08-20-2014, 02:09 PM
Quote:The National Guard has been deployed in all of the recent military conflicts the US has been involved with.
I thought so...but I wasn't sure. Thanks!
08-20-2014, 02:09 PM
08-20-2014, 02:50 PM
They shouldn't have been...
Good luck finding a full auto anything. You can make an AR full auto with hacksaw blade but, I wouldn't recommend it.... 10 years in prison and a $250k fine could be in your future.
I carry a gun, because a cop is just too damn heavy.
Good luck finding a full auto anything. You can make an AR full auto with hacksaw blade but, I wouldn't recommend it.... 10 years in prison and a $250k fine could be in your future.
I carry a gun, because a cop is just too damn heavy.
08-20-2014, 02:52 PM
Quote:They shouldn't have been...
Good luck finding a full auto anything. You can make an AR full auto with hacksaw blade but, I wouldn't recommend it.... 10 years in prison and a $250k fine could be in your future.
I carry a gun, because a cop is just too damn heavy.
AK47 is easier conversion, but it's not worth doing. Full auto waste to much ammo for me.
08-20-2014, 03:00 PM
Quote:They shouldn't have been...Amen.
Good luck finding a full auto anything. You can make an AR full auto with hacksaw blade but, I wouldn't recommend it.... 10 years in prison and a $250k fine could be in your future.
I carry a gun, because a cop is just too damn heavy.
08-20-2014, 03:03 PM
Are we discussing how cops should be armed?
After viewing the antics of the " upset people over justice" by shooting at cops, throwing urine on them, looting and destroying innocent businesses.... Give them bazookas for all I care. Flame throwers. These critters only know force.
Sitting down and a having rational dialogue with hoodlums that have no respect for justice but through mob rule, excuse agendas and a few free cartons of smokes and bottles of gin isn't going to happen.
Playing peace keeper here or in this screwed up world has proved to be fruitless.
After viewing the antics of the " upset people over justice" by shooting at cops, throwing urine on them, looting and destroying innocent businesses.... Give them bazookas for all I care. Flame throwers. These critters only know force.
Sitting down and a having rational dialogue with hoodlums that have no respect for justice but through mob rule, excuse agendas and a few free cartons of smokes and bottles of gin isn't going to happen.
Playing peace keeper here or in this screwed up world has proved to be fruitless.
08-20-2014, 03:21 PM
Quote:Are we discussing how cops should be armed?You're right. The mentality of the mob currently occupying Ferguson won't be placated by friendly talk and a nice warm hug. The cops need to do whatever is necessary to meet the force of the mob with equal or more force in order to try to get this under control. The problem is, they're paralyzed to do anything due to the fact that the perception will be abuse of power, and the usual suspects will be racing to find cameras to castigate the police for trying to protect the population in general.
After viewing the antics of the " upset people over justice" by shooting at cops, throwing urine on them, looting and destroying innocent businesses.... Give them bazookas for all I care. Flame throwers. These critters only know force.
Sitting down and a having rational dialogue with hoodlums that have no respect for justice but through mob rule, excuse agendas and a few free cartons of smokes and bottles of gin isn't going to happen.
Playing peace keeper here or in this screwed up world has proved to be fruitless.
08-20-2014, 03:30 PM
Quote:Are we discussing how cops should be armed?
After viewing the antics of the " upset people over justice" by shooting at cops, throwing urine on them, looting and destroying innocent businesses.... Give them bazookas for all I care. Flame throwers. These critters only know force.
Sitting down and a having rational dialogue with hoodlums that have no respect for justice but through mob rule, excuse agendas and a few free cartons of smokes and bottles of gin isn't going to happen.
Playing peace keeper here or in this screwed up world has proved to be fruitless.
This is where I disagree with republicans. Please Ringo don't take this as all directed at you, but your post illustrates a problem.
The right is ok with a militarized police force because right now TODAY it's being used to counter what conservatives view as an out of control black population in urban areas. No one's denying this group in Ferguson is out of control, but when you have a city in a war like zone it becomes a problem for the national guard not the local police. Giving the local police military weapons and gear to beat the public into submission is only going to further divide them.
Now shift your focus back to the big picture, it's all dandy when the police go into the ghettos. What about when they come marching down rural America? What about when one day they get enough people in congress to decide Mr and Mrs. America turn them all in, no more rifles for you America those belong in the hands of soldiers and police only they'll say. Will you still be happy the police coming to take your guns have been militarized?
I refuse to believe an entire sector of the American population is beyond reasoning with, I refuse. I've lived in all kinds of area's during my adult life. From the outskirts of Jacksonville in St. Augustine, to the North Side on Lem Turner, to the Suburbs of Palm Coast, to the Rural Farm Lands of Putnam County, never have I meet any one group that is beyond reason. You know what I've found, people are frustrated, frustrated that they don't have a voice. That voice has been stolen by government and like it or not, regardless if the local guy you know is one heck of a dude, the police are the enforcement of that government.
So no sir, I don't endorse nor support militarizing the group of people that will one day inevitable march down my dirt road seeking to take what the government has deemed I'm no longer entitled to own.
Liberty or death, even when I disagree with the practice.
08-20-2014, 03:31 PM
Quote:You're right. The mentality of the mob currently occupying Ferguson won't be placated by friendly talk and a nice warm hug. The cops need to do whatever is necessary to meet the force of the mob with equal or more force in order to try to get this under control. The problem is, they're paralyzed to do anything due to the fact that the perception will be abuse of power, and the usual suspects will be racing to find cameras to castigate the police for trying to protect the population in general.
The National Guard's job is to restore order, the police should be out of there at this point.
08-20-2014, 04:35 PM
Quote:The cop was/ is a bad cop. However, he was attempting to do his job. He executed his responsibility very poorly and if what you are claiming the cop did actually did go down as accurately as you cite, then that cop should be punished to the maximum extent. That said, that doesn't equate (or excuse) with rioting/ looting/ mayhem and attempted murder(S) as in plural that the savages are doing. Amazing that you are seriously trying to equate the 2.
After more of the facts have become available, I retract my comment about the cop being a "bad cop".
08-20-2014, 05:13 PM
![[Image: police.jpg]](http://hw.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/police.jpg)
08-20-2014, 05:37 PM
Quote:
I doubt very much, Jefferson at least, would have agreed with the sentiment WWTFFD (What would the founding father's do). Especially given his quote:
Quote:
“No society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation…Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19 years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force and not of right.”
08-20-2014, 06:26 PM
Quote:Yes, but we won't be hearing from him on this.
If anybody is not religious of course not, but I am.
He will reveal the truth one way or another.
Quote:He can't be racist or bigoted. He's a democrat. They're never such things.
Sincerely,
Senator Robert Byrd
Former US Senator
Exalted Cyclops, KKK
Either you are desperate for attention now, or just being extremely petty.
Take your pick.
Quote:He wasn't saying anything derogatory about God...he just said that we won't be actually hearing what he says on the matter.
gotcha.
08-20-2014, 07:29 PM
All this because a cop shot a FELON.
08-20-2014, 07:37 PM
It's interesting to see the different perspectives of people with regard to police officers.
One important thing to remember. EVERY police officer on the job is HUMAN. Humans are by no means perfect.
Perhaps someone had a bad encounter with a police officer where they thought that the officer was being a "bully" or not being particularly "polite". I would guess that the far majority of the general public don't really know what it's like in the day of a police officer, or how they are trained. Much of the training is centered around self defense, and there is a reason for it. When you put the uniform on you become an instant target, no matter if you live in an urban area, a rural area or a suburb. Just one small example. Ever wonder why if you get stopped at night the spotlight is shinning a particular way? Ever wonder why the cop doesn't stand towards the front part of your car door? Those are small subtle tactics that are used by police to protect themselves.
Police officers also deal with much more than writing tickets or dealing with thugs "just walking down the street". When and/or if you encounter a police officer, you don't know what he has seen or had to deal with not long before your encounter. I could list things that I saw during my short time as a Deputy Sheriff that would probably make some people squirm just a bit. Here are a few examples that I had to do that are not particularly gruesome, but kind of gives the idea of what these men and woman do every day.
There is no describing how it feels to inform a mother and father that their teenage child was just killed by a drunk driver. What about informing a family that you just saw their loved one take their last breath after putting a gun in their mouth and pulling the trigger? How about just leaving a domestic dispute where one party beat the other so bad that they were in critical condition and it's clear that the victim would need facial reconstruction surgery?
I left the Sheriff's Office after a somewhat brief career because I did not want to deal with the stress anymore. It wasn't so much about seeing the death and people hurt so much, it was more about dealing with the aftermath, then having to deal with the public who treats you like you are an "inconvenience" or a "bother". It was about not knowing if the next car that you stop or the next call that you answer was going to result in more violence or sadness.
One other thing that is stressed during training is liability. Any action that you take as a police officer must not only be lawful, but you are responsible for the outcome. Move an accident victim and it results in further injury? You are liable. Wrongfully discharge your weapon and kill or injure someone? You are liable. That's why I posted earlier something to the effect that no police officer is going to shoot someone that is obviously surrendering or complying with your orders.
However, quite a few people seem to think that there are a bunch of people that become police officers because they "have a superiority complex". They just don't understand or know what these men and women actually do.
As far as arming police forces more, I think in this day and age it's not a bad thing. As I said before, when you put the uniform on, you become an instant target. When an event happens in your jurisdiction that results in what you are seeing in Ferguson, then you need to be equipped to do as you swore, that being to uphold the law.
One important thing to remember. EVERY police officer on the job is HUMAN. Humans are by no means perfect.
Perhaps someone had a bad encounter with a police officer where they thought that the officer was being a "bully" or not being particularly "polite". I would guess that the far majority of the general public don't really know what it's like in the day of a police officer, or how they are trained. Much of the training is centered around self defense, and there is a reason for it. When you put the uniform on you become an instant target, no matter if you live in an urban area, a rural area or a suburb. Just one small example. Ever wonder why if you get stopped at night the spotlight is shinning a particular way? Ever wonder why the cop doesn't stand towards the front part of your car door? Those are small subtle tactics that are used by police to protect themselves.
Police officers also deal with much more than writing tickets or dealing with thugs "just walking down the street". When and/or if you encounter a police officer, you don't know what he has seen or had to deal with not long before your encounter. I could list things that I saw during my short time as a Deputy Sheriff that would probably make some people squirm just a bit. Here are a few examples that I had to do that are not particularly gruesome, but kind of gives the idea of what these men and woman do every day.
There is no describing how it feels to inform a mother and father that their teenage child was just killed by a drunk driver. What about informing a family that you just saw their loved one take their last breath after putting a gun in their mouth and pulling the trigger? How about just leaving a domestic dispute where one party beat the other so bad that they were in critical condition and it's clear that the victim would need facial reconstruction surgery?
I left the Sheriff's Office after a somewhat brief career because I did not want to deal with the stress anymore. It wasn't so much about seeing the death and people hurt so much, it was more about dealing with the aftermath, then having to deal with the public who treats you like you are an "inconvenience" or a "bother". It was about not knowing if the next car that you stop or the next call that you answer was going to result in more violence or sadness.
One other thing that is stressed during training is liability. Any action that you take as a police officer must not only be lawful, but you are responsible for the outcome. Move an accident victim and it results in further injury? You are liable. Wrongfully discharge your weapon and kill or injure someone? You are liable. That's why I posted earlier something to the effect that no police officer is going to shoot someone that is obviously surrendering or complying with your orders.
However, quite a few people seem to think that there are a bunch of people that become police officers because they "have a superiority complex". They just don't understand or know what these men and women actually do.
As far as arming police forces more, I think in this day and age it's not a bad thing. As I said before, when you put the uniform on, you become an instant target. When an event happens in your jurisdiction that results in what you are seeing in Ferguson, then you need to be equipped to do as you swore, that being to uphold the law.
08-20-2014, 08:08 PM
JagIBelieve, I'm not ignoring what police face every day, but none of what you mentioned requires the police to be armed to fight war campaigns as if they where on the streets of Iraq.
08-20-2014, 09:41 PM
I wouldn't sign up to be a cop, they face uncertainty every time they leave for work...Had a guy from down south of here told me "I just hope to go home at night with the same number of holes I left with this morning". Especially since they do it for peanuts.
I do however agree with Eric that the police do not need to have military surplus equipment. There's no place for MRAPs on the streets of a US city at this point. The build up of local police and their counterparts is part of a plan.
I do however agree with Eric that the police do not need to have military surplus equipment. There's no place for MRAPs on the streets of a US city at this point. The build up of local police and their counterparts is part of a plan.
08-20-2014, 11:41 PM
Quote:JagIBelieve, I'm not ignoring what police face every day, but none of what you mentioned requires the police to be armed to fight war campaigns as if they where on the streets of Iraq.
You would have preferred to wait for the National Guard in Aurora? Or Newtown?
Or are the cops supposed to run in there bare chested, armed with their fists?
08-21-2014, 02:22 AM
Quote:You would have preferred to wait for the National Guard in Aurora? Or Newtown?I'm pretty sure that isn't what he's saying. I don't think body armor and effective arms are on the table in his argument. It's about the real military gear PD's around the nation are acquiring like heavy vehicles and the like. I agree with that.
Or are the cops supposed to run in there bare chested, armed with their fists?
08-21-2014, 05:59 AM
Quote:You would have preferred to wait for the National Guard in Aurora? Or Newtown?
Or are the cops supposed to run in there bare chested, armed with their fists?
Where have I suggested that? In the cases of aurora and newton police didn't need tanks mrap grenade launchers and such.
I'd also argue both of those tragedies where avoidable they happened in gun free zones and states with heavy restrictions on private citizens carrying. One again a militarized police force was helpless to do anything to save those lives.
08-21-2014, 07:50 AM
Quote:Where have I suggested that? In the cases of aurora and newton police didn't need tanks mrap grenade launchers and such.
I'd also argue both of those tragedies where avoidable they happened in gun free zones and states with heavy restrictions on private citizens carrying. One again a militarized police force was helpless to do anything to save those lives.
Lol, I laugh at your view of police. When things hit the fan and the first responders are there to help you out, I will remind you that the weapons at their disposal contributed to your safety.
It's just funny that the people that dislike cops, will call them when they are in trouble. You continue to express your view in what seems like the whole, not a few.