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It looks bad on the university, hardly pc gone mad. I'm not sure how many businesses would want to have signs like this hung up...


Also they aren't even funny.

Quote:Here's something to think about... why not address and solve the problem rather than deal with the outcome?

Ok, here's the problem: young women are being raped on college campuses.

 

Here's one major contributing factor: fraternities have a history of being involved in those rapes, frequently (but not always) through drugging them.

 

Why do frats do this? Because they're [BLEEP] young men, sure, but also because a culture of "we'll do what we want to to women on this campus" exists in frat houses nationwide. Some send out emails detailing how to drug and rape a woman. Some have color-coded systems for how to drug them. Some revel in their reputation as rape houses, thinking it adds some kind of mystique to their frat. Some hang signs that, at the very least, are taunting incoming female students and, at worst, are suggestive of rape.

 

How do we solve the problem? Address the culture head on. If a report of sexual misconduct comes out of a frat house, suspend the frat while an investigation takes place. If everyone is cleared, fine. Life goes on. If anyone in the frat is found guilty of sexual assault taking place in the frat house or at a fraternity-sanctioned event, that frat is shut down for good. No appeal rights. And while you're at it, forcibly clean up the image of frats. No more massive co-ed keg parties, no more emails detailing how to drug and rape women, and no more hanging signs that a reasonably person could interpret as being sexually threatening from your balcony. Basically, if a frat member has to ask himself if it'll get the frat in trouble, he shouldn't do it.

 

I'm not so naive as to believe that the college rape problem stems solely from fraternities, but a significant portion of it does. If solving that problem involves systematically dismantling Greek life and either rebuilding it in a new image or leaving it dead, then so be it. Fraternities in the US originally existed as social clubs formed around fellowship, and engaging primarily in discussions, debates and literary exercise. They're still based (loosely) around fellowship today, but instead they specialize in keggers and orgies. The vast majority of them add nothing to their colleges anymore except for rape allegations and a reason for prospective students not to go there.

Quote:Why do men rape women? How do we stop them from doing it? It's awful but how do stop people from doing things like that? I think with frats its about the power and the superior mentality. At least that's the impression I get from friends that were in frats. 

 

So should the university do nothing to this frat for being in poor taste and inflammatory to a serious issue (at best) or should they  ignore it and instead focus on stopping people from raping. You point is hard to figure out here.  

 

I think that with frats it's all about young men coming out of adolescence that don't know a whole lot about "sex in the real world" so to speak.

 

Think for a second what rape really is.  It's a violent act not a sexual act.  I think that these kids in fraternities are not attempting a violent act, it's all about the sex which they know little to nothing about (both the males and the females).  That's why it occurs.  I would bet that some of these encounters are the first time that they have ever experienced sex at all (again both males and females).

 

What could be done to solve the problem?  My first thought is education.  Where does that education come from?  Both from earlier experience at school and/or the parents.

Quote:Think for a second what rape really is.  It's a violent act not a sexual act.

Rape is non-consensual sexual contact. It doesn't have to involve tying a woman to the bed, beating her senseless or holding a gun to her head. It can be as peaceful as a Xanax slipped into her punch (which is kind of close to attempted murder, actually) to make her more "agreeable", or a dose of GHB to knock her out for a few hours.

 

It really feels like you're making excuses for frat boys who prey on women here, simply because they don't have "real world" experience with sex. I don't have "real world" experience with murder--does that count as a mitigating factor if I walk down the street shooting people?

 

I mean, seriously, how much "education" is needed to grasp the concept that drugging a woman and having sex with her while she's out is wrong?

Quote:What is so distasteful?  It's a JOKE, meant to be humorous.

In this case you and I have a very different idea of what is humorous. 

 

I find this pretty distasteful as well. 

Quote:Everyone has the right to free speech, but free speech isn't free of consequences.

This.

Quote:In this case you and I have a very different idea of what is humorous. 

 

I find this pretty distasteful as well. 

 

I have a hard time understanding how someone wouldn't find those signs distasteful

Quote:I have a hard time understanding how someone wouldn't find those signs distasteful

How we each view the world is subjective. In this case, as someone has already pointed out, the huge and very real problem of college rape automatically makes these statements distasteful. It would be as bad as male troops welcoming new females to a company with similar words, as rape is a very real issue in the military as well.

My father told me when I went to college that if I did something that I would be embarrassed about, or my family would be embarrassed about, if it was on the front page of the newspaper and the nightly news, then it's stupid and don't do it.

 

Pretty sound advice.

 

Regards....................the Chiefjag

Quote:Rape is non-consensual sexual contact. It doesn't have to involve tying a woman to the bed, beating her senseless or holding a gun to her head. It can be as peaceful as a Xanax slipped into her punch (which is kind of close to attempted murder, actually) to make her more "agreeable", or a dose of GHB to knock her out for a few hours.

 

It really feels like you're making excuses for frat boys who prey on women here, simply because they don't have "real world" experience with sex. I don't have "real world" experience with murder--does that count as a mitigating factor if I walk down the street shooting people?

 

I mean, seriously, how much "education" is needed to grasp the concept that drugging a woman and having sex with her while she's out is wrong?

 

I have to disagree with you regarding rape as I understand it.  To me, rape is a violent crime that has nothing to do with sex.  It's all about domination, control and in most cases, very brutal.  That's not to say that it doesn't happen at some point using drugs, but let's look at the big picture here.

 

I'm not making excuses for frat boys, only trying to identify and solve the problem.  Are frat boys slipping date-rape drugs into drinks fed to young girls trying to do so to commit rape (as I defined it above) or is it because they want to "get their first experience"?

 

I do find it kind of "uncomfortable" that you seem to know which drugs to administer and the effects though.  (I kid  ).

Quote:I have to disagree with you regarding rape as I understand it.  To me, rape is a violent crime that has nothing to do with sex.  It's all about domination, control and in most cases, very brutal.  That's not to say that it doesn't happen at some point using drugs, but let's look at the big picture here.

 

I'm not making excuses for frat boys, only trying to identify and solve the problem.  Are frat boys slipping date-rape drugs into drinks fed to young girls trying to do so to commit rape (as I defined it above) or is it because they want to "get their first experience"?

 

I do find it kind of "uncomfortable" that you seem to know which drugs to administer and the effects though.  (I kid  ).

Yes, let's look at the bigger picture here. It's still rape regardless of why they are doing it.

Quote:I have to disagree with you regarding rape as I understand it.  To me, rape is a violent crime that has nothing to do with sex.  It's all about domination, control and in most cases, very brutal.  That's not to say that it doesn't happen at some point using drugs, but let's look at the big picture here.

 

I'm not making excuses for frat boys, only trying to identify and solve the problem.  Are frat boys slipping date-rape drugs into drinks fed to young girls trying to do so to commit rape (as I defined it above) or is it because they want to "get their first experience"?

 

I do find it kind of "uncomfortable" that you seem to know which drugs to administer and the effects though.  (I kid  ).

Here's a scenario for you:

 

A frat boy meets a girl at a party. They hit it off. He asks her if she wants to "stay the night". She says no. He hits up one of his frat buddies for a roofie, which he then slips in her drink. While she's out cold, he has sex with her.

 

If rape is solely a violent act, then what is that? She did not grant consent for sex, so he nonviolently put her into a state where she couldn't object and had sex with her against her wishes anyway. What word could you possibly attach to that other than "rape"?

 

This is not about hormone-crazed freshmen out for their first time. This is a pattern of sexual abuse by fraternity members, and it's not just for their "first time" (if that's how a guy goes about getting his first time, then someone should cut his EDIT: OOPS off). The rationale behind it is irrelevant. What's relevant is that the girl/woman had either already said no or was not given the chance to before sexual intercourse happened. I just don't see any word to describe that other than "rape". I don't know if you're just being contrarian to liven up the discussion at this point, but you're basically defending rapists on the grounds that they're just "kids looking for their first time." That's significantly more disturbing than your defense of Josh Duggar's incestuous fondling by rationale of his being a minor at the time.

 

As to the drugs, I do know that at Arizona State, when I was there, the "drug of choice" was to slip a Xanax into a girl's cocktail. The pills were very easy to come by, they dissolved in the drinks quickly, and they didn't make it taste funny.

 

What wasn't considered is that Xanax and alcohol is one of those movie star suicide cocktails. One Xanax in a beer isn't going to do it, but if the girl has a very low tolerance and you drop a Xanax into her fourth or fifth beer...she could find herself waking up in the emergency room, if at all.

 

My wife takes a regulated version of GHB to help with a sleep disorder. No, seriously. The information booklet lists, "This drug is regulated," as the answer to a question about the differences between it and GHB. When she's taken it, she very quickly turns into a log. A loveable, happy, often-hungry log, then she goes under. But here's what scares me about it:

 

On occasion, while the drug is kicking in, she will express to me in what could best be described as a hazy slur that she's, ahem, "in the mood." By the time she's saying that, she usually has fairly limited ability to move her torso, and not nearly enough coordination to get up and walk away. It's kind of scary when you consider that, since the drug she's on is basically GHB, it's entirely possible that GHB is giving some rapists a built-in case for walking away clean. How were they to know she had been drugged? They thought she was just really drunk. Besides, she did say yes, right?

 

Edit: I did not think it would let me say that word.

Quote:I have to disagree with you regarding rape as I understand it.  To me, rape is a violent crime that has nothing to do with sex.  It's all about domination, control and in most cases, very brutal.  That's not to say that it doesn't happen at some point using drugs, but let's look at the big picture here.

 

I'm not making excuses for frat boys, only trying to identify and solve the problem.  Are frat boys slipping date-rape drugs into drinks fed to young girls trying to do so to commit rape (as I defined it above) or is it because they want to "get their first experience"?

 

I do find it kind of "uncomfortable" that you seem to know which drugs to administer and the effects though.  (I kid  ).

Need Kermit emoji.

Unconscious girls can't consent so any physical contact is not o.k. regardless of the young frat boy's motivation.

Any sexual act that is not consensual is rape. Period. Whether is man on woman, woman on man, man on man or woman on woman. Jagibelieve is mostly right that rape is more about domination than sex, but the fact that any type of sexual act is involved with the domination is what makes is rape. 

 

A man who beat the crap out of a woman to show dominance didn't rape her, he assaulted her. 

I don't see the controversy here. Frat hangs an off color joke from the front of their frat house, college tells them to take it down. So what?

If you read the articles, let's not forget the national committee of the fraternity actually suspended the fraternity from that campus as well...

Quote:Why do men rape women? How do we stop them from doing it? It's awful but how do stop people from doing things like that? I think with frats its about the power and the superior mentality. At least that's the impression I get from friends that were in frats.


So should the university do nothing to this frat for being in poor taste and inflammatory to a serious issue (at best) or should they ignore it and instead focus on stopping people from raping. You point is hard to figure out here.

Also how they view women in general. Just like those banners imply. Why is rape so high on college campuses? Because of the culture. And those frat kids provided the perfect example of it. Women are there for them to have sex with. That's the problem with the banners. The culture and how that develops. And we have those defending that in this very thread.

Quote:Also how they view women in general. Just like those banners imply. Why is rape so high on college campuses? Because of the culture. And those frat kids provided the perfect example of it. Women are there for them to have sex with. That's the problem with the banners. The culture and how that develops. And we have those defending that in this very thread.

Why can't you stop being PC and just let the boys be boys?

Quote:I don't see the controversy here. Frat hangs an off color joke from the front of their frat house, college tells them to take it down. So what?

If the issue of rape on college campuses wasn't such a problem, the banners wouldn't be a problem. But because it is, they are. It's pretty simple.