump then waited three hours before telling them to be peaceful and two more hours before telling them to go home.
Fact: Trump still hasn't apologized for this

Logic: if Trump hadn't told the people gathered for his speech to go to the Capitol, the eventual crowd at the Capitol would have been much smaller, fewer cops would have been assaulted, and perhaps Pelosi's estimate of the security need would have been correct.

Logically justifiable opinion 1: Trump was primarily responsible for how far the violence went.
Logically justifiable opinion 2: Trump wanted the violence to continue for at least those three hours.
Logically justifiable opinion 3: the whole thing wasn't a serious threat, but if Trump had had more time he could have planned something more serious.

Here I see no room to form any logical positive opinion of what Trump is saying and what he did.

(07-15-2024, 12:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 10:55 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]I have read your response. I looked for the facts and found none. What I found were your opinions. Now that is fine but they are neither facts or logic. Come on your better than that.

Fact: Trump still believes he won in 2020
Fact: He did not win
Fact: Because the election was stolen through voter and election fraud.

Logic: Given these two  three facts, he will should try to change election procedures going forward if he becomes President.

Possible logical opinion 1: this threatens preserves democracy.
Possible logical opinion 2: he won't be able to do anything because elections are run at the state level corruption is far too deep.

Here I can see room to have either one opinion.

Fact: Trump had about 8 weeks to plan for January 6, whatever he was actually planning, that's how long he had to plan it.
Fact: Trump told his followers to go to the Capitol
Fact: Trump knew there was violence at the Capitol within minutes of his speech ending. 
Fact: Trump then waited three hours before telling them to be peaceful and two more hours before telling them to go home.
Fact: Trump still hasn't apologized for this
Fact: Trump wasn't wrong.

Logic: if Trump hadn't told the people gathered for his speech to go to the Capitol, the eventual crowd at the Capitol would have been much smaller, fewer cops would have been assaulted, and perhaps Pelosi's estimate of the security need would have been correct.

Logically justifiable opinion 1: Trump was primarily responsible for how far the violence went.
Logically justifiable opinion 2: Trump wanted the violence to continue for at least those three hours.
Logically justifiable opinion 3: the whole thing wasn't a serious threat, but if Trump had had more time he could have planned something more serious.

Here I see no room to form any logical positive opinion of what Trump is saying and what he did Mikesez thinks.

FTFY.

(07-15-2024, 12:20 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 12:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Fact: Trump still believes he won in 2020
Fact: He did not win
Fact: Because the election was stolen through voter and election fraud.

Logic: Given these two  three facts, he will should try to change election procedures going forward if he becomes President.

Possible logical opinion 1: this threatens preserves democracy.
Possible logical opinion 2: he won't be able to do anything because elections are run at the state level corruption is far too deep.

Here I can see room to have either one opinion.

Fact: Trump had about 8 weeks to plan for January 6, whatever he was actually planning, that's how long he had to plan it.
Fact: Trump told his followers to go to the Capitol
Fact: Trump knew there was violence at the Capitol within minutes of his speech ending. 
Fact: Trump then waited three hours before telling them to be peaceful and two more hours before telling them to go home.
Fact: Trump still hasn't apologized for this
Fact: Trump wasn't wrong.

Logic: if Trump hadn't told the people gathered for his speech to go to the Capitol, the eventual crowd at the Capitol would have been much smaller, fewer cops would have been assaulted, and perhaps Pelosi's estimate of the security need would have been correct.

Logically justifiable opinion 1: Trump was primarily responsible for how far the violence went.
Logically justifiable opinion 2: Trump wanted the violence to continue for at least those three hours.
Logically justifiable opinion 3: the whole thing wasn't a serious threat, but if Trump had had more time he could have planned something more serious.

Here I see no room to form any logical positive opinion of what Trump is saying and what he did Mikesez thinks.

FTFY.

Yes, with that one extra fact you inserted, all the subsequent logic and opinions are sound.

The problem is, that one fact is completely false.

In fact, if that one extra fact was true, why wasn't a patriot like you protesting in DC on January 6th?

(07-15-2024, 12:28 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 12:20 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]FTFY.

Yes, with that one extra fact you inserted, all the subsequent logic and opinions are sound.

The problem is, that one fact is completely false.

In fact, if that one extra fact was true, why wasn't a patriot like you protesting in DC on January 6th?

You can say it's false all you like, we all know how disconnected from reality you are, so it just further proves the factuality of the point. Frankly I didn't care enough to worry about protesting it, neither party represents me, so why bother if one or the other gets screwed? I'm definitely being pulled into a Trump vote this time around the way your people keep acting though! Of course since I live in Florida my vote doesn't really matter either way, as Trump is going to win in a landslide here, so I'll likely still just pull the lever for Chase to try and get our 3rd party numbers up.

(07-15-2024, 12:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 12:28 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, with that one extra fact you inserted, all the subsequent logic and opinions are sound.

The problem is, that one fact is completely false.

In fact, if that one extra fact was true, why wasn't a patriot like you protesting in DC on January 6th?

You can say it's false all you like, we all know how disconnected from reality you are, so it just further proves the factuality of the point. Frankly I didn't care enough to worry about protesting it, neither party represents me, so why bother if one or the other gets screwed? I'm definitely being pulled into a Trump vote this time around the way your people keep acting though! Of course since I live in Florida my vote doesn't really matter either way, as Trump is going to win in a landslide here, so I'll likely still just pull the lever for Chase to try and get our 3rd party numbers up.

If Biden actually stole the election, that would mean he could steal it again, and maybe next time the Libertarian candidate would be the victim.  If you allow a vote-rigger to go unpunished, you are throwing all of your future votes away, regardless of who rigged the vote and regardless of which party you want to vote for in the future.

This is how I know you don't actually take your own beliefs on 2020 seriously.  You're posing.

(07-15-2024, 12:50 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 12:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You can say it's false all you like, we all know how disconnected from reality you are, so it just further proves the factuality of the point. Frankly I didn't care enough to worry about protesting it, neither party represents me, so why bother if one or the other gets screwed? I'm definitely being pulled into a Trump vote this time around the way your people keep acting though! Of course since I live in Florida my vote doesn't really matter either way, as Trump is going to win in a landslide here, so I'll likely still just pull the lever for Chase to try and get our 3rd party numbers up.

If Biden actually stole the election, that would mean he could steal it again, and maybe next time the Libertarian candidate would be the victim.  If you allow a vote-rigger to go unpunished, you are throwing all of your future votes away, regardless of who rigged the vote and regardless of which party you want to vote for in the future.

This is how I know you don't actually take your own beliefs on 2020 seriously.  You're posing.

I tell you what I believe.

I believe the mail in ballots played a huge role in the outcome of hat election.  I have no doubt there was some corruption done with people mailing in ballots at home. I believe it was an ordinary election in 2020 that Trump would of won.  Again, the bureaucrats are great with hiding things so will probably never know.

I also believe your democratic party has done everything they can to Destroy Democracy and this election shows it. Your party has done everything it can to not have a fair election. The Democrats try a 3rd world strategy of locking up their opponent on bogus charges. Luckily the Supreme court has common sense and not like those left minded judges. Your political ideologues have called Trump Hitler and have straight out slandered bogus claims that he is going to destroy this country.  You have painted a monster in your fan base that is full of crazy woke people who struggle with mental illness.  Your liberal media is weaponizing these idiots and partially responsible for the Trump kill attempt Lately.  Your Democratic parties are letting illegals flood this country and rewarding this with financial aid, housing, and AMERICAN JOBS! The Long game is the DUMBOCRATS want to turn these illegals into voters.   I believe the Democratic party and people like them are so indoctrinated in your insane ideologies that you are incapable of rational thought.

Take almost every common sense idea and flip it around and that gives you the modern Democratic Party.  They even have the gull to float that old geezer Biden out there like he can make it another 4 years. My personal belief is the modern democratic party is full of insane ideologies while lacking in rational Thought in most cases.  Race and Identity trumps all in many while true content of their character matters little.

(07-15-2024, 12:50 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 12:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You can say it's false all you like, we all know how disconnected from reality you are, so it just further proves the factuality of the point. Frankly I didn't care enough to worry about protesting it, neither party represents me, so why bother if one or the other gets screwed? I'm definitely being pulled into a Trump vote this time around the way your people keep acting though! Of course since I live in Florida my vote doesn't really matter either way, as Trump is going to win in a landslide here, so I'll likely still just pull the lever for Chase to try and get our 3rd party numbers up.

If Biden actually stole the election, that would mean he could steal it again, and maybe next time the Libertarian candidate would be the victim.  If you allow a vote-rigger to go unpunished, you are throwing all of your future votes away, regardless of who rigged the vote and regardless of which party you want to vote for in the future.

This is how I know you don't actually take your own beliefs on 2020 seriously.  You're posing.

The key to stopping the steal is to make it Too Big to Rig, because there's absolutely no way to get the country united enough to address it. One party has no spine and the other has no integrity; not to mention the squish middle who are both. And you're wrong, I thought this government needed to be revolutioned years ago; going and doing some protest isn't going to do what needs done, it's going to be much more explosive than that.

(07-15-2024, 01:15 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 12:50 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]If Biden actually stole the election, that would mean he could steal it again, and maybe next time the Libertarian candidate would be the victim.  If you allow a vote-rigger to go unpunished, you are throwing all of your future votes away, regardless of who rigged the vote and regardless of which party you want to vote for in the future.

This is how I know you don't actually take your own beliefs on 2020 seriously.  You're posing.

I tell you what I believe.

I believe the mail in ballots played a huge role in the outcome of hat election.  I have no doubt there was some corruption done with people mailing in ballots at home. I believe it was an ordinary election in 2020 that Trump would of won.  Again, the bureaucrats are great with hiding things so will probably never know.

I also believe your democratic party has done everything they can to Destroy Democracy and this election shows it. Your party has done everything it can to not have a fair election. The Democrats try a 3rd world strategy of locking up their opponent on bogus charges. Luckily the Supreme court has common sense and not like those left minded judges.  Your political ideologues have called Trump Hitler and have straight out slandered bogus claims that he is going to destroy this country.  You have painted a monster in your fan base that is full of crazy woke people who struggle with mental illness.  Your liberal media is weaponizing these idiots and partially responsible for the Trump kill attempt Lately.  Your Democratic parties are letting illegals flood this country and rewarding this with financial aid, housing, and AMERICAN JOBS! The Long game is the DUMBOCRATS want to turn these illegals into voters.   I believe the Democratic party and people like them are so indoctrinated in your insane ideologies that you are incapable of rational thought.

Take almost every common sense idea and flip it around and that gives you the modern Democratic Party.  They even have the gull to float that old geezer Biden out there like he can make it another 4 years. My personal belief is the modern democratic party is full of insane ideologies while lacking in rational Thought in most cases.  Race and Identity trumps all in many while true content of their character matters little.

Of course mail in ballots played a huge role.  Trump probably would have won without mail in ballots.
But that doesn't mean the election was rigged or fraudulent.  Those mail in votes, except for a miniscule number of exceptions, were from real people voting their real preference.
You're right that prosecuting your opponent is a third world democracy undermining strategy, but that doesn't mean everyone who prosecuted their opponent is undermining democracy.  As Republican members of Congress told us during Trump's first impeachment, being a political candidate doesn't make you immune to prosecution either.  Candidates are just regular people.  They should be prosecuted if there is probable cause.  The end.  By the way, Trump tried to prosecute Biden.  That's why he was impeached in the first place.

---

(07-15-2024, 01:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 12:50 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]If Biden actually stole the election, that would mean he could steal it again, and maybe next time the Libertarian candidate would be the victim.  If you allow a vote-rigger to go unpunished, you are throwing all of your future votes away, regardless of who rigged the vote and regardless of which party you want to vote for in the future.

This is how I know you don't actually take your own beliefs on 2020 seriously.  You're posing.

The key to stopping the steal is to make it Too Big to Rig, because there's absolutely no way to get the country united enough to address it. One party has no spine and the other has no integrity; not to mention the squish middle who are both. And you're wrong, I thought this government needed to be revolutioned years ago; going and doing some protest isn't going to do what needs done, it's going to be much more explosive than that.

The last unicorn died long ago.
You say I'm not engaged with reality, look at yourself first.
I'm going to tune you out for a while, no hard feelings.

(07-15-2024, 03:11 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 01:15 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]I tell you what I believe.

I believe the mail in ballots played a huge role in the outcome of hat election.  I have no doubt there was some corruption done with people mailing in ballots at home. I believe it was an ordinary election in 2020 that Trump would of won.  Again, the bureaucrats are great with hiding things so will probably never know.

I also believe your democratic party has done everything they can to Destroy Democracy and this election shows it. Your party has done everything it can to not have a fair election. The Democrats try a 3rd world strategy of locking up their opponent on bogus charges. Luckily the Supreme court has common sense and not like those left minded judges.  Your political ideologues have called Trump Hitler and have straight out slandered bogus claims that he is going to destroy this country.  You have painted a monster in your fan base that is full of crazy woke people who struggle with mental illness.  Your liberal media is weaponizing these idiots and partially responsible for the Trump kill attempt Lately.  Your Democratic parties are letting illegals flood this country and rewarding this with financial aid, housing, and AMERICAN JOBS! The Long game is the DUMBOCRATS want to turn these illegals into voters.   I believe the Democratic party and people like them are so indoctrinated in your insane ideologies that you are incapable of rational thought.

Take almost every common sense idea and flip it around and that gives you the modern Democratic Party.  They even have the gull to float that old geezer Biden out there like he can make it another 4 years. My personal belief is the modern democratic party is full of insane ideologies while lacking in rational Thought in most cases.  Race and Identity trumps all in many while true content of their character matters little.

Of course mail in ballots played a huge role.  Trump probably would have won without mail in ballots.
But that doesn't mean the election was rigged or fraudulent.  Those mail in votes, except for a miniscule number of exceptions, were from real people voting their real preference.
You're right that prosecuting your opponent is a third world democracy undermining strategy, but that doesn't mean everyone who prosecuted their opponent is undermining democracy.  As Republican members of Congress told us during Trump's first impeachment, being a political candidate doesn't make you immune to prosecution either.  Candidates are just regular people.  They should be prosecuted if there is probable cause.  The end.  By the way, Trump tried to prosecute Biden.  That's why he was impeached in the first place.

---

(07-15-2024, 01:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The key to stopping the steal is to make it Too Big to Rig, because there's absolutely no way to get the country united enough to address it. One party has no spine and the other has no integrity; not to mention the squish middle who are both. And you're wrong, I thought this government needed to be revolutioned years ago; going and doing some protest isn't going to do what needs done, it's going to be much more explosive than that.

The last unicorn died long ago.
You say I'm not engaged with reality, look at yourself first.
I'm going to tune you out for a while, no hard feelings.

Mike they purposely waited until the election year to bring up the charges.  They "trumped" up smaller crimes to Felonies to put him in jail.  The prosecutors and judges have a history of Trump Derangement syndrome and was not partisan in their judgment.  That is why the Supreme Court had to step in to put an end to this injustice.  They weaponized the Justice system but you are too blind too see it.

(07-15-2024, 12:28 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 12:20 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]FTFY.

Yes, with that one extra fact you inserted, all the subsequent logic and opinions are sound.

The problem is, that one fact is completely false.

In fact, if that one extra fact was true, why wasn't a patriot like you protesting in DC on January 6th?

Dude, repeating the same opinion over and over does not make it a fact. Until, when you are challenged you provide proof it is an opinion. Second item, Logic. That is your logic based on your opinions. These opinions may not be shared by everyone.

(07-15-2024, 03:43 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 12:28 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, with that one extra fact you inserted, all the subsequent logic and opinions are sound.

The problem is, that one fact is completely false.

In fact, if that one extra fact was true, why wasn't a patriot like you protesting in DC on January 6th?

Dude, repeating the same opinion over and over does not make it a fact. Until, when you are challenged you provide proof it is an opinion. Second item, Logic. That is your logic based on your opinions. These opinions may not be shared by everyone.

Opinions never become facts.

I pointed out which facts I used to form my opinion.  Those facts are in the public record. In theory you could disprove one of the facts but that would get into the conspiracy theory realm.

My logic was based only on the facts presented.  There may be other relevant facts, and there may be more logical connections, or new facts might rule out logical connections previously drawn, but the connections I drew are valid for the facts I included.

My opinions are supported by the facts and logic presented.  There may be other opinions you could form, especially if you add more facts and more logic, or if you prove one of the facts false.

(07-15-2024, 04:26 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 03:43 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, repeating the same opinion over and over does not make it a fact. Until, when you are challenged you provide proof it is an opinion. Second item, Logic. That is your logic based on your opinions. These opinions may not be shared by everyone.

Opinions never become facts.

I pointed out which facts I used to form my opinion.  Those facts are in the public record. In theory you could disprove one of the facts but that would get into the conspiracy theory realm.

My logic was based only on the facts presented.  There may be other relevant facts, and there may be more logical connections, or new facts might rule out logical connections previously drawn, but the connections I drew are valid for the facts I included.

My opinions are supported by the facts and logic presented.  There may be other opinions you could form, especially if you add more facts and more logic, or if you prove one of the facts false.

Lol.

Legendary sports broadcaster Bob Costas lashes out at Democrats for 'gaslighting' America about Joe Biden (msn.com)


...'That one atrocious night was simply writ-large what could be seen for years and years, that he is in serious decline,' Costas told CNN. 
'This has been so overwhelmingly obvious for so long. You don’t need a degree in public policy from Harvard to see it and to say it – if you’re willing to say it – anymore than you need a degree from MIT to say two plus two is four. And it makes you wonder whether we’ve been gaslit by the Democrats.'...

(07-15-2024, 06:55 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Legendary sports broadcaster Bob Costas lashes out at Democrats for 'gaslighting' America about Joe Biden (msn.com)


...'That one atrocious night was simply writ-large what could be seen for years and years, that he is in serious decline,' Costas told CNN. 
'This has been so overwhelmingly obvious for so long. You don’t need a degree in public policy from Harvard to see it and to say it – if you’re willing to say it – anymore than you need a degree from MIT to say two plus two is four. And it makes you wonder whether we’ve been gaslit by the Democrats.'...

Do not believe your lying eyes and common sense. It was all deep fakes made up by those back woods Trump people. Remember?

(07-15-2024, 04:26 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-15-2024, 03:43 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, repeating the same opinion over and over does not make it a fact. Until, when you are challenged you provide proof it is an opinion. Second item, Logic. That is your logic based on your opinions. These opinions may not be shared by everyone.

Opinions never become facts.

I pointed out which facts I used to form my opinion.  Those facts are in the public record. In theory you could disprove one of the facts but that would get into the conspiracy theory realm.

My logic was based only on the facts presented.  There may be other relevant facts, and there may be more logical connections, or new facts might rule out logical connections previously drawn, but the connections I drew are valid for the facts I included.

My opinions are supported by the facts and logic presented.  There may be other opinions you could form, especially if you add more facts and more logic, or if you prove one of the facts false.

Here is a FACT for you.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...r-BB1nYWK0