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Quote:The suspect was shot multiple times.  Was the first hit in the back?  We don't know that.  I can guarantee that an officer is not going to shoot a suspect running away from them with their hands up.

 

As a side note, an officer does have the right to shoot a fleeing felon in the back.  I'm not saying that this is what happened, but if a fleeing suspect is a danger to society, then the officer can stop the suspect by whatever means necessary up to and including deadly force.

 

If people are so enraged about the protocol that police have, then they need to spend a day in the life of a police officer.  I'm 5'7 and weigh about 140 if I'm soaking wet.  If I am a police officer and encounter a "model citizen" who is 6'4 and around 292 that happens to be "just walking down the street blocking traffic" I'm going to take precautions when approaching this person.  Nothing has been revealed as to how the initial exchange took place.

 

My theory is that the suspect became aggressive initially, and when confronted with deadly force, decided to run away.

 

Like it or not, police DO in fact profile people and make decisions based on that.  Profiling is not really based on race, it's based on "perceived danger".  Race can come into play based on location and circumstances.

 

Contrary to what is being said and implied, police don't just go out shooting people for no reason.
 

Not all police, but you have to admit it happens.

 

Regardless if the kid was guilty of stealing $50 cigars or not the shooting stinks. Why did the police wait almost a week to release this information if was an open and closed clean shooting? 
Quote:Not all police, but you have to admit it happens.

 

Regardless if the kid was guilty of stealing $50 cigars or not the shooting stinks. Why did the police wait almost a week to release this information if was an open and closed clean shooting? 
Have you been watching the news?  This police officer has a family and a life outside of the force.  You think this mob mentality and vigilante justice wouldn't have landed on his front yard? 
Quote:Not all police, but you have to admit it happens.

 

Regardless if the kid was guilty of stealing $50 cigars or not the shooting stinks. Why did the police wait almost a week to release this information if was an open and closed clean shooting? 
 

First of all, yes it does sometimes happen in extremely rare circumstances.  99% of all police officers do not go around shooting people for no apparent reason.

 

Nobody is saying that it's an "open and closed clean shooting".

 

All that I am saying is the only FACTS about the case that we know about is what the media reports.  Looking at what is being reported, the "child" was not an innocent person just walking to the store to get some skittles.  The guy was a thug and up to no good.  We haven't heard the other side of the story, that being what the police officer saw and encountered.

 

Was the shooting justified?  There is no saying one way or the other at this point.  All that we have are theories.  The media is trying desperately to paint this as some kind of racial issue along with "Reverend Jack Son" equating it to a "state execution".  Where was all of the outrage and statements made when some black thugs executed a white baby?  How much looting and rioting took place after that?

 

My theory is that this "model citizen" provoked the officer in some way to not only draw his weapon, but to actually force him to make the choice to use deadly force.

 

Where in the media is the side of the story of the police officer being reported?
Quote:Have you been watching the news?  This police officer has a family and a life outside of the force.  You think this mob mentality and vigilante justice wouldn't have landed on his front yard? 
 

The mob and riots didn't start until after the department was silent about what was going on. All we new for the first four days was a cop shot an unarmed 18 year old. 

 

I'm not justifying the riots just asking why they're dragging their feet giving evidence this was a clean shooting. 
Quote:First of all, yes it does sometimes happen in extremely rare circumstances.  99% of all police officers do not go around shooting people for no apparent reason.

 

Nobody is saying that it's an "open and closed clean shooting".

 

All that I am saying is the only FACTS about the case that we know about is what the media reports.  Looking at what is being reported, the "child" was not an innocent person just walking to the store to get some skittles.  The guy was a thug and up to no good.  We haven't heard the other side of the story, that being what the police officer saw and encountered.

 

Was the shooting justified?  There is no saying one way or the other at this point.  All that we have are theories.  The media is trying desperately to paint this as some kind of racial issue along with "Reverend Jack Son" equating it to a "state execution".  Where was all of the outrage and statements made when some black thugs executed a white baby?  How much looting and rioting took place after that?

 

My theory is that this "model citizen" provoked the officer in some way to not only draw his weapon, but to actually force him to make the choice to use deadly force.

 

Where in the media is the side of the story of the police officer being reported?
 

That number is a little generous, wasn't it just 2 years ago JSO shot an old man for yelling at what he thought was drug dealers on his front yard. He told them to get lost and the JSO that was working undercover shot the old man.

 

point is the kid probably was up to no good, but when did that become a justifiable reason to shot him? Officers are to up hold the law not execute judgement. If the kid was going for the gun lets see the evidence than you take ALL the wind out of the mobs sails. 

 

When a citizen is shot it's on the authority to PROVE it's a clean shooting, it's not on the public to assume and accept it was a clean shooting. 
Quote:Not all police, but you have to admit it happens.

 

Regardless if the kid was guilty of stealing $50 cigars or not the shooting stinks. Why did the police wait almost a week to release this information if was an open and closed clean shooting? 
 

Why would anyone do anything of such magnitude without having their T's crossed and I's dotted?  Another factor may have been that their resources were overwhelmed, with, you know, a week long riot.

 

I don't understand all this outrage.  Even if this cop acted in the most egregious manner and was a stone cold murderer and executed him while he was blind folded and on his knees, how does this happen?  It's not like the cop was acquitted of anything.  It was only days afterwards.  What did the community want?  A trial, conviction, and execution by that evening?  I shake my head that so many in this country lack all common sense.

 

As far as the militarization of the police, what would you expect to happen after a night of destruction?  The initial protests weren't met with militarization.  It wasn't until the protests became non peaceful that police began to arm themselves, and rightfully so.  The police are citizens of the United States, just like you and I.  They have the right to arm themselves and protect themselves from possible violence from a destructive mob.  It's not like the police began using lethal force on the mob.  If you support the 2nd amendment and the right of private citizens to carry armed in public if they so wish, then you'd be a hypocrite to not support police who do the same thing.

 

Police use-of-force training teaches all police officers to stay one level of force above what a subject presents them.  If a person is resistant, he may get tackled or sprayed, and in certain situations, tazed.  If a person is assaultive, he may be punched, batoned, tazed, or whatever short of lethal means.  If a subject has the means, opportunity, and intent to cause serious bodily harm to an officer or someone else, then lethal force is permited.  Means doesn't necessarily mean having a weapon, it can be a situation where an officer is confronted by someone much physically superior, outnumbered, or where the officer is physically exhausted and can no longer fight.  Opportunity means a cop can't shoot someone with a knife that's behind bars, but someone with a knife that's 20 feet away has the opportunity.  Opportunity also involves when the officer is outmatched, outnumbered, or exhausted.  And intent is when a reasonable officer believes that should a subject achieve means and opportunity, then his life would be in danger.

 

In this case, a 300 pound man that has cornered an officer into a car and is fighting with him almost meets all criterion.  A 300 pound man already has means by his size.  In this case he also had opportunity by getting on top of an officer in a cruiser.  The only thing that has to be proven in order for this to be a good shoot is the intent.  If it can be proven that the man reached for his gun, intent is proven.  If the man harmed the officer, intent is proven.  I think in this case, all three were met.  If in the immediacy of the deadly force encounter the subject hopped off him when the first shot was discharged and then was shot in the back, its still a good shoot.  The subject would have to had been far enough away from the officer where he no longer had opportunity to cause him any further harm.  In real life, you can't put an officer in a deadly force scenario and then when he draws his gun, suddenly give up and not expect the possibility of being shot (the shooting being completely subjective to whether that individual officer still felt he was threatened or not.)
Quote: If the kid was going for the gun lets see the evidence than you take ALL the wind out of the mobs sails. 

 

When a citizen is shot it's on the authority to PROVE it's a clean shooting, it's not on the public to assume and accept it was a clean shooting. 
 

The officer's word is the evidence.  If you mean video evidence is required before a cop uses any use of force, then you are going to have a lot of cops being seriously injured and killed.

 

You are completely wrong.  It's not on the authorities to PROVE its a clean shooting.  Innocent until proven guilty.  It's on the DA to prove the cop acted beyond what any reasonable officer in his situation would have done and then prosecute based on evidence.  It's not a public vs police department thing.  It's a public vs joe the cop thing.
Quote:The officer's word is the evidence.  If you mean video evidence is required before a cop uses any use of force, then you are going to have a lot of cops being seriously injured and killed.

 

You are completely wrong.  It's not on the authorities to PROVE its a clean shooting.  Innocent until proven guilty.  It's on the DA to prove the cop acted beyond what any reasonable officer in his situation would have done and then prosecute based on evidence.  It's not a public vs police department thing.  It's a public vs joe the cop thing.
 

Absolutely it's on the authorities to prove why the used deadly force. innocent until proven guilty is our legal system, but If  I shoot someone on my property I still have to prove why I shoot that person. 

 

An officer's word is no more evidence than anyone else's word. 

You want to know why people don't trust the police?

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/increasing-...ar/5361554

 

It's not an isolated incident. Often we only hear about it when race is involved but that doesn't change the reality a militarized police force leads to more aggressive police behavior and inevitable a more tyrannical rule over the public.

 

It's protect and serve not stop and detain. 

Quote:Absolutely it's on the authorities to prove why the used deadly force. innocent until proven guilty is our legal system, but If  I shoot someone on my property I still have to prove why I shoot that person. 

 

An officer's word is no more evidence than anyone else's word. 
 

Negative.  If you shoot someone on your property and you say that it was in self defense, there is no DA that will indict you unless their is evidence to the contrary.  The "authorities" aren't going to jail.  Its the individual officer.

 

And you're wrong again.  An officer's word carries more weight than your average joe in court.  An officer usually loses his job if caught up in a lie in court or even just lying to his bosses about who spilled coffee in the patrol car.  The reason being is that a defense attorney will pick apart any officer's testimony if he has ever shown to be untruthful in the past.  Every case the cop has that goes to court will be dismissed in the future. 
Quote:You want to know why people don't trust the police?

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/increasing-...ar/5361554

 

It's not an isolated incident. Often we only hear about it when race is involved but that doesn't change the reality a militarized police force leads to more aggressive police behavior and inevitable a more tyrannical rule over the public.

 

It's protect and serve not stop and detain. 
 

Yes, 5000 have been killed and I'm sure a great majority of it was justified.  2000 cops were also killed, almost none of which were justified.
Quote:Negative.  If you shoot someone on your property and you say that it was in self defense, there is no DA that will indict you unless their is evidence to the contrary.  The "authorities" aren't going to jail.  Its the individual officer.

 

And you're wrong again.  An officer's word carries more weight than your average joe in court.  An officer usually loses his job if caught up in a lie in court or even just lying to his bosses about who spilled coffee in the patrol car.  The reason being is that a defense attorney will pick apart any officer's testimony if he has ever shown to be untruthful in the past.  Every case the cop has that goes to court will be dismissed in the future. 
 

Being held to a higher standard because of a position of authority doesn't change the weight of legality in a prosecution. The word of any suspect, officer or not, is not evidence. 

 

If I shoot someone on my property and claim self defense they first confiscate my weapon and then open an investigation. Based upon that investigation the DA decides weather on not to press any charges. That's not the same as me shooting someone and saying self defense case closed.

 

The officer shot an unarmed man, it's on the authorities to prove their was justification for lethal force. That's the law. 
Also, on average... One in approximately 300,000 people in the world die per year in lightning strikes.  One in approximately 600,000 people in the United States are killed by police officers per year.  

Quote:Being held to a higher standard because of a position of authority doesn't change the weight of legality in a prosecution. The word of any suspect, officer or not, is not evidence. 

 

If I shoot someone on my property and claim self defense they first confiscate my weapon and then open an investigation. Based upon that investigation the DA decides weather on not to press any charges. That's not the same as me shooting someone and saying self defense case closed.

 

The officer shot an unarmed man, it's on the authorities to prove their was justification for lethal force. That's the law. 
 

You have absolutely 0 clue about the law.

 

Testimony is evidence.  An officer's testimony carries more weight in court than john doe.  Case closed.  There is no arguing this.  

 

And exactly, you shoot someone and then its up to the DA to PROVE you did something wrong.  Same with cops.  They shoot someone and its up to a DA to PROVE they did something wrong.  It's simple.

 

Show me the law that states "authorities" must "prove their [sic] was justification for lethal force."
Quote:Also, on average... One in approximately 300,000 people in the world die per year in lightning strikes.  One in approximately 600,000 people in the United States are killed by police officers per year.  
 

DOJ estimates 400-500 per year innocent civilians killed by police. 
Quote:DOJ estimates 400-500 per year innocent civilians killed by police. 
 

Do the math.  Approximately 1 in 600,000 or so, right?
Quote:You have absolutely 0 clue about the law.

 

Testimony is evidence.  An officer's testimony carries more weight in court than john doe.  Case closed.  There is no arguing this.  

 

And exactly, you shoot someone and then its up to the DA to PROVE you did something wrong.  Same with cops.  They shoot someone and its up to a DA to PROVE they did something wrong.  It's simple.

 

Show me the law that states "authorities" must "prove their [sic] was justification for lethal force."
 

The law requires the Division of Criminal Justice to investigate whenever a law enforcement officer, while performing his or her duties, uses deadly physical force that causes someone's death. It must also determine whether the officer's use of deadly physical force was appropriate under standards established by statute and submit a report of its findings and conclusions to the chief state's attorney. The division is a state executive branch agency headed by the chief state's attorney, and is in charge of the investigation and prosecution of all criminal matters in the Superior Court.

 

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0074.htm

 

absolutely an investigation must prove the officer was justified using lethal force. 
Quote:Do the math.  Approximately 1 in 600,000 or so, right?
 

I don't care what the averages are, that's far to many. That's more citizens killed by police in a decade than we lost soldiers in Iraq. 
Quote:The law requires the Division of Criminal Justice to investigate whenever a law enforcement officer, while performing his or her duties, uses deadly physical force that causes someone's death. It must also determine whether the officer's use of deadly physical force was appropriate under standards established by statute and submit a report of its findings and conclusions to the chief state's attorney. The division is a state executive branch agency headed by the chief state's attorney, and is in charge of the investigation and prosecution of all criminal matters in the Superior Court.

 

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0074.htm

 

absolutely an investigation must prove the officer was justified using lethal force. 
 

Nothing must be proved.  The investigation must prove the officer acted beyond what a reasonable officer would do in the same situation.  AKA, the burden of proof in on the prosecution (and in this case, it's not even the prosecution), not the defense.  Never, ever, ever has the burden of proof ever been on a defense.  If it has been, its been ruled unconstitutional.

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