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I can't read all this tonight, but we are really lucky to have a young Quarterback with the upside that Bortles has.

 

If you really don't see it? I would say you are pretty new to understanding the QB position, or maybe watching the NFL as a whole. He has an "IT" factor ... Can it develope? I think it can.

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 He has an "IT" factor ... Can it develope? I think it can.

 

He also seems to have the "Can't get through a game without making a couple of really bad decisions" factor.  Can it be overcome?  I hope so.  If not, he'll never be much more than average.

Quote:Scared he's taking your position?

 

LOL.

 

That was the response I had typed, almost verbatim.  But I never hit "Add Reply".

Quote:He also seems to have the "Can't get through a game without making a couple of really bad decisions" factor.  Can it be overcome?  I hope so.  If not, he'll never be much more than average.

Seems impossible that he wouldn't improve if you notice the improvement he's made from year 1 to 2. Would be very odd to think this is his best and will just stay exactly as is for the rest of his career, no?

 

If he can't overcome the mistakes he's making, in his second season in the NFL at the hardest position in sports, yes, we may have a problem. But, it's unlikely he won't eventually "IMPROVE".

Quote:In years past I would agree with the previous QBs % and YPA being low being blamed on the receiving group. Not this year. The amount of throws that ARob and even Hurns and Walters have flat out bailed out Blake evens it out.

I guess using that logic we should just ignore the drops that both of them had early in the season in order to assure that we can continue blaming Bortles, right?

Quote:I guess using that logic we should just ignore the drops that both of them had early in the season in order to assure that we can continue blaming Bortles, right?

There was one game where there was blatant drops not only by the receivers, but the TEs. In the games since then, our WRs especially ARob has bailed out Bortles time and time again.

 

My point is, in years past our WRs weren't good enough to "bail out" our QBs. Which means that while they are dropping good throws, they aren't making plays to catch bad throws.

 

Our WRs this year, ARob especially has more than made enough plays to make up for what drops he had early in the season. Same with Hurns. Or do you choose to not credit the receiving group just to not "blame" the quarterback?

Quote:I can't read all this tonight, but we are really lucky to have a young Quarterback with the upside that Bortles has.

 

If you really don't see it? I would say you are pretty new to understanding the QB position, or maybe watching the NFL as a whole. He has an "IT" factor ... Can it develope? I think it can.

 

He's got "it" and he has shown he has the tools to play. We wouldn't have been in the games we've been in, including the losses without his play. These games would of been ugly without him.

Quote:He also seems to have the "Can't get through a game without making a couple of really bad decisions" factor.  Can it be overcome?  I hope so.  If not, he'll never be much more than average.

Young QB's who pull the trigger do. He has shown he his going to be a very, very good one.

I'm convinced.


Time to draft another QB. Time to start over. I agree, to many mistakes, and other QBs, even the elite, like Rogers, don't make silly mistakes against elite NFL talent.


Other QBs do not make mistakes, like Bortles makes...nope.


Time to move on.


If you would have told me before the season Bortles would have a 22/13 line, for the year, - the entire year, I would have said, "Unacceptable. Might as well cut him now or trade him for a 5th."


I'm all on board with this now.

Quote:There was one game where there was blatant drops not only by the receivers, but the TEs. In the games since then, our WRs especially ARob has bailed out Bortles time and time again.


My point is, in years past our WRs weren't good enough to "bail out" our QBs. Which means that while they are dropping good throws, they aren't making plays to catch bad throws.


Our WRs this year, ARob especially has more than made enough plays to make up for what drops he had early in the season. Same with Hurns. Or do you choose to not credit the receiving group just to not "blame" the quarterback?

Agreed. ARod would be leading the NFL by 10 catches and 400 yards but for ineptness at QB. Hurns would, clearly, be right behind.

Quote:There was one game where there was blatant drops not only by the receivers, but the TEs. In the games since then, our WRs especially ARob has bailed out Bortles time and time again.

 

My point is, in years past our WRs weren't good enough to "bail out" our QBs. Which means that while they are dropping good throws, they aren't making plays to catch bad throws.

 

Our WRs this year, ARob especially has more than made enough plays to make up for what drops he had early in the season. Same with Hurns. Or do you choose to not credit the receiving group just to not "blame" the quarterback?

 

I'm an equal opportunist when it comes to spreading the credit and the blame.  No QB is perfect, and has to rely on his receivers to make plays when the ball is in their range even if it's not perfectly delivered.  To try to make that an indictment of the QB and his progression is ridiculous.  Saying the receivers bailed him out is only intended to diminish the QB.  The reality is, if Bortles is putting passes where they are able to make plays, he's doing his job.

Eliminate the situational interceptions. I get it. Interceptions happen, but the time has come for Bortles to grow up and learn how to pick and choose his shots. Take care of the ball inside of the 2 minutes, live to play another down, its OK to check it down or throw the ball away instead of forcing a pass on 2nd down.

Quote:I'm an equal opportunist when it comes to spreading the credit and the blame.  No QB is perfect, and has to rely on his receivers to make plays when the ball is in their range even if it's not perfectly delivered.  To try to make that an indictment of the QB and his progression is ridiculous.  Saying the receivers bailed him out is only intended to diminish the QB.  The reality is, if Bortles is putting passes where they are able to make plays, he's doing his job.

 

Yet you have no problem assigning the blame of his low % comp to the receivers "drops"?

 

Quote:Considering the number of drops he's dealt with this year, some of his statistical challenges are as much the result of the targets as they are the guy throwing the ball.
 

 

When fact is, his low % completion isn't because our receivers are dropping balls...it's because Blake holds on to the ball trying to make the big play rather than taking what the defense gives him. Our top receivers Yards per catch reflects this. Our QB's yards per completion reflects this. His sack numbers reflect this. And his Yards per attempts reflects this as well. All of those four stats are tied together.

 

His completion % isn't down because receivers are dropping balls...it's because he refuses (or doesn't see) to take the check down. I'm not saying he needs to be a checkdown machine like Henne or Garrard. But him knowing when to give up IS the next step in his development...both from improving his completion %, efficiency, and lowering his mistakes.

Quote:Yet you have no problem assigning the blame of his low % comp to the receivers "drops"?

 

 

When fact is, his low % completion isn't because our receivers are dropping balls...it's because Blake holds on to the ball trying to make the big play rather than taking what the defense gives him. Our top receivers Yards per catch reflects this. Our QB's yards per completion reflects this. His sack numbers reflect this. And his Yards per attempts reflects this as well. All of those four stats are tied together.

 

His completion % isn't down because receivers are dropping balls...it's because he refuses (or doesn't see) to take the check down. I'm not saying he needs to be a checkdown machine like Henne or Garrard. But him knowing when to give up IS the next step in his development...both from improving his completion %, efficiency, and lowering his mistakes.

This is where we differ.  I don't assign the blame on his low % on drops to receivers.  I've been pretty clear that there's plenty of blame to go around.  You're clearly someone who needs one person to blame.  I prefer to look at the bigger picture and recognize that football is a team sport.   If you looked up the ranking for dropped passes in the league, the Jaguars are in the top 10 in the league for drops.  Hurns and Robinson may have cleaned up their issues from early in the season, but they're not the only guys who are being targeted, so SOMEONE is dropping those passes.  Bortles can't do that for himself as much as I'm sure you wish he could.

 

There have been plenty of drops during the course of the entire season.  These have absolutely impacted his completion %, but you clearly discount those in order to dismiss the progress Bortles has made.  If the team simply cleaned up the drops, Bortles completion % would jump by 5% to 62% completion rate.  Not great, but better than what we're seeing currently.  It would be better than Aaron Rodgers, and only a couple of points behind Tom Brady.   

 

I don't have a problem with a QB holding on to the ball trying to make a play as long as it's not resulting in more forced errors or sacks.  Compared to his rookie season, things have improved significantly there.  I'm guessing you probably complained about David Garrard and Chad Henne and their propensity to play captain checkdown the majority of the time they were on the field.  We finally get a QB who goes through his progressions and doesn't opt for a quick dump off and you're not happy with that.  You ignore any progress he has made, including in giving up on plays when there's nothing there for him.  We're seeing Bortles throwing the ball away more, or pulling the ball down and running with it.  The team is averaging 3 sacks a game this year vs. more than 4.5 a game last year with Bortles as the starter, and it's not because the line is doing a better job of protecting him. He's just gotten better at avoiding the sack and making plays.

 

I'm not going to waste the time digging into it, but I'm betting you didn't want the team to draft Bortles, and because they did, you filter everything through that bias when you're evaluating where he's at with his development.  Probably had a Bridgewater poster ready to put on your ceiling.

Quote:I feel like going back and reading your defense of Gus Bradley. I find it odd that you feel the need to ignore certain stats and try to temper the obvious enthusiasm for a qb that in his 2nd year is showing that he is capable of being a franchise qb, while at the same time ignoring all the facts that show a legitimate concern for a coach that isn't getting the best out of this team.


How do reconcile that? What allows you to have questions about bb5 and yet not have any concerns about Bradley? To me it's the exact opposite. Blake has done well enough to be excited about next year, while the way Bradley has handled this season, I am dreading the idea of him coaching the Jaguars in 2016.

I believe that many (if not most) of the problems are due to players not performing. That's not a coach issue, that's a player issue. Bortles throwing picks in every game is not something Gus can control. Has Gus contributed to the badness of this team? Absolutely. But I believe that much of the blame is the players themselves.

Bortles will be the best draft pick in franchise history. Book it. Worry about the bums on defense.

Quote:Bortles will be the best draft pick in franchise history. Book it. Worry about the bums on defense.

With the exception of Fred Taylor and MAYBE Jones-Drew (idk, maybe),,


Bortles is already the best draft pick.

Quote:With the exception of Fred Taylor and MAYBE Jones-Drew (idk, maybe),,


Bortles is already the best draft pick.

I would include Boselli and Taylor.  MJD?  Nah. Close, but not the best draft pick.  Bortles has the potential to be in the top 3 though when the dust settles.  If he lives up to it, good things are coming.

Quote:I would include Boselli and Taylor. MJD? Nah. Close, but not the best draft pick. Bortles has the potential to be in the top 3 though when the dust settles. If he lives up to it, good things are coming.

Oh yeah, can't believe I forgot Boselli! DUH!


Boselli and Taylor, yup.

Quote:He's got "it" and he has shown he has the tools to play. We wouldn't have been in the games we've been in, including the losses without his play. These games would of been ugly without him.

Young QB's who pull the trigger do. He has shown he his going to be a very, very good one.

 

 A few of those games were ugly and his mistakes, as much as any other player's,  contributed to the ugliness.  Yes, he's shown the potential to be a very, very good one, but he's still a long ways from that point.  I hope he gets there, but I'm not yet convinced it's simply a question of when, rather than if.

 

P.S.  Tell him the next time he pulls the trigger, do it from behind the line of scrimmage.

I really do find him hard to defend...Could lose again totally his fault of course