Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Oh, no.....you got it all wrong....he was just misunderstood. 

 

So tired of the lack of accountability and responsibility that people waive for people that deserve it. You see it everywhere - even parents with their kids anymore....it used to be if we got in trouble in school, we'd get the belt and disciplined/ grounded. Nowadays if kids get in trouble at school, its usually seen as the schools fault by the parents - not little Johnny's fault, and time to sue the school. 

 

 

'Murica today....  <puke>

That's what happens when liberals try to actually take care of a country.

 

Phil Robertson is more dangerous to them than ISIS.

 

Just follow their outrage. Their enemies are all domestic, and they don't have time for "real" enemies.

Quote:That's what happens when liberals try to actually take care of a country.

 

Phil Robertson is more dangerous to them than ISIS.

 

Just follow their outrage. Their enemies are all domestic, and they don't have time for "real" enemies.

Yes, tell me about how conservatives never fling outrage at domestic enemies like the war on christmas.

 

Let's not pretend each side doesn't have their own silly agendas. 

 

Just because they are not calling for mass genocide doesn't mean they don't see the threat for what it is and want something done about it. This idea that only conservatives are concerned is just nonsense. 

They aren't concerned enough about it to secure the border are they?

Quote:They aren't concerned enough about it to secure the border are they?

its the only way they can keep gaining Democrat voters.

Quote:its the only way they can keep gaining Democrat voters.

The GOP policies are sooooo enticing for non rich white men isn't it? Thinking like this is why so many people are disillusioned by the right. 

Quote:The GOP policies are sooooo enticing for non rich white men isn't it? Thinking like this is why so many people are disillusioned by the right.

I hear this a lot but I honesty want to know what polices of the GOP are you talking about?


I'm not a fan of the GOP but the democrats do more to hurt the poor than anyone so let's explore this, which polices of the GOP are you referring to?

Their policies are all the same. The amount of difference between the two is laughable.

Quote:The GOP policies are sooooo enticing for non rich white men isn't it? Thinking like this is why so many people are disillusioned by the right. 

 

For the non-rich (any color and not just white) man working harder and smarter to get rich and not rely on govt support, you betcha.

Quote:I hear this a lot but I honesty want to know what polices of the GOP are you talking about?


I'm not a fan of the GOP but the democrats do more to hurt the poor than anyone so let's explore this, which polices of the GOP are you referring to?

Voter ID is a good place to start. I understand this specter of voter fraud as why conservatives think they lose some elections but it's clearly been pushed forward as way to disenfranchise minorities. Immigration rhetoric is seen by latinos extremely negatively. Their stance on women's health is insulting to a huge portion of women. The majority of the leadership in the party are rich old white men. They promote "regulations" or "deregulations" for the sole purpose of getting the top 1% (mostly rich old  white men) to get even more filthy rich. They want to keep the lower class from having wages increase in any real meaningful way. 

 

I like your stance on a lot of issues and I definitely like your passion for your beliefs but I do not believe for a second you don't know why the GOP is perceived in this manner. 

Quote:Voter ID is a good place to start.

 

For something so ubiquitous to every day life to be vilified so greatly ascribes a less that honorable intention to the actor.

 

Quote:Illegal Immigration rhetoric is seen by latinos extremely negatively.

 

Their stance on women's health is insulting to a huge portion of women. And the opposing stance is insulting to a huge number of women also. And when 120 to 140 boys are born to every 1oo girls then the "War on Women" is actually being fought in the womb.

 

The majority of the leadership in the party are rich old white men. And this is true in the opposition party as well.

 

They promote "regulations" or "deregulations" for the sole purpose of getting the top 1% (mostly rich old  white men) to get even more filthy rich. They want to keep the lower class from having wages increase in any real meaningful way.  These are baseless suppositions, and the regulation reform issues during the Bush Admin were derailed by the Democrat-controlled Congress.

Quote:Voter ID is a good place to start. I understand this specter of voter fraud as why conservatives think they lose some elections but it's clearly been pushed forward as way to disenfranchise minorities. Immigration rhetoric is seen by latinos extremely negatively. Their stance on women's health is insulting to a huge portion of women. The majority of the leadership in the party are rich old white men. They promote "regulations" or "deregulations" for the sole purpose of getting the top 1% (mostly rich old  white men) to get even more filthy rich. They want to keep the lower class from having wages increase in any real meaningful way. 

 

I like your stance on a lot of issues and I definitely like your passion for your beliefs but I do not believe for a second you don't know why the GOP is perceived in this manner. 

 

Ok let's go topic by topic you have some valid points and others I'd like to explore with you,

 

Voter ID - I would accept this is an attempt to disenfranchise minorities if I could find anyone that was asking individuals to pay for a voter ID, or make people jump through hopes to acquire an ID, but asking people to present an ID when voting isn't any different then asking people to provide ID for any other numerous activities. It's not even about fraud it's about accountability, how are we supposed to verify the people voting are citizens without ID? I've never seen someone suggest only minorities show ID, it's always been everyone should show ID.

 

Abortion - the same amount of women that find the GOP's stance against abortion offending you have women that find the Pro-Abortion stance offending so this one's a wash. I don't see how it could possible be perceived as making the GOP only for rich old white guys. The Black Community is the biggest victim of the the Abortion Business. Abortion clinics are always in minority communities that's by design so if anyone is looking to reduce the minority population you can DIRECTLY associate that with the Abortion Business.

 

Leadership - Absolutely 100% correct, the GOP is the least diversified party in the American Political system. I think there's some change in that coming but honestly the leadership is so stuck on big social government and foreign expansion it's driving many away from the party.

 

Deregulation - I know we're going to disagree here and that's ok I get where you're coming from. However consider this from 2002-2007 during the meat of the Bush administration minority ownership of business grew by 46.5% and female ownership of business grew by 20.1%. Bush did plenty of stuff I don't like but like most republicans he was pretty big on Deregulating what he could where he could.

 

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases...0-107.html

 

I still argue deregulation HELPS minorities and women more than anything. Yes big corporations are easy targets to point at and examples why we need SOME regulation, but when you give people the freedom and ability to excel you have more small business and that's the lifeblood of the American economy. Mom and Pop shops are the ones hurt by regulation, they don't have the lobbyist in Washington buying off politicians so they can be exempt.

 

Minimum Wage - probably the most destructive form of legislation against the poor. Regardless of race or gender the minimum wage drives inflation and only leads to more automation of entry level jobs.

 

Immigration - when Democrats push for state sponsored scholarships for illegals, welfare for illegals, and all for the sole purpose of planting the seed of voter loyalty down the road they're taking from the working poor already in America. The more scholarships given to illegal immigrants is less money for the working poor and minority community already here. The more welfare spent on illegal immigration is less welfare for the working poor already here. So many of the jobs that where once available to the working poor are now exclusively held by illegal immigrants working for cash under the table. At one point in time construction was a GREAT opportunity for low skilled workers to learn a trade and work up the economic ladder. Same goes for the lawn service industry, landscaping, flooring, and so on. The Democrats deliberate creation of a shadow economy (that's the inevitable result of illegal immigration) is a direct assault on the minority communities.

Quote:Ok let's go topic by topic you have some valid points and others I'd like to explore with you,

 

Voter ID - I would accept this is an attempt to disenfranchise minorities if I could find anyone that was asking individuals to pay for a voter ID, or make people jump through hopes to acquire an ID, but asking people to present an ID when voting isn't any different then asking people to provide ID for any other numerous activities. It's not even about fraud it's about accountability, how are we supposed to verify the people voting are citizens without ID? I've never seen someone suggest only minorities show ID, it's always been everyone should show ID.

 

Abortion - the same amount of women that find the GOP's stance against abortion offending you have women that find the Pro-Abortion stance offending so this one's a wash. I don't see how it could possible be perceived as making the GOP only for rich old white guys. The Black Community is the biggest victim of the the Abortion Business. Abortion clinics are always in minority communities that's by design so if anyone is looking to reduce the minority population you can DIRECTLY associate that with the Abortion Business.

 

Leadership - Absolutely 100% correct, the GOP is the least diversified party in the American Political system. I think there's some change in that coming but honestly the leadership is so stuck on big social government and foreign expansion it's driving many away from the party.

 

Deregulation - I know we're going to disagree here and that's ok I get where you're coming from. However consider this from 2002-2007 during the meat of the Bush administration minority ownership of business grew by 46.5% and female ownership of business grew by 20.1%. Bush did plenty of stuff I don't like but like most republicans he was pretty big on Deregulating what he could where he could.

 

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases...0-107.html

 

I still argue deregulation HELPS minorities and women more than anything. Yes big corporations are easy targets to point at and examples why we need SOME regulation, but when you give people the freedom and ability to excel you have more small business and that's the lifeblood of the American economy. Mom and Pop shops are the ones hurt by regulation, they don't have the lobbyist in Washington buying off politicians so they can be exempt.

 

Minimum Wage - probably the most destructive form of legislation against the poor. Regardless of race or gender the minimum wage drives inflation and only leads to more automation of entry level jobs.

 

Immigration - when Democrats push for state sponsored scholarships for illegals, welfare for illegals, and all for the sole purpose of planting the seed of voter loyalty down the road they're taking from the working poor already in America. The more scholarships given to illegal immigrants is less money for the working poor and minority community already here. The more welfare spent on illegal immigration is less welfare for the working poor already here. So many of the jobs that where once available to the working poor are now exclusively held by illegal immigrants working for cash under the table. At one point in time construction was a GREAT opportunity for low skilled workers to learn a trade and work up the economic ladder. Same goes for the lawn service industry, landscaping, flooring, and so on. The Democrats deliberate creation of a shadow economy (that's the inevitable result of illegal immigration) is a direct assault on the minority communities.

First I didn't take stands on these for a reason. I presented them as to why the perception is what it is and the perception holds true for how various groups perceive the part as a whole. 

 

Voter ID - I don't have the exact quote but it was something along on the lines of voter ID is going to win us the election. Not because there is fraud but because it so very clearly disenfranchises various groups. It is obviously being pushed as way to get people not to vote versus being used as an accountability tool. This is very obvious. 

 

Abortion - I'd like to see reputable studies that's it's a wash. I just don't see that. The issue women have with this is very plain. 1. They believe it should be their choice. 2. I think the bigger problem is that the "conversation" typically includes men talking about the issue as if it's their bodies. I am sure you can see how that would be offensive to them. 

 

Regulation - I was more targeting at the fact that deregulation or cushy regulation allows the mega corps and borderline monopolies strengthen their grasp therefore making the rich EVEN richer at the expense of everyone else. I actually don't know enough about this to say how it effects small businesses. I am sure deregulation, in some areas, probably could help them thrive by allowing the costs to enter and to operate in markets lower and more sustainable. 

 

Minimum Wage - I don't see how anyone can be against this. It's a fundamental difference in the views of the pure greed of businesses. To allow businesses to pay even less then they already do but to assume they won't do that seems very short sighted in my opinion. Mega corps will immediately reduce wages across the board for the low end employees who can already barely survive. Then what? It's not like by doing this a slew of higher paying jobs will pop up. And these people can't just not take the jobs because they have to have something. There is already a discrepancy in the number of workers wanting better jobs compared to the amount of these jobs available. This is the paradox that getting rid of minimum wage that I can't see being resolved. How does getting rid of minimum wage resolve this?

 

Immigration - This is one of the main ones I pointed out the idea of perception at the beginning here. This is one of the biggest ones. I agree with the need for immigration reform. I agree with the right's idea that illegal immigration needs to be curbed and dealt with. I think a lot of the left does to, to some extent. The problem though is the vitriolic rhetoric that a lot of right wing politicians spew. It has morphed into being targeted towards all immigrants in some areas. Take AZ for example with the law that lets cops stop and check anyone looking mexican for legal papers because. That's a gross violation and things like that are perceived horribly.  Your second point here ties in greatly with minimum wage because it is very true and also a big problem. The agricultural and construction industries are full of under the table paying going on. Most of the time for wages way below minimum wage. Why? because there is a grip of people needing work and willing to do it for cheap. They take whatever is offered. 

 

Bottom line is the GOP has been seen as an exclusionary party. The left has pounced on this and have said and done what they can to perpetuate this. In some ways the perceptions are real and valid and some they are exasperated by other outside influences. 

Welp....now they're blocking traffic in St.Louis to bring attention to the Michael Brown shooting.

Maybe,with some luck, someone's brakes will fail. Christ! Enough.

lol they just want $15/hour to make fries.