Quote:He put the ball up more than 40 times on Sunday. Interceptions are bound to happen when you're not only throwing the ball, but trying to get it beyond the dink and dunk type passes people complained about for years here. His interceptions are a byproduct of a young player who is being asked to basically carry an offense that's struggling to create a running game, and is suspect in protecting the QB.
People want to throw up their hands and give up on a QB who is on pace to set or come close to franchise records for attempts, yards, and touchdowns. This is why the Jaguars fan base is laughed at. Outside of Jacksonville, others see the progression, and recognize that his mistakes are about much more than his own skill set.
The guy who is the all time leader in interceptions in the league is Brett Favre, and he holds that distinguish by a wide margin over #2. He's also #2 in league history for TD passes. Favre was a guy who was more or less a gambler, and more often than not it paid off. I'll take that from Bortles.
Yeah, except he doesn't have Brett's arm. If he imitates Brett's decision making without the ability to make the same throws, he wouldn't be Favre...he'd be Jake Plummer.
I don't know why we keep making the argument that Bortles is good because he will be setting all these franchise records. That isn't saying much for the Jaguars. We are a young team that hasn't really ever had an elite quarterback. Brunell was decent in his day but would be nothing compared to what the standard is now. We were also much more run heavy in the past. Breaking franchise records is nothing in this city because of how young we are. Now, if Blake would be breaking records in more historical teams like Pitt, Dallas, Green Bay, or San Fran that would be different. But Jax? Meh.
This isn't to take away from his accomplishments. Obviously the guy is doing well in some areas this year. I'm just not saying he is this elite quarterback because he is breaking records held by our team.
Quote:I don't know why we keep making the argument that Bortles is good because he will be setting all these franchise records. That isn't saying much for the Jaguars. We are a young team that hasn't really ever had an elite quarterback. Brunell was decent in his day but would be nothing compared to what the standard is now. We were also much more run heavy in the past. Breaking franchise records is nothing in this city because of how young we are. Now, if Blake would be breaking records in more historical teams like Pitt, Dallas, Green Bay, or San Fran that would be different. But Jax? Meh.
This isn't to take away from his accomplishments. Obviously the guy is doing well in some areas this year. I'm just not saying he is this elite quarterback because he is breaking records held by our team.
Hmm... seems you missed the point on purpose.
Bortles isn't "good" because he might break some rather weak records set by Jaguar QBs of past...
He is good because he is good.
Oh and by the way, he'll be breaking those records in year 2. Not too shabby, considering what MOST year 2 QBs look like.
I'm not sure anyone has called him elite... a lot of people have said he is good... will be great... maybe a few even said he could be elite....
If he improves as much from year 2 to year 3... we could be seeing a top 3 QB next year.
And not just in fantasy football.
"We" keep making the argument that Bortles is good because he is. Good enough to make up for other areas of weakness? Not yet... good enough we can live with multiple INTs or pick sixes? Absolutely not...
But the kid is still young... and kind of raw.
Can't see how anyone can make the argument he isn't good.
Using stats to back up an opinion doesn't make the opinion, or the stats, wrong.
Quote:I don't know why we keep making the argument that Bortles is good because he will be setting all these franchise records. That isn't saying much for the Jaguars. We are a young team that hasn't really ever had an elite quarterback. Brunell was decent in his day but would be nothing compared to what the standard is now. We were also much more run heavy in the past. Breaking franchise records is nothing in this city because of how young we are. Now, if Blake would be breaking records in more historical teams like Pitt, Dallas, Green Bay, or San Fran that would be different. But Jax? Meh.
This isn't to take away from his accomplishments. Obviously the guy is doing well in some areas this year. I'm just not saying he is this elite quarterback because he is breaking records held by our team.
I still believe Mark was the best QB we had prior to his knee injuries. The thing that people are ignoring is that...this is just a different NFL. Its a passing league now.
4000 yards used to be the benchmark for a good season. Two years ago, we had 9 hit that benchmark (with two going over 5k). Last season, we had 11 hit 4k yards with a 12th barely missing it. This year is a bit of a down year, but you still have Brady, Rivers, and Palmer. Brees will probably hit it despite missing games.Eli might. Ben would have if he didn't get hit by injuries. Stafford, Blake, and Carr has chances too.
When you have over 10 QBs hitting 4k, then that benchmark needs to go out the window.
Quote:I still believe Mark was the best QB we had prior to his knee injuries. The thing that people are ignoring is that...this is just a different NFL. Its a passing league now.
4000 yards used to be the benchmark for a good season. Two years ago, we had 9 hit that benchmark (with two going over 5k). Last season, we had 11 hit 4k yards with a 12th barely missing it. This year is a bit of a down year, but you still have Brady, Rivers, and Palmer. Brees will probably hit it despite missing games.Eli might. Ben would have if he didn't get hit by injuries. Stafford, Blake, and Carr has chances too.
When you have over 10 QBs hitting 4k, then that benchmark needs to go out the window.
I truly believe Bortles can be a 5k passer next year.
Quote:Yeah, except he doesn't have Brett's arm. If he imitates Brett's decision making without the ability to make the same throws, he wouldn't be Favre...he'd be Jake Plummer.
He doesn't need a bazooka for an arm. He's got plenty of arm to be very effective in the NFL. Bortles is far closer to Favre than he is Plummer.
Quote:He doesn't need a bazooka for an arm. He's got plenty of arm to be very effective in the NFL. Bortles is far closer to Favre than he is Plummer.
I remember this LSU QB that could throw a football over them mountains.....
Oehser was on the Mike Dempsey radio show yesterday (Jaguars Today, I believe - at around the 50 minute mark on the jaguars.com stream) and alluded to Bortles changing plays from run to pass in the red zone. Oehser said more than the INT, he was concerned with Bortles' recognition and diagnosing of the defence in the red zone. He wasn't overly critical of Bortles' play and acknowledged the big strides he's made this year. But definitely a different take from his O-Zone drivel.
I consider myself a realist when it comes to Bortles - I've been impressed with his progress this year, but I also recognize he has work to do. Oehser's comments were pretty interesting.
Quote:I don't know why we keep making the argument that Bortles is good because he will be setting all these franchise records. That isn't saying much for the Jaguars. We are a young team that hasn't really ever had an elite quarterback. Brunell was decent in his day but would be nothing compared to what the standard is now. We were also much more run heavy in the past. Breaking franchise records is nothing in this city because of how young we are. Now, if Blake would be breaking records in more historical teams like Pitt, Dallas, Green Bay, or San Fran that would be different. But Jax? Meh.
This isn't to take away from his accomplishments. Obviously the guy is doing well in some areas this year. I'm just not saying he is this elite quarterback because he is breaking records held by our team.
A quarterback breaking that mark in year 2 is pretty impressive. We have thrown the ball enough and had some prolific offenses in the past so for him to put us in that position with receivers as young as they are, and an offensive line that is not top notch is pretty impressive.
Kane made many good points following your post as well....nobody is saying he is elite here, we are saying he is pretty darn good and has a chance to be really good. When I read crap threads like this and hear idiots at games saying they should put in Henne I worry about our fan base.
The "other" benchmark that has been used for QBs is 7 YPA, though even this might need to be adjusted. Regardless, this is a benchmark where Blake does very poorly. He's improved from his rookie season, but it's still not there. I think it is telling that despite being top 10 in yards, yards per completion, TDs, and just outside of top 10 in yards/game...his YPA is near the bottom of the QBs this season.
Quote:I don't know why we keep making the argument that Bortles is good because he will be setting all these franchise records. That isn't saying much for the Jaguars. We are a young team that hasn't really ever had an elite quarterback. Brunell was decent in his day but would be nothing compared to what the standard is now. We were also much more run heavy in the past. Breaking franchise records is nothing in this city because of how young we are. Now, if Blake would be breaking records in more historical teams like Pitt, Dallas, Green Bay, or San Fran that would be different. But Jax? Meh.
This isn't to take away from his accomplishments. Obviously the guy is doing well in some areas this year. I'm just not saying he is this elite quarterback because he is breaking records held by our team.
Who is saying he's elite?
I'm going to assume that you haven't been a fan of this team for very long. Considering how prolific some of the early offenses were, for a guy in his sophomore season to be in a position to set franchise records that have stood for several years is a testimony that his arrow is pointed in the right direction. The mistakes he's making are also to be expected for a guy who is still a relatively young QB in the NFL. Considering the number of passes he's being asked to make on a per game basis, the odds are always going to be staked in favor of interceptions happening, especially when you look at the fact that we're not running some Tom Brady type offense where he's throwing the ball 5 yards at a time. A
Quote:He doesn't need a bazooka for an arm. He's got plenty of arm to be very effective in the NFL. Bortles is far closer to Favre than he is Plummer.
He's got plenty of arm to be an effective NFL quarterback. He doesn't have an arm to try the throws that Favre got away with.
Quote:The "other" benchmark that has been used for QBs is 7 YPA, though even this might need to be adjusted. Regardless, this is a benchmark where Blake does very poorly. He's improved from his rookie season, but it's still not there. I think it is telling that despite being top 10 in yards, yards per completion, TDs, and just outside of top 10 in yards/game...his YPA is near the bottom of the QBs this season.
The completion % and YPA need to improve, and should as he progresses. Considering the number of drops he's dealt with this year, some of his statistical challenges are as much the result of the targets as they are the guy throwing the ball.
Quote: He's got plenty of arm to be an effective NFL quarterback. He doesn't have an arm to try the throws that Favre got away with.
Nobody is expecting him to be a carbon copy of Brett Favre, but I guess you live in literal land.
Quote:Nobody is expecting him to be a carbon copy of Brett Favre, but I guess you live in literal land.
So when you say "Favre was a guy who was more or less a gambler, and more often than not it paid off. I'll take that from Bortles.", how exactly do you want that to be taken?
You compare his mindset to Favre, and that you'd "take that" from him, ignoring the fact that he doesn't have the elite arm that Favre had.
That's like comparing a basketball player to Kobe Bryant's mindset of taking contested fadeaways despite that player not being as tall, as athletic, and not as good as Kobe. You don't mind Kobe taking those shots. You frown when Nick Young takes the same shots.
When you have a player who has the mindset of one of the greatest risk takers in the game in Favre, you need the requisite ability to MAKE those risks worthwhile. Blake doesn't have that ability. And unless he can change his mindset, he'll always be more turnover prone than you'd like.
Quote:Nobody is expecting him to be a carbon copy of Brett Favre, but I guess you live in literal land.
Not sure why you're wasting time on this, in a country dominated by fantasy football fans and the media alike expect "instant" success from these young players, especially QB's. There was a day and time where most people didn't expect QB's to really take off until year 4-5, now days if a guy isn't throwing for 4500 yards and 40 TD's by year two they label him a bust, it's ridiculous and unrealistic. How many times will we hear the proverbial "there isn't an Andrew Luck" in next years draft, such a short-sighted and ignorant way of looking at things. I've had a chance to watch Blaine Gabbert's last 3 games in San Francisco, and while it's a short sample size the guy is remarkably improved, who would've thought that a guy who was labeled as "raw" coming out of college needed to time to acclimate himself to the speed of the NFL game, pro concepts, and all of the other things that prevent young "raw" QB's from having instant success at this level. We live in a world where everyone wants instant gratification, football is merely a microcosm of that sad reality.
Quote:The "other" benchmark that has been used for QBs is 7 YPA, though even this might need to be adjusted. Regardless, this is a benchmark where Blake does very poorly. He's improved from his rookie season, but it's still not there. I think it is telling that despite being top 10 in yards, yards per completion, TDs, and just outside of top 10 in yards/game...his YPA is near the bottom of the QBs this season.
This season in particular, I think it's important to mostly look at numbers that are averages per-game.
Rank positioning for total yards, TDs, INTs are going to be skewed higher when compared to the rest of the league.
Meaning: A quite large number of QBs this season have not played all their teams games. In fact, a good few number of QBs have missed half or more of the season.
Significant amount of time missed:
Romo
Luck
Roethlisberger
Kaepernick (lol)
Josh McCown
Hoyer
At least 1 game or more missed:
Peyton Manning
Tyrod Taylor
Drew Brees
Cutler
Flacco (will end up missing 6 games)
Bradford (will end up missing a few)
Foles
Mariota
3 qtrs of a game missed:
Carr
Fitzpatrick
Idk if I'm forgetting anyone. But, a significant amount of starting QBs have lost a chance for passing numbers due to injury. Almost 1/3 of the league's QBs will have much lower numbers.
Personally, I'll take overall rankings with a grain of salt. However, I may still compare overall rankings to players that have played the whole season.
Otherwise, Yards/game, YPA, Completion %, 3rd down conversion rates, etc. will be the types of things that still look very important.
That said, the Jags are in good shape at QB. He needs to get better at some things, but I expect he will.
Quote:So when you say "Favre was a guy who was more or less a gambler, and more often than not it paid off. I'll take that from Bortles.", how exactly do you want that to be taken?
You compare his mindset to Favre, and that you'd "take that" from him, ignoring the fact that he doesn't have the elite arm that Favre had.
That's like comparing a basketball player to Kobe Bryant's mindset of taking contested fadeaways despite that player not being as tall, as athletic, and not as good as Kobe. You don't mind Kobe taking those shots. You frown when Nick Young takes the same shots.
When you have a player who has the mindset of one of the greatest risk takers in the game in Favre, you need the requisite ability to MAKE those risks worthwhile. Blake doesn't have that ability. And unless he can change his mindset, he'll always be more turnover prone than you'd like.
My point was pretty clear, but you're simply not getting it. I'm not saying Bortles is Favre. I'm pointing out that Favre made more mistakes during his career than any other QB in the history of the league, and yet he's still considered a great QB because for all of his mistakes, he also had extreme success. It has nothing to do with who has the bigger arm, but for some reason, this eludes you. It's about the mindset that the player who is willing to take the risks is going to tend to make more mistakes, especially when he's taking those risks because he's trying to carry a team that's struggling elsewhere. As long as the successes are more prevalent than the mistakes, he's successful. It's really not that difficult to understand.
Keep living in the literal world. Grind those gears.
Quote:I remember this LSU QB that could throw a football over them mountains.....
SEC teams don't produce real QBs.....
Ever hear of Peyton and Eli?