Quote:have to agree with this... i haven't seen one henne supporter more supporters of patience
if bortles came out against the colts and played well i would flip my tiny lid with happiness
if bortles came out in week 10 against whoever, once again I would flip my tiny lid with happiness
i genuinely don't care when bortles starts, just feel sitting him for a little while gives me a better chance at happy lid flipping
You just haven't been paying attention long enough.
There were some real doozies earlier in the offseason where people were claiming Henne would have a career year, throw for 4000 yards, and lead the Jaguars to the playoffs.
They're all backing off of it now, but there was a puzzling level of love for a guy who has never even put up a passer rating of 80 over a season.
Quote:You just haven't been paying attention long enough.
There were some real doozies earlier in the offseason where people were claiming Henne would have a career year, throw for 4000 yards, and lead the Jaguars to the playoffs.
They're all backing off of it now, but there was a puzzling level of love for a guy who has never even put up a passer rating of 80 over a season.
I think the majority of those saying anything of the sort were being sarcastic, but I'll take your word for it.
Quote:This is the point that some here seem to miss completely. It is going to take time for things to gel. With the team missing veterans like Marcedes for the next several weeks, and Shorts missing the first couple, that has and will continue to be a problem for this team. But, as the rookies continue to develop, and we get our veterans back from injury, things will steadily improve.
I think more than anything else, health will determine how far/fast this team appears to be progressing because I believe we have more talent now than last year.
I think if we can get a consistent lineup with the starters for an extended period, I think the OL will improve, I think the running game will improve, the passing game will show more signs of life, and there shouldn't be as many blown coverages on the defense.
Quote:This team is not tanking on purpose. However, just because we have our QB doesn't mean getting the #1 pick would not benefit us tremendously. What if Mariota or Winston is deemed top dog by a far margin ... there's value to being able to trade that #1 or #2 pick. Check out the Rams who dumped the #2 RG3 pick to the Skins.
There's certainly value, but I don't think any organization will ever give the Jaguars what the Redskins gifted the Rams a few years back. That will go down as one of the worst trades in the history of sports.
Quote:I didn't see THAT, either, but at the end of the day, no matter how bad, they each count as only one loss each.
Truth be told, this team was competitive against the Eagles despite the final score. Had the team been able to muster any semblance of a competent running game, I am convinced they beat the Eagles.
Nevertheless, the team is starting/featuring 5 rookies on offense (Hurns, Lee, Robinson, Bowanko and Linder) and it will be six once Bortles plays.
The offensive line is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from this point last year.
It's going to take time for all these guys to gel.
This is all true. But then I ask what's going on with Carolina. Cam Newton is basically throwing to the same type of receivers with the same type of line. Some how they are getting it done. A 41-10 beat down from a team who had a worse record than you last year is inexcuseable. Is it out of the realm for people to want the rookie to play? I get it. I don't want Bortles to get thrown in the fire to early either but your veteran is getting you blown out and that won't stop. I personally feel Bortles could at least put up more than 10 points get more than 8 first downs and more than 148 net passing yards.
Not certain on your thoughts as I know you are one of the more knowledgeable posters here but I'm sure something somewhere in you feels this way as well.
Why do I get the sneaking suspicion that when Bortles does start and plays well, we will have one half of the MB yelling that we didn't start him soon enough and the other claiming that he's playing well because he sat so long?
Quote:You just haven't been paying attention long enough.
There were some real doozies earlier in the offseason where people were claiming Henne would have a career year, throw for 4000 yards, and lead the Jaguars to the playoffs.
They're all backing off of it now, but there was a puzzling level of love for a guy who has never even put up a passer rating of 80 over a season.
yep, and it was because Henne was saying all the right things. the coaches were claiming that he grasped everything, and we drafted two WRs, and everyone started eating it all up.
Quote:Yeah, I say "anti-Henne" only in the context that they are so rabidly against him playing regardless of anything else and campaign as if it ultimately makes a difference here.
I have also yet to meet anyone who doesn't want Bortles under center eventually. And he certainly looks like he has the capacity to be a franchise player we've needed here for awhile.
That's the thing. None of our opinions matter one bit on the subject. We don't have the insight to know exactly what's happening behind the scenes, yet some here feel fully qualified to make their assessments based on nothing more than a few glorified practice games. They're not in the meeting rooms or on the practice field. They're not evaluating the players in any meaningful way. The people who do have that insight have been hesitant to this point to put Bortles in, and we do not know their reasoning. We know they've said he'll start when he's ready, so we can assume from that he's not ready because he's not starting. We also don't know what "ready" means as far as the coaching staff is concerned.
Everyone is in agreement that we are looking forward to seeing him start. Nobody relishes another opportunity to watch Henne stumble through a game, but we understand that there's an end game here, and that he's not the indefinite starter. Bortles will assume that role, and it will more than likely happen by mid-season.
Quote:I think the majority of those saying anything of the sort were being sarcastic, but I'll take your word for it.
It's a possibility.
Still I think the general consensus around here regarding Henne has always overstated his ability and value.
I'd place him squarely in the "upgrade this guy with a rookie late round prospect as quickly as possible" category of QB.
Quote:Nobody expected them to be outscored like that, especially with the upgrades to the defense. That was expected to be the strength for this team as the offense slowly came together, and they've been anything but.
If the offense can sustain a few drives and put some points on the board it will go a long way for this defense, our D still has some holes (particularly in the secondary and overall depth concerns) , but this offense is doing them no favors. The constant 3 and outs and lack of time of possession is the equivalent of turning the ball over several times per game, there's not a defense in the league that could compensate for this offenses incompetence.
Quote:You just haven't been paying attention long enough.
There were some real doozies earlier in the offseason where people were claiming Henne would have a career year, throw for 4000 yards, and lead the Jaguars to the playoffs.
They're all backing off of it now, but there was a puzzling level of love for a guy who has never even put up a passer rating of 80 over a season.
I think I said 3900 yards and 22 TDs to be percise. That's a reasonable extrapolation based starting the whole year, and about a 5% overall improvement in the defense (translates to more opportunities). I stand by it regardless. You're ruling it out after two games?
Quote:This is all true. But then I ask what's going on with Carolina. Cam Newton is basically throwing to the same type of receivers with the same type of line. Some how they are getting it done. A 41-10 beat down from a team who had a worse record than you last year is inexcuseable. Is it out of the realm for people to want the rookie to play? I get it. I don't want Bortles to get thrown in the fire to early either but your veteran is getting you blown out and that won't stop. I personally feel Bortles could at least put up more than 10 points get more than 8 first downs and more than 148 net passing yards.
Not certain on your thoughts as I know you are one of the more knowledgeable posters here but I'm sure something somewhere in you feels this way as well.
Thanks for the closing line.
There are some important distinctions to draw between Carolina and Jacksonville offensively.
1. It's no stretch to assume that Cam Newton for one game is better than Chad Henne in two.
2. Carolina has played with experienced WRs this season so far in Jerrico Cotchery and Jason Avant, in addition to the talented Kelvin Benjamin. Jacksonville has not had any comparable experience at WR playing in the first two regular season games. Hurns, Lee and Robinson-all rookies-have been the main guys. Mike Brown has a small handful of games of experience at WR, but it does not compare to what Carolina has been working with. SHorts, Blackmon, Sanders and Doss have all been out either due to injury or suspension.
3. While Carolina experienced loss in the OL with the retirements of Gross and Wharton, they all have experienced guys starting for them with none less than 3 years experience. They have a Pro Bowl caliber C in Kalil, who has 8 years experience. In terms of games started, the Jaguars started an actual rookie (Linder) and essentially a rookie in Joeckel. It looks Like Bowanko is becoming the new starter at C, and there's another one, and McClendon hadn't played C since high school.
Quote:I love how the Eagles gifted the Jaguars 14 points. It's as if the defense had nothing to do with that at all.
You're right, he didn't say that well. It would be more accurate to say the Jaguars defense gifted the Jaguars offense 14 points.
But the core point, I think, is that without them putting them in scoring position, it seems unlikely the Jaguars offense could have done it for themselves. Our offense so far is worse than even the points scored thus far would suggest.
Quote:I think I said 3900 yards and 22 TDs to be percise. That's a reasonable extrapolation based starting the whole year, and about a 5% overall improvement in the defense (translates to more opportunities). I stand by it regardless. You're ruling it out after two games?
I can't see it happening.
Henne's stats are badly out of whack thanks to what happened at the beginning of the Eagles game. If he throws for even 16 TDs over a 16 game season I'd be surprised.
hb1148 you expected Henne to average 244 yards per game passing?
Quote:I can't see it happening.
Henne's stats are badly out of whack thanks to what happened at the beginning of the Eagles game. If he throws for even 16 TDs over a 16 game season I'd be surprised.
He has thrown for three and the weaker part of the schedule is later in the year and hopefully the WR corps and OL gets better with experience so we shall see.
Quote:Thanks for the closing line.
There are some important distinctions to draw between Carolina and Jacksonville offensively.
1. It's no stretch to assume that Cam Newton for one game is better than Chad Henne in two.
2. Carolina has played with experienced WRs this season so far in Jerrico Cotchery and Jason Avant, in addition to the talented Kelvin Benjamin. Jacksonville has not had any comparable experience at WR playing in the first two regular season games. Hurns, Lee and Robinson-all rookies-have been the main guys. Mike Brown has a small handful of games of experience at WR, but it does not compare to what Carolina has been working with. SHorts, Blackmon, Sanders and Doss have all been out either due to injury or suspension.
3. While Carolina experienced loss in the OL with the retirements of Gross and Wharton, they all have experienced guys starting for them with none less than 3 years experience. In terms of games started, the Jaguars started an actual rookie (Linder) and essentially a rookie in Joeckel. It looks Like Bowanko is becoming the new starter at C, and there's another one, and McClendon hadn't played C since high school.
So talent wise on the offensive line and receiving spots is about the same then. They just have an edge in experience. I can't wait until we get expereince then because 41-10 is hard to watch.
Henne has the edge in experience over Newton and he did have Marcedes playeing with him as well. Shouldn't that count for something? I get that these guys have to get some reps together but is that what a new offense really looks like?
Quote:The skins have been playing football in excess of 80 years. yesterday was the most sacks they ever had. It was the most ever for our franchise. the O-line is historically bad.
It was really tough watching that line yesterday. And then to watch Henne sack himself time after time again, I feel bad for us fans of this team. I told everyone when we signed Henne what we were going to get and he is proving me right.
Quote:Thanks for the closing line.
There are some important distinctions to draw between Carolina and Jacksonville offensively.
1. It's no stretch to assume that Cam Newton for one game is better than Chad Henne in two.
2. Carolina has played with experienced WRs this season so far in Jerrico Cotchery and Jason Avant, in addition to the talented Kelvin Benjamin. Jacksonville has not had any comparable experience at WR playing in the first two regular season games. Hurns, Lee and Robinson-all rookies-have been the main guys. Mike Brown has a small handful of games of experience at WR, but it does not compare to what Carolina has been working with. SHorts, Blackmon, Sanders and Doss have all been out either due to injury or suspension.
3. While Carolina experienced loss in the OL with the retirements of Gross and Wharton, they all have experienced guys starting for them with none less than 3 years experience. They have a Pro Bowl caliber C in Kalil, who has 8 years experience. In terms of games started, the Jaguars started an actual rookie (Linder) and essentially a rookie in Joeckel. It looks Like Bowanko is becoming the new starter at C, and there's another one, and McClendon hadn't played C since high school.
It is a little discouraging that another team can completely revamp their offensive line successfully while we are a complete failure.
The fact that our starting C did not even play the position should be very concerning. Why was this an acceptable group entering the season? This is a massive failure on the part of the FO. And what does that say about Nowanko? Not exactly a ringing endorsement. We are still in deep trouble with these guys.