Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Agreed.  They're not tanking.  This is a young team that's taking their lumps.  Nothing more. 

Agreed completely.

 

Many predicted this team would start slowly, and that's exactly what has happened.

Quote:I don't agree that the team is in tank mode.  That would imply there's something intentional happening  here, and for that to be the case, they wouldn't have gone out and invested as heavily as they did in the defense this off season only to see the unit struggle now.  No owner would tolerate that. 

 

I think what people need to recognize is that it's still a very young team, and that there are going to be struggles early as they continue to mature and develop as NFL players.  By the time we get to the bye week and beyond, we'll hopefully be seeing a completely different brand of football.  To say they're tanking at this point is just nonsense. 

 

You are probably right, but I think short term they are definitely not overly concerned with winning the next few games while Henne is out there.  Henne is not our best option, and he doesn't give us the best chance to win.

 

So it's as close to tanking the first half of the season as you can get without fielding a completely useless team.  That is assuming Bortles plays mid-way.  If he sits all year then... I don't know how the FO expected much more than 2-4 wins.

 

And I don't know how the FO starts a season with this offensive line (paired with Henne) and expected to not lose.

Quote:Agreed completely.

 

Many predicted this team would start slowly, and that's exactly what has happened.

 

I didn't see this team being outscored 75- 27 in their first two games, that's not starting slowly, that's starting horrifically. There's no excuse for those kinds of lopsided losses in the NFL. I love Dave and Gus, and firmly believe they are the right guys for the job, but at some point (sooner than later) this team needs to play competitive competent football. There shouldn't be this much disparity at the NFL level where every organization has equal resources.

It's like they are fine with losing without really trying to lose... if that makes any sense.

 

I think that is a concept fans don't understand.

Quote:To answer your question, I don't know at this point.

 

Long term, Henne absolutely does NOT give us the better chance to win between he and Bortles.  Bortles is bigger, faster, has a strong, accurate arm and an aggressive approach to QBing thus far.

 

In the immediate term, however, I am not sure because I am not sure what his command of the offense is at this point.  If he cannot consistently identify the Mike, or there are some protections he misses, or plays he still has not mastered, then it is legitimate to question whether he gives the team the best chance to win.

 

We have seen in the defense the disastrous results that can come from not knowing the playbook and blowing assignments.  I can only imagine that effect being magnified if we put a QB out there who is prone to do the same thing-ignoring the things opposing defenses do to confuse QBs.

 

It would also send a message to the rest of the team that if the QB-the leader of the team-can be sent out by coaches obviously unprepared-then anybody at a "lesser" position can safely go out unprepared.

 

I don't think it will be long before Bortles is in the lineup, and I think over time, we the fans will be pleased with the results.

 

But even if he is better than Henne now (not a stretch), I don't think we as fans have enough information to definitively say he is ready to start.

 

This is entirely too reasonable.  Especially the last point. Fans clearly know best.  Just ask them here. 

 

Quote:Agreed completely.

 

Many predicted this team would start slowly, and that's exactly what has happened.

 

Many predicted a slow start, but the team played well for 2 quarters and that apparently changed their entire perception.

Quote:You are probably right, but I think short term they are definitely not overly concerned with winning the next few games while Henne is out there.  Henne is not our best option, and he doesn't give us the best chance to win.

 

So it's as close to tanking the first half of the season as you can get without fielding a completely useless team.  That is assuming Bortles plays mid-way.  If he sits all year then... I don't know how the FO expected much more than 2-4 wins.

 

And I don't know how the FO starts a season with this offensive line (paired with Henne) and expected to not lose.

They've made it clear that this year was about becoming competitive.  That doesn't mean things are going to start out that way.  It's not completely unacceptable to think that as the season progresses, so will the team.  As far as Henne being the best option, as Bullseye pointed out above, that's not really our call to make.  We don't know where he's at with his progression.  All we know is what we saw in the preseason, and that's hardly enough of a sample to truly know where he's at with his development. 

 

The FO did what they could with the line this past off season.  It's not like they didn't make an effort to upgrade it.  They went after Mack and simply couldn't offer enough money to beat a team with deeper pockets for his services.  There weren't a ton of upgrades to be had in free agency, and they drafted guys that they expect to develop into starters, one of them is already in there trying to develop, and the other has been pulled into action to get experience as well.  The line will get better once they get Pasztor back, and it has time to develop and gel.  Right now they're in the infancy of development for an offensive line. 

 

I think the front office was keenly aware of the fact that this team would struggle early on, although I think they expected the defense to be more of a strength than it has been so far.  One injury can't be used as an excuse for why they haven't been able to stop anyone for 6 of their first 8 quarters of play.  And it's not about fatigue because Washington blew right through them from the very start of the game this past Sunday.  As Roy Miller said in his post game interview, there are players out there who are out of place and blowing assignments.  There are too many missed tackles.  There are issues with the defense that nobody anticipated. 

Quote:I think what people need to recognize is that it's still a very young team, and that there are going to be struggles early as they continue to mature and develop as NFL players. By the time we get to the bye week and beyond, we'll hopefully be seeing a completely different brand of football. To say they're tanking at this point is just nonsense.

I agree with this. During the growth and maturation process, the team will improve and probably start winning. At some point the coaches may insert Bortles and when they do, assuming the team has improved, every one of the Anti-Henne Club will start screaming "HA! TOLD YA SO!!!" Hey, if we ARE winning, I won't mind one bit.

Guys, we're only fans, we dont need to have an opinion. the coaches always know best so shut up

Quote:I didn't see this team being outscored 75- 27 in their first two games, that's not starting slowly, that's starting horrifically. There's no excuse for those kinds of lopsided losses in the NFL. I love Dave and Gus, and firmly believe they are the right guys for the job, but at some point (sooner than later) this team needs to play competitive competent football. There shouldn't be this much disparity at the NFL level where every organization has equal resources.

 

And the horrible part is the team hasn't even played as well as the 27 points they've put up.

 

Without the Eagles absolutely gifting the Jaguars 14 points this team could be averaging less than a TD per game.

Quote:I didn't see this team being outscored 75- 27 in their first two games, that's not starting slowly, that's starting horrifically. There's no excuse for those kinds of lopsided losses in the NFL. I love Dave and Gus, and firmly believe they are the right guys for the job, but at some point (sooner than later) this team needs to play competitive competent football. There shouldn't be this much disparity at the NFL level where every organization has equal resources.

 

Nobody expected them to be outscored like that, especially with the upgrades to the defense.  That was expected to be the strength for this team as the offense slowly came together, and they've been anything but.

Quote:I didn't see this team being outscored 75- 27 in their first two games, that's not starting slowly, that's starting horrifically. There's no excuse for those kinds of lopsided losses in the NFL. I love Dave and Gus, and firmly believe they are the right guys for the job, but at some point (sooner than later) this team needs to play competitive competent football. There shouldn't be this much disparity at the NFL level where every organization has equal resources.

I didn't see THAT, either, but at the end of the day, no matter how bad, they each count as only one loss each.

 

Truth be told, this team was competitive against the Eagles despite the final score.  Had the team been able to muster any semblance of a competent running game, I am convinced they beat the Eagles.

 

Nevertheless, the team is starting/featuring 5 rookies on offense (Hurns, Lee, Robinson, Bowanko and Linder) and it will be six once Bortles plays.

The offensive line is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from this point last year.

 

It's going to take time for all these guys to gel.

Quote:I agree with this. During the growth and maturation process, the team will improve and probably start winning. At some point the coaches may insert Bortles and when they do, assuming the team has improved, every one of the Anti-Henne Club will start screaming "HA! TOLD YA SO!!!" Hey, if we ARE winning, I won't mind one bit.

 

The thing about the anti-Henne people is they somehow think that there are actually pro Henne people out there, and I have yet to meet one.  So, I'm not sure who they will be howling their "I told you so!" at when the time comes.  Everyone expects Bortles to step in and be an improvement.  We just disagree on when that is probably going to happen.  If he comes in after sitting on the sideline for a few weeks or more and plays well, there's an equal argument made for those preaching patience to pull out their "I told you so!". 

Quote:And the horrible part is the team hasn't even played as well as the 27 points they've put up.

 

Without the Eagles absolutely gifting the Jaguars 14 points this team could be averaging less than a TD per game.

I love how the Eagles gifted the Jaguars 14 points.  It's as if the defense had nothing to do with that at all. 

This team is not tanking on purpose.  However, just because we have our QB doesn't mean getting the #1 pick would not benefit us tremendously.  What if Mariota or Winston is deemed top dog by a far margin ... there's value to being able to trade that #1 or #2 pick.  Check out the Rams who dumped the #2 RG3 pick to the Skins.

Quote:I love how the Eagles gifted the Jaguars 14 points.  It's as if the defense had nothing to do with that at all. 

 

The defense did their part to take advantage of how poorly the Eagles played, but it's clear from the rest of the Eagles body of work that they're the vastly superior team.

 

Take issue with my terminology if you like, but the Jaguars got some points there that they didn't have to drive the whole field for.

I expected us to have issues scoring but I thought the games were going to be those more like the Leftwich days -- like 17-9 or 14-10.

Quote:I didn't see THAT, either, but at the end of the day, no matter how bad, they each count as only one loss each.

 

Truth be told, this team was competitive against the Eagles despite the final score.  Had the team been able to muster any semblance of a competent running game, I am convinced they beat the Eagles.

 

Nevertheless, the team is starting/featuring 5 rookies on offense (Hurns, Lee, Robinson, Bowanko and Linder) and it will be six once Bortles plays.

The offensive line is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from this point last year.

 

It's going to take time for all these guys to gel.

 

I hope they gel, because they have to gel. There is no way you can beat a team at this level without having any semblance of running game and Chad Henne or a rookie at QB, it won't happen. So for the sake of a simple win, the offensive must gel.

Quote:I didn't see THAT, either, but at the end of the day, no matter how bad, they each count as only one loss each.

 

Truth be told, this team was competitive against the Eagles despite the final score.  Had the team been able to muster any semblance of a competent running game, I am convinced they beat the Eagles.

 

Nevertheless, the team is starting/featuring 5 rookies on offense (Hurns, Lee, Robinson, Bowanko and Linder) and it will be six once Bortles plays.

The offensive line is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from this point last year.

 

It's going to take time for all these guys to gel.

 

This is the point that some here seem to miss completely.  It is going to take time for things to gel.  With the team missing veterans like Marcedes for the next several weeks, and Shorts missing the first couple, that has and will continue to be a problem for this team.  But, as the rookies continue to develop, and we get our veterans back from injury, things will steadily improve. 

Quote:The thing about the anti-Henne people is they somehow think that there are actually pro Henne people out there, and I have yet to meet one.  So, I'm not sure who they will be howling their "I told you so!" at when the time comes.  Everyone expects Bortles to step in and be an improvement.  We just disagree on when that is probably going to happen.  If he comes in after sitting on the sideline for a few weeks or more and plays well, there's an equal argument made for those preaching patience to pull out their "I told you so!". 

have to agree with this... i haven't seen one henne supporter more supporters of patience

 

if bortles came out against the colts and played well i would flip my tiny lid with happiness

if bortles came out in week 10 against whoever, once again I would flip my tiny lid with happiness

 

i genuinely don't care when bortles starts, just feel sitting him for a little while gives me a better chance at happy lid flipping

Quote:This team is not tanking on purpose.  However, just because we have our QB doesn't mean getting the #1 pick would not benefit us tremendously.  What if Mariota or Winston is deemed top dog by a far margin ... there's value to being able to trade that #1 or #2 pick.  Check out the Rams who dumped the #2 RG3 pick to the Skins.

But the team isn't focused on landing the #1 pick.  Most can agree on that, right?

Quote:The thing about the anti-Henne people is they somehow think that there are actually pro Henne people out there, and I have yet to meet one. So, I'm not sure who they will be howling their "I told you so!" at when the time comes. Everyone expects Bortles to step in and be an improvement. We just disagree on when that is probably going to happen. If he comes in after sitting on the sideline for a few weeks or more and plays well, there's an equal argument made for those preaching patience to pull out their "I told you so!".

Yeah, I say "anti-Henne" only in the context that they are so rabidly against him playing regardless of anything else and campaign as if it ultimately makes a difference here.


I have also yet to meet anyone who doesn't want Bortles under center eventually. And he certainly looks like he has the capacity to be a franchise player we've needed here for awhile.