Quote:We can compare his college production.
His college production was very similar to Tyson Alualu's college production.
Similarly, this club fell in love with both and overdrafted them.
So you really like that 'tweener' phrase, huh?
Quote:Despite the legitimate concerns I do hope he improves his weaknesses and comes out swinging. We need a pass rush bad.
Agree.
I believe everyone wants him to be the guy they drafted him to be.
But we need to prepare as if he's going to give us as much as he did last season. Need a vet and additional young blood at the position.
Quote:So you really like that 'tweener' phrase, huh?
Not sure where you're going with "like," but it is a word and I do use it where and when appropriate. Fits better than the nebulous "edge" tag.
In college, Fowler was first OLB. He wasn't great there, but flashed talent as a Freshman. I can only guess they had him add weight when they put him on the line his Soph year, where his numbers where still nothing special. His third year he dropped roughly 15 pounds, where his sack numbers increased (still under double digits) though this was aided by a three sack game (over a third of his year's production.)
A tweener is a guy who doesn't project as a fit at either OLB or DE. Maybe that's what they're looking for in "LEO." Who knows, we haven't met "LEO" yet in this scheme. Tweener does, however, accurately describe the way he was handled at UF and where he fits in the NFL. Perhaps you didn't know the definition, but there it is - and he's an example.
Quote:Not sure where you're going with "like," but it is a word and I do use it where and when appropriate. Fits better than the nebulous "edge" tag.
In college, Fowler was first OLB. He wasn't great there, but flashed talent as a Freshman. I can only guess they had him add weight when they put him on the line his Soph year, where his numbers where still nothing special. His third year he dropped roughly 15 pounds, where his sack numbers increased (still under double digits) though this was aided by a three sack game (over a third of his year's production.)
A tweener is a guy who doesn't project as a fit at either OLB or DE. Maybe that's what they're looking for in "LEO." Who knows, we haven't met "LEO" yet in this scheme. Tweener does, however, accurately describe the way he was handled at UF and where he fits in the NFL. Perhaps you didn't know the definition, but there it is - and he's an example.
Golly gee. Thanks. I feel so [BLEEP] educated.
I'll wait to see him play but I have my doubts. Maybe he won't be a Clowney LOL. I just remember some of the FL draft picks and they didn't show much of anything. So people talk about him in college but college is over and he didn't even make it through the 1st day of rookie training camp.
just saying.
Quote:I see you left out the other pass rusher who was also widely speculated as a top pick, had much better college production, fantastic measurables, nearly perfect scheme fit, and finished as PFFs (I know LOL PFF rite) highest rated rookie DE with more than double the pass rush grade of the next highest rookie pass rusher.
Vic Beasley? Dude was soft as hell this season.
I can't believe we are ten pages deep on a thread which such a ridiculous premise. Let the guy play a meaningful down before you start throwing shade.
Quote:OK,exactly how do you know where scouts and Gms had him ranked?Here are some rankings....not mock drafts
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...-prospects
http://www.nfl.com/top50
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...y-position
These were the first 4 links on google when I searched for 2015 draft player rankings
I think Bucky Brooks is right that Fowler is Ahmad Brooks at the NFL level. Not a bad player by any means, but he's a complementary piece on a team that already has a pass rusher. His workout numbers are even almost identical to Brooks' and like Brooks he played at different weights in college and was very versatile. Only difference is that Fowler doesn't have the off field troubles of Brooks and maybe plays with more of a motor and intensity. Brooks' proday numbers:
<b>(he was measured at 6-foot-3, 260 pounds) and passed five drug tests in the last 10 weeks. He ran three times, timed at 4.68, 4.75 and 4.74 in the 40, with 10-yard splits of 1.53, 1.58 and 1.58 and 20-yard splits of 2.73, 2.75 and 2.75. His arm span measured 33½ inches and his hands measured 9½. He had a 32-inch vertical jump, a 9-foot-8 long jump, a 4.43 short shuttle, an 11.84 long shuttle, a 7.43 three-cone drill and 19 benches</b>
Almost the exact same as Fowler's across the board.
Quote:I can't believe we are ten pages deep on a thread which such a ridiculous premise. Let the guy play a meaningful down before you start throwing shade.
I don't see how legitimate concerns is ridiculous as a premise.
LeSean McCoy only had a 29 inch vertical and 8'11" board jump. That was at his Pro Day.
Quote:LeSean McCoy only had a 29 inch vertical and 8'11" board jump. That was at his Pro Day.
You're talking about two completely different positions
Quote:I don't see how legitimate concerns is ridiculous as a premise.
What do you want us to say? He's an awful player and we should've picked Vic Beasley?
Better?
Quote:Looks like two good players and what's looking like an unfortunate what-if to me.
Who are the 2 good players?
Quote:You're talking about two completely different positions
What does it matter? He's smaller, plays a position where he should be even more explosive than a pass rusher, and the concerns about a lack of explosiveness have obviously been misplaced.
Quote:What do you want us to say? He's an awful player and we should've picked Vic Beasley?
Better?
You don't even read what people have to say. Not only that, i have not said one word about Vic Beasley. Stop superimposing one person's opinion onto another's. Do I think Beasley is a more explosive pass rusher than Fowler? Without question. Is Beasley a better all around player? Not at all. Beasley has proven to be undersized and soft against the run and does not play with anywhere near the same intensity, motor, and violence of Fowler. Does that excuse Fowler's lack of explosive power? No. I am talking about Fowler, anything about Beasley is irrelevant because I'm not saying we should have taken him over Fowler. I am just pointing out a legit concern and trying to see if people can come up with a good reason for it be overlooked to the tune of justifying Fowler as a top 3 pick and I have yet to see anyone give good reason.
I did not and have not called Fowler awful, I even said just a few posts up that he will be a good player. An elite pass rusher though? Highly questionable, which is the point of this thread.
Quote:What does it matter? He's smaller, plays a position where he should be even more explosive than a pass rusher, and the concerns about a lack of explosiveness have obviously been misplaced.
Uh, no. The running back position has far more to do with elusiveness, footwork, vision, and agility/lateral quickness than explosiveness. A running back can be very weak in his base and still be very good if he has good vision, footwork, agility, and is able to make guys miss. For pass rusher, having strong bases is much more important because they have to be able to fight through 300lbs lineman directly.
If we want to do Fowler a favor and allow him to shine and not generate the ire of this fanbase, we need to get a real impact pass rusher to play LEO and allow Fowler to play SAM/OTTO. Then in nickel packages move Fowler to LDE and let him go against right tackles, and scheme up other ways for him to generate pressures and sacks and take advantage of his versatility. If we put him at LEO and have him go up against LTs every down he is going to piss a lot of people off really quick.
Quote:I think Bucky Brooks is right that Fowler is Ahmad Brooks at the NFL level. Not a bad player by any means, but he's a complementary piece on a team that already has a pass rusher. His workout numbers are even almost identical to Brooks' and like Brooks he played at different weights in college and was very versatile. Only difference is that Fowler doesn't have the off field troubles of Brooks and maybe plays with more of a motor and intensity. Brooks' proday numbers:
Almost the exact same as Fowler's across the board.
Bucky said essentially the same thing about Khalil Mack to be fair. He felt Mack would need a "true" dominant pass rusher opposite of him to really be dominant himself. I think Mack proved that is not case this season.
Not to say Fowler is Mack but just providing more context for Bucky's prior opinions.
I like Bucky and for the most part have agreed on his assessments over the years.