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Quote:If the issue of rape on college campuses wasn't such a problem, the banners wouldn't be a problem. But because it is, they are. It's pretty simple.

Well said. 

Quote:Also how they view women in general. Just like those banners imply. Why is rape so high on college campuses? Because of the culture. And those frat kids provided the perfect example of it. Women are there for them to have sex with. That's the problem with the banners. The culture and how that develops. And we have those defending that in this very thread.

 

I'm sure that you are referring to me with your comment.  If so, then you are wrong.  What I am defending and why I started this thread (among other reasons) has nothing to do with rape.  That's just how the thread turned because some are "offended" by what was on the banners.

 

The bottom line is, these frat boys are being punished for exorcising their First Amendment Right and it's all due to political correctness.

Lol, their first amendment right to be idiots has not been infringed upon... the federal government has not done anything to them.


Based on your argument, how come you haven't started a thread about poor TMD?


He also said stupid things, and now his freedom of speech has been limited? When do we protest for poor TMD??


Or, did these idiots say something that goes against a code of conduct of the national fraternity, and they are dealing with this consequences?

Quote:Lol, their first amendment right to be idiots has not been infringed upon... the federal government has not done anything to them.


Based on your argument, how come you haven't started a thread about poor TMD?


He also said stupid things, and now his freedom of speech has been limited? When do we protest for poor TMD??


Or, did these idiots say something that goes against a code of conduct of the national fraternity, and they are dealing with this consequences?

 

First of all, the house is located off campus, but that doesn't stop the President of the University from being "outraged".

 

Here's a quote from the article that I linked.

Quote: 

University President John R. Broderick said in a Facebook post that he was "outraged" over the banners and vowed the incident would be reviewed "immediately."

 
“I said at my State of the University address that there is zero tolerance on this campus for sexual assault and sexual harassment,” Broderick wrote. "Any student found to have violated the code of conduct will be subject to disciplinary action."

 

 

The campus "government" was certainly offended.

Quote: 

The ODU Student Government also addressed the signs in a Facebook message and video featuring campus leaders.

 
“An incident occurred this weekend that does not reflect the university’s commitment to the prevention of sexual assault and dating violence,” the Facebook message said. “Not only do these actions taken by a few individuals undermine the countless efforts at Old Dominion University to prevent sexual assault, they are also unwelcoming, offensive and unacceptable
.”

 

This happened off campus, but yet the school is sending the message that this kind of freedom of expression is not allowed by students... at any time... even off campus.

But jagi, that entity is representative of the university. They must follow the rules of the university as prescribed by the university code of conduct.


If an individual student conducted himself poorly off campus, the school still has a right to discipline as they see fit -- with in rules and code of conduct as prescribed by the university and signed off on by the individual. That is the university's right as an entity. And it's the responsibility of each person out entity that wishes to be a part of that institution.


Also, you keep ignoring that the fraternity's national committee suspended them as well.


They exercised free speech, they are still free and not in jail or being persecuted by the federal or state government, but they are being held responsible for their actions. Seems pretty much on the up and up to me

Quote:First of all, the house is located off campus, but that doesn't stop the President of the University from being "outraged".

 

Here's a quote from the article that I linked.

 

 

The campus "government" was certainly offended.

 

This happened off campus, but yet the school is sending the message that this kind of freedom of expression is not allowed by students... at any time... even off campus.

You make no sense.

 

You started this thread because someone was expressing their freedom of speech to other people's freedom of speech.

 

Who's freedom of speech is more important? The people with the banners or the people that see it as a systemic problem with sexual assault culture? 

 

As stated before they are free to express how disgusting they are all they want, they are not free from consequences. 

Quote:But jagi, that entity is representative of the university. They must follow the rules of the university as prescribed by the university code of conduct.


If an individual student conducted himself poorly off campus, the school still has a right to discipline as they see fit -- with in rules and code of conduct as prescribed by the university and signed off on by the individual. That is the university's right as an entity. And it's the responsibility of each person out entity that wishes to be a part of that institution.


Also, you keep ignoring that the fraternity's national committee suspended them as well.


They exercised free speech, they are still free and not in jail or being persecuted by the federal or state government, but they are being held responsible for their actions. Seems pretty much on the up and up to me

 

I'm not ignoring that the fraternity's national committee suspended them.  This isn't about that (though I disagree with it).

 

It's about PC and an institution forcing a certain view point.

 

This example is probably not a good one for me, especially with my limited knowledge of fraternity and university agreements.

 

Let me get this straight though so I have a clear understanding.  Say for example that the house in question wasn't a fraternity house, but just a house that a group of college students rented and are staying in.  It's off campus.  You are saying that the college/university has a say regarding what happens at the house?

Quote:You make no sense.

 

You started this thread because someone was expressing their freedom of speech to other people's freedom of speech.

 

Who's freedom of speech is more important? The people with the banners or the people that see it as a systemic problem with sexual assault culture? 

 

As stated before they are free to express how disgusting they are all they want, they are not free from consequences. 

 

I don't get what you are saying here.  I started the thread regarding PC and how it shuts down the freedom of expression.

 

As far as "who's freedom of expression is more important", I would say that everyone's is, including the boys that hung those banners.  It's all about freedom of expression, not "freedom to not be offended".

 

Let me ask you (and others) this.  Why do so many college campuses have so-called "free speech zones"?

Quote:I'm not ignoring that the fraternity's national committee suspended them. This isn't about that (though I disagree with it).


It's about PC and an institution forcing a certain view point.


This example is probably not a good one for me, especially with my limited knowledge of fraternity and university agreements.


Let me get this straight though so I have a clear understanding. Say for example that the house in question wasn't a fraternity house, but just a house that a group of college students rented and are staying in. It's off campus. You are saying that the college/university has a say regarding what happens at the house?

I was in a fraternity at UNM, we had a committee within the fraternity we dubbed risk management that I was a part of. It was very clear that even as an individual going out to a house party off campus, actions that were brought to the attention of the university could affect not just the individual, but also the fraternity...


So yes, if one sexually assaulted a female at an off campus party and the university caught wind of it, you'd be in trouble...


Now, remember that unm is mostly a commuter school, so word of verbal abuse, or the like, would not get back to the school.


However, at a small college/non-commuter school, the tentacles off the university would have a larger reach...


I know that the chapter of my fraternity lost their chapter at NMSU because of off campus shenanigans...

Quote:I was in a fraternity at UNM, we had a committee within the fraternity we dubbed risk management that I was a part of. It was very clear that even as an individual going out to a house party off campus, actions that were brought to the attention of the university could affect not just the individual, but also the fraternity...


So yes, if one sexually assaulted a female at an off campus party and the university caught wind of it, you'd be in trouble...


Now, remember that unm is mostly a commuter school, so word of verbal abuse, or the like, would not get back to the school.


However, at a small college/non-commuter school, the tentacles off the university would have a larger reach...


I know that the chapter of my fraternity lost their chapter at NMSU because of off campus shenanigans...

 

I ask you the same question that I asked boudreaumw, and it's kind of my reason for posting this thread to begin with.  Why do so many college campuses have so-called "free speech zones"?

I find this a weird thread considering the PC-policing that went on in the Jared Fogle thread.


These signs are 10X more inappropriate than any of the jokes that were getting chastised there.

Now,


If you want to sell me on pc killing our free speech, find me a group that get arrested to attacked by the government for exercising their first amendment rights...


Like in Ferguson... :-)

Quote:I ask you the same question that I asked boudreaumw, and it's kind of my reason for posting this thread to begin with. Why do so many college campuses have so-called "free speech zones"?

I'm not sure that they do...


There was this dude at unm we all called the naked guy. He was always out protesting some nonsense... and he was just wearing what was equivalent to a Speedo. He was saying freaky stuff all the time. Never saw him get arrested or removed from campus...

Quote:Now,


If you want to sell me on pc killing our free speech, find me a group that get arrested to attacked by the government for exercising their first amendment rights...


Like in Ferguson... :-)

 

I'm not sure where you are going with this.  Can you explain?  Are you insinuating that some of the "protesters" in Ferguson got arrested or "attacked" by the government while exorcising their first amendment rights?

Quote:I'm not sure that they do...


 

 

Take a look at this.

Quote:I'm not sure where you are going with this.  Can you explain?  Are you insinuating that some of the "protesters" in Ferguson got arrested or "attacked" by the government while exorcising their first amendment rights?

 

No, he's going "Nobody is getting arrested for exercising their first amendment rights."


So nobody's freedom of speech is being intruded on, because only the government can intrude on your free speech.  There are consequences to free speech.  Free speech is not consequence free.  You have a right to say what you want, but you can expect others to react to what you say.  

Quote:No, he's going "Nobody is getting arrested for exercising their first amendment rights."


So nobody's freedom of speech is being intruded on, because only the government can intrude on your free speech.  There are consequences to free speech.  Free speech is not consequence free.  You have a right to say what you want, but you can expect others to react to what you say.  

 

And if it's a government school ... ???


 

"Getting arrested" is not the only form of punishment.

Quote:And if it's a government school ... ???


 

"Getting arrested" is not the only form of punishment.

 

What part of this is in violation exactly?

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Quote:What part of this is in violation exactly?

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

If it were a government school then it would be "abridging the freedom of speech." The 14th amendment applied the bill of rights to state governments, and the Supremes extended it to local governments, so that covers all of the government schools. 


 

I'm not sure how a college run by (say) the St. Johns River Water Management District would fit in that hierarchy.

Quote:Take a look at this.

 

Well...  If you would start a thread about this, then we actually have something that may have swayed me to your thinking...  But those free speech zone are not about being PC, they are about the University trying to control and limit speech.  There's nothing there that say's PC is destroying anything.  That's an authoritarian approach to marginalize students from protesting...

 

But free speech zones versus stupid frat boys are 2 different things!  

 

Also, I never knew about this free speech zone nonsense.  Thanks for informing me.  I would hope that students would ignore these zone if they really had a beef...