Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the First Amendment means and how it protects US citizens.

 

So explain to me why this fraternity is being reprimanded by the university that they attend.  Did they break any laws?  Did they harm anyone?

Quote:So explain to me why this fraternity is being reprimanded by the university that they attend.  Did they break any laws?  Did they harm anyone?

It has already been explained. It is inflammatory and in poor taste and looks bad on the university. Same reason the overall organization governing this chapter of the frat got involved. 

Quote:I just might start a new thread regarding that. It could make for some interesting discussion.

I bet a lot of its righties and lefties would be in agreement on the topic!

Quote:It has already been explained. It is inflammatory and in poor taste and looks bad on the university. Same reason the overall organization governing this chapter of the frat got involved.

Agreed

Quote:Nazi flag in 1933 wasn't nefarious. ISIS flag was, at the time of the story and right now, nefarious.

You are more than willing to assume that Walmart "gladly" makes ISIS cakes but not that the baker knew what they were looking at. Big shocker there. At least you didn't deny TJ's assertion of it being some redneck with an axe to grind because he couldn't get a cake with his racist symbol of hate on it. 

Quote:Why are you making me argue on this of all things.

 

http://corporate.walmart.com/our-story/w...rt/culture

Service to Our Customers
Every associate — from our CEO to our hourly associates in local stores — is reminded daily that our customers are why we’re here. We do our best every day to provide the greatest possible level of service to everyone we come in contact with.

• <b>Serve</b> our customers by making them our first priority.
  
• <b>Support</b> our associates so they can best serve our customers.
  
• <b>Give</b> to the local community in ways that connect to our customers.
  

Respect for the Individual
From Walmart’s earliest days as a small discount store, we have emphasized the importance of respect for every associate, every customer and every member of the community. 

• <b>Value</b> and recognize the contributions of every associate.
  
• <b>Own</b> what we do with a sense of urgency, and empower each other to do the same.
  
• <b>Communicate </b>by listening to all associates and sharing ideas and information.
  

 

They gladly made the cake.

Where does it say we gladly make ISIS cakes or even ISIS in it at all? 

Quote:Where does it say we gladly make ISIS cakes or even ISIS in it at all?

Careful, you might make his head explode...

Quote:It has already been explained. It is inflammatory and in poor taste and looks bad on the university. Same reason the overall organization governing this chapter of the frat got involved. 

 

So if someone is exercising their freedom of speech or freedom of expression and you don't agree with it, should they be shut down?  Who makes the determination that it is in poor taste or looks bad on the university?

Quote:So if someone is exercising their freedom of speech or freedom of expression and you don't agree with it, should they be shut down?  Who makes the determination that it is in poor taste or looks bad on the university?

 

And you claim to have been in the military? Did you have unlimited right to free speech? Did you not have a chain of command? Did you not realize there were lines that couldn't be crossed?

 

You were either a real poor Navy man or you are just be "slow" for argument's sake.

Quote:So if someone is exercising their freedom of speech or freedom of expression and you don't agree with it, should they be shut down? Who makes the determination that it is in poor taste or looks bad on the university?

The university if its withing their right can take action or at least say something since they also have freedoms here. It's a moot point though since the governing body of the frat chapter has spoken on the issue and they are within their right since the chapter is under their ultimate control.

Quote:And you claim to have been in the military? Did you have unlimited right to free speech? Did you not have a chain of command? Did you not realize there were lines that couldn't be crossed?

 

You were either a real poor Navy man or you are just be "slow" for argument's sake.

 

I'm not sure what you are getting at with your comment.  For starters, the military is a whole separate issue.

 

Please try to explain how I was a "real poor Navy man" and how it relates to this discussion.

 

Perhaps you can explain how I "just be 'slow'".

Quote:The university if its withing their right can take action or at least say something since they also have freedoms here. It's a moot point though since the governing body of the frat chapter has spoken on the issue and they are within their right since the chapter is under their ultimate control.

 

You somewhat have it right.

 

The university can not and should not have the ability to "take action" against these individuals because first of all, it didn't happen on university property.  Are you saying that it's up to the university to determine if what they did on their own property is "in poor taste"?  If the university determines that, should they have the power to shut down said speech/expression?  If so, then what if said university doesn't agree with a banner that say's "pro life"?  Would they also have the same power if they determine that the message is "in poor taste"?

 

As far as what the national governing body does with the frat chapter, that's their own internal issue and decision.

Quote:You somewhat have it right.


The university can not and should not have the ability to "take action" against these individuals because first of all, it didn't happen on university property. Are you saying that it's up to the university to determine if what they did on their own property is "in poor taste"? If the university determines that, should they have the power to shut down said speech/expression? If so, then what if said university doesn't agree with a banner that say's "pro life"? Would they also have the same power if they determine that the message is "in poor taste"?


As far as what the national governing body does with the frat chapter, that's their own internal issue and decision.

That all depends. You are assuming no CoC guidelines were issued and or signed by the students. If not then of course no action can he taken. Besides unless I am wrong no action was taken and you are upset because the university said something. That's why I previously asked who's free speech is more important.

It doesn't matter there are campus by laws you can't say what you want and be a frat. Just like you cant say what you want at work. Follow the rules, work hard pay your taxes, then die. If you don't like it to bad.

Personally if my daughter and I were touring potential universities and saw signs like that hanging outside a frat house associated with said university, I would quickly make a u turn and spend that tuition money somewhere else. My 2 cents.

Quote:Personally if my daughter and I were touring potential universities and saw signs like that hanging outside a frat house associated with said university, I would quickly make a u turn and spend that tuition money somewhere else. My 2 cents.

 

Same, but I defend their right to say it.

https://twitter.com/FormerlyFormer/statu...wsrc%5Etfw

 

Quote:I'm sure that you are referring to me with your comment.  If so, then you are wrong.  What I am defending and why I started this thread (among other reasons) has nothing to do with rape.  That's just how the thread turned because some are "offended" by what was on the banners.

 

The bottom line is, these frat boys are being punished for exorcising their First Amendment Right and it's all due to political correctness.

Quote:<div>
So explain to me why this fraternity is being reprimanded by the university that they attend.  Did they break any laws?  Did they harm anyone?

Quote:So if someone is exercising their freedom of speech or freedom of expression and you don't agree with it, should they be shut down?  Who makes the determination that it is in poor taste or looks bad on the university?

</div>
 

A couple of points:

 

1. The First Amendment does not apply to "speech that incites violence or encourages the audience to commit illegal or dangerous acts.". This is interpolated from Weirum v. RKO General, Inc. (link) and a criminal case surrounding chatroom conduct (link).

 

2. Whether you agree with it or not, the First Amendment becomes tenuous once you affiliate with an educational institution. Even at public institutions, the college president has veto power over articles, can force you to run retractions, can forcibly remove people from the school paper and TV station for what they print, etc. This includes off-campus fraternities and sororities.

Quote:You somewhat have it right.

 

The university can not and should not have the ability to "take action" against these individuals because first of all, it didn't happen on university property.  Are you saying that it's up to the university to determine if what they did on their own property is "in poor taste"?  If the university determines that, should they have the power to shut down said speech/expression?  If so, then what if said university doesn't agree with a banner that say's "pro life"?  Would they also have the same power if they determine that the message is "in poor taste"?

 

As far as what the national governing body does with the frat chapter, that's their own internal issue and decision.

 

The text of the First Amendment is as follows:

 

Quote:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
 

 

Congress, or the government in general, is not part of this. The university has the same right as any other business or institution to enforce its standards and code of conduct.

People get fired all the time for things outside of work.  It's why my wife doesn't do social media, and is careful about who she tells where she lives.  I'm sure that's okay though, because it's not an 'evil college' liberalizing its students.