Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Unfortunately with Fowler hurt the Jags are not only missing stats in 2015, but they're also missing a year in Fowler's development that may affect 2016 as well.  For most top rated pass-rushers, the first year can be fairly mild in terms of sack statistics, but the development sets them up for a major 2nd year debut. Quinn and Watt kind make a good comparison.  Their rookie years ended up in 5-6 Sack range, while their 2nd years resulted in double-digit sack numbers.

 

I think it's reasonable to expect Dante's double-digit sack season to be 2017, now that he's missing a year of development.

Quote:Unfortunately with Fowler hurt the Jags are not only missing stats in 2015, but they're also missing a year in Fowler's development that may affect 2016 as well.  For most top rated pass-rushers, the first year can be fairly mild in terms of sack statistics, but the development sets them up for a major 2nd year debut. Quinn and Watt kind make a good comparison.  Their rookie years ended up in 5-6 Sack range, while their 2nd years resulted in double-digit sack numbers.

 

I think it's reasonable to expect Dante's double-digit sack season to be 2017, now that he's missing a year of development.

 

It's a shame, but that's a distinct possibility.  We'll see. 

Quote:I don't know.  I can just imagine next year around this time before practice, DC or Gus saying, "Hey, remember last year?  Lets take it easy."

 

I think that's the opposite of the reaction the coaching staff should have.  Everyday you can wake up and search for a news story about how a perfectly normal driver got smashed by another car through no fault of their own on their way to work.  If you use that excuse to not start your car and get into work, you're not going to have a very successful career.

Quote:How much easier are they going to take it on these guys?  Put cots out there and have pillow fights?  Injuries happen, and obviously even in non-contact drills like the one that cost Fowler his rookie year.  At some point you either have to decide the players should wear skirts and not prepare at all, or you accept the risk and move on.  It's football. 

 

It would have been sooooo much better if he had gotten hurt in training camp instead.   :ermm:

Quote:How much easier are they going to take it on these guys?  Put cots out there and have pillow fights?  Injuries happen, and obviously even in non-contact drills like the one that cost Fowler his rookie year.  At some point you either have to decide the players should wear skirts and not prepare at all, or you accept the risk and move on.  It's football. 

 

I've been told by various fans of other teams that they don't have 11 on 11 scrimmage type practices during mini-camp.

 

There is contact in a no-pads practice, especially if you have drills where defensive linemen engage offensive linemen.

 

Skirts. ha... ha.. ha man you're so funny.  You accept the risk of practicing when it actually matters.  Rookie mini-camp is about as pointless as it gets.

 

Quote:I think that's the opposite of the reaction the coaching staff should have.  Everyday you can wake up and search for a news story about how a perfectly normal driver got smashed by another car through no fault of their own on their way to work.  If you use that excuse to not start your car and get into work, you're not going to have a very successful career.

 

Oh really?  That's the opposite reaction.  They turn it up a notch next year?  Ya, ok.  Good idea.

 

It's perfectly logical to limit your risk of injury.  Your analogy does not hold because nobody would suggest we stop all practices.  It's simply a matter of eliminating drills such as 11 on 11 (in mini-camp) where all the players are going 100%.  It's an unnecessary risk.  We can take those risks when they matter in training camp and preseason. 

 

It's the same logic that was applied to eliminating the "Oklahoma" drill.  Alualu got hurt for no reason.  He got hurt just to put on a show, which is exactly what I think these mini-camps are.  It's just a little show that means nothing.

If Fowler was wearing this then he wouldn't have gotten hurt. I blame Gus Bradley for forcing Fowler to go thru rigorous practice drills without the proper attire.

What's funny is next year when they tone down the practice for rookie mini-camp, all you guys laughing at me now will then be like, "Hey ya good idea, Gus and DC."

Quote:What's funny is next year when they tone down the practice for rookie mini-camp, all you guys laughing at me now will then be like, "Hey ya good idea, Gus and DC."

Good luck hoping that happens.  It won't.  You can wring your hands with every practice session as you worry about non contact injuries.

Quote:I've been told by various fans of other teams that they don't have 11 on 11 scrimmage type practices during mini-camp.

 

There is contact in a no-pads practice, especially if you have drills where defensive linemen engage offensive linemen.

 

Skirts. ha... ha.. ha man you're so funny.  You accept the risk of practicing when it actually matters.  Rookie mini-camp is about as pointless as it gets.

 

That's a load of garbage.  Every team basically runs the same drills with different variations.  I've been to other camps, and seen every training camp by every coach this franchise has had, and 11x11, 9x7, 7x7 are all staples regardless of who is coaching.  And the number of players in non-contact drills is completely irrelevant anyway. 

 

I'm well aware that there is contact in non-contact drills.  I've been to 1 or 2 practices in my lifetime.  There was absolutely MINIMAL contact on the play where Fowler blew his knee out. 

 

Every practice matters, especially for rookies.

 

They're not watering down practices. They have to get these guys prepared with an extremely limited ability to do so on the field.  That's why they run those 11x11 drills that apparently your friends say aren't happening. 

Quote:It would have been sooooo much better if he had gotten hurt in training camp instead.   :ermm:

Exactly.  It would have been a more meaningful injury.

Quote:I think that's the opposite of the reaction the coaching staff should have.  Everyday you can wake up and search for a news story about how a perfectly normal driver got smashed by another car through no fault of their own on their way to work.  If you use that excuse to not start your car and get into work, you're not going to have a very successful career.

Exactly.  If you don't practice in these drills to work on technique and assignments, you are more exposed to injury.  This mentality that we need to water down non-contact drills is the same mindset that says everyone should get a trophy for participating even if they don't win.  It's the "estrogenization" of sports.  The biggest advocates of watering down practices probably have a closet full of mom jeans.

Quote:Exactly.  If you don't practice in these drills to work on technique and assignments, you are more exposed to injury.  This mentality that we need to water down non-contact drills is the same mindset that says everyone should get a trophy for participating even if they don't win.  It's the "estrogenization" of sports.  The biggest advocates of watering down practices probably have a closet full of mom jeans.

 

You're getting emotional.  This has nothing to do with that.  It's simply a matter of limiting risk.  It's the same logic that keeps these practices from being full contact.  You don't do full-contact padded practices every day from now until the season starts because of risk of injury and it's unnecessary.  It's not because they want all the players to grow breasts.

 

Quote:Good luck hoping that happens.  It won't.  You can wring your hands with every practice session as you worry about non contact injuries.

That's a load of garbage.  Every team basically runs the same drills with different variations.  I've been to other camps, and seen every training camp by every coach this franchise has had, and 11x11, 9x7, 7x7 are all staples regardless of who is coaching.  And the number of players in non-contact drills is completely irrelevant anyway. 

 

I'm well aware that there is contact in non-contact drills.  I've been to 1 or 2 practices in my lifetime.  There was absolutely MINIMAL contact on the play where Fowler blew his knee out. 

 

Every practice matters, especially for rookies.

 

They're not watering down practices. They have to get these guys prepared with an extremely limited ability to do so on the field.  That's why they run those 11x11 drills that apparently your friends say aren't happening. 

 

I've heard otherwise.  Feel free to get out of your Jaguars bubble and talk to fans of other teams.

 

I would guess that MOST teams do similar drills (11 on 11 @ 100%) during rookie mini-camp.  However, there are some that don't.  Now we can see why.

 

I don't think you are even understanding my point.  We're talking about rookie mini-camp, not real practices.  A lot of the guys at rookie mini-camp wont even make the team.  Sure, keep the norm for regular training camp when the season is around the corner.  May is not the time to be going all out (or even close to all out).

 

Quote:I've heard otherwise. Feel free to get out of your Jaguars bubble and talk to fans of other teams.


I would guess that MOST teams do similar drills (11 on 11 @ 100%) during rookie mini-camp. However, there are some that don't. Now we can see why.


I don't think you are even understanding my point. We're talking about rookie mini-camp, not real practices. A lot of the guys at rookie mini-camp wont even make the team. Sure, keep the norm for regular training camp when the season is around the corner. May is not the time to be going all out (or even close to all out).

Which teams don't do 11x11 drills?

Quote:Which teams don't do 11x11 drills?

 

Dolphins is one I heard of.  I can't confirm 100%, but it came from a fan I know who follows the team extremely closely.  Even if every team in the league did the same thing, I would still be of the opinion that what I see in these rookie mini-camps is too much, especially for a first round pick who hasn't even signed with the team yet.

 

Quote:Dolphins is one I heard of.  I can't confirm 100%, but it came from a fan I know who follows the team extremely closely.  Even if every team in the league did the same thing, I would still be of the opinion that what I see in these rookie mini-camps is too much, especially for a first round pick who hasn't even signed with the team yet.

 

 

we should change the NFL to a flag league

Quote:we should change the NFL to a flag league

 

yes, that's EXACTLY what I said.

 

You know what, if the undrafted rookie free agents want to go nuts during mini-camp, GO FOR IT.  The highly valued early draft picks, however, need to tone it down.  There is nothing to prove in mini-camp.

Quote:we should change the NFL to a flag league

Day late and dollar short.. Roger is way ahead of ya..

Correction: none of the draft picks participated in the Dolphins 11 on 11 drill

Quote:yes, that's EXACTLY what I said.


You know what, if the undrafted rookie free agents want to go nuts during mini-camp, GO FOR IT. The highly valued early draft picks, however, need to tone it down. There is nothing to prove in mini-camp.

What about those who are neither highly valued early draft picks nor undrafted free agents? Those picked in rounds 3-7? Should they go nuts or not?


What of the first or second round pick that isn't "highly valued?". What if the player is picked over the strenuous objection of his position coach, coordinator, head coach or some combination thereof? Does that make the player less than " highly valued " and more obliged to go nuts? What if the highly drafted player is brought in at a position of strength (I.e. Phillip Dorsett, Cedric Ogubueshi) and is not being asked to start immediately? Is he considered "highly valued" or not? Conversely, if on the same team, a third round pick is at a position of weakness, and the team has an expectation he can start, what then? Is he under more or less of an obligation to go nuts than the higher drafted yet less than highly valued player above? Does injury change the rookie effort obligation? What kind of message does different levels of allowable effort send to the team?


I understand being risk averse, but I think this particular strand of your argument is troublesome in its application.