Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Better yet will be if he has 2.5 sacks. 

 

All the GMs here will be "See I tol' ya!"

Quote:I hope Fowler has 20 sacks this year just so we can look back at how dumb this thread is.

I dont care what his sack number is as long as he goes out there and makes an impact on defense ill be happy

Quote:My God, this is dumb.


I have no expectations of Fowler. I pretty much view it almost as if we were penalized and lost last year's first round pick. If he comes back and is good- great. But I don't expect it.


That being said, holding it against him that he hurt his knee in basically a non-contact injury is laughable.


Good lord.

yeah, its pretty low!

Quote:If Fowler won 10% of his matchups with his hand in the dirt against any tackle, good or bad, it would be a huge improvement. The fact is that against good tackles he didn't win a single play, and I'm not talking stat sheet production, I'm just talking about defeating a block.

Joey Bosa is severely overrated as well. Average production against right tackles. He is Jared Odrick, not JJ Watt.

But if the message board savants that make fun of anybody who watches tape for themselves and choose to just blindly believe what they are spoon fed from talking heads and the team want to believe that Dante Fowler is some sackmaster from a 3 point stance and is flawless, then I defer to your expertise.

To be clear, I, for one, am not making fun of you for "watching tape."


I simply don't believe that you actually do.


At best, I believe you watch TV video from sites and YouTube clips and attemp to equate that to coach's tape, which, of course, it is not. I know for a fact that you have no idea what traits actual NFL people look for in a player's translation for the next level.


At best you are slightly more informed than someone who watches every game for a guy, or who simply watches YouTube highlights.


At the end of the day, you still don't know near as much as an actual evaluator, or someone actually watching coach's tape.

Quote:In one more year....total Gator defensive bust just like Alex Brown, Kevin Carter, Ellis Johnson, Mike Peterson, Trace Armstrong, and Carlos Dunlap.

 

 

  I'm not a Gator fan or a Gator hater but I would take the NFL version of Carlos Dunlap any day of the week.

Quote: I'm not a Gator fan or a Gator hater but I would take the NFL version of Carlos Dunlap any day of the week.

lol, look at the other names. I think he was being sarcastic

Quote:In one more year....total Gator defensive bust just like Alex Brown, Kevin Carter, Ellis Johnson, Mike Peterson, Trace Armstrong, and Carlos Dunlap.

Javon Kearse, Joe Haden

Quote:lol, look at the other names. I think he was being sarcastic

 

 Mike Peterson stood out as well.  But I wasn't sure if he was being sarcastic based on expectations for these players based on ability.  Kevin Carter had a good career but his draft billing and hype were probably greater than the overall results.   It's not a knock on Carter.  

 

  Giving it more thought though,  I agree with you he was likely being sarcastic.  

Quote:To be clear, I, for one, am not making fun of you for "watching tape."


I simply don't believe that you actually do.


At best, I believe you watch TV video from sites and YouTube clips and attemp to equate that to coach's tape, which, of course, it is not. I know for a fact that you have no idea what traits actual NFL people look for in a player's translation for the next level.


At best you are slightly more informed than someone who watches every game for a guy, or who simply watches YouTube highlights.


At the end of the day, you still don't know near as much as an actual evaluator, or someone actually watching coach's tape.

 

Well, you are correct that my "tapes" are internet videos from television feeds.  I do not work for any NFL team nor BLESTO, etc so I wouldn't have access to coach's tape.  I don't think I've ever read anyone equate youtube to coach's tape.  Maybe you are just taking offense to the term, "watching tape?"  I am open for whatever else you want to call it.

 

And again, I agree with you that I don't have near the knowledge of an experienced professional scout.  

 

It doesn't mean I have no idea what I am talking about.  If it takes a professional to have an opinion, I think we should all agree to not vote since we aren't profesional politicians after all.  We should never disagree with a politician.

Quote: Mike Peterson stood out as well. But I wasn't sure if he was being sarcastic based on expectations for these players based on ability. Kevin Carter had a good career but his draft billing and hype were probably greater than the overall results. It's not a knock on Carter.


Giving it more thought though, I agree with you he was likely being sarcastic.

Carter had over 100 career sacks, nfl rookie of the year, 18 FF, SB champ, all pro, a few pro bowls. Look at the players he named, he was being sarcastic lol. Would love to have some more bust like those lol

Quote:Carter had over 100 career sacks, nfl rookie of the year, 18 FF, SB champ, all pro, a few pro bowls. Look at the players he named, he was being sarcastic lol. Would love to have some more bust like those lol

 

  I now agree with you he was being sarcastic.   And there's no question Kevin Carter had a productive career. and I would gladly sign for Carter's career numbers with almost any DE that comes down the pike.   But when you factor in the hype on Carter coming into the NFL,   I still don't think he met the expectations that many had for him over the course of his career.   Carter was mentioned in the same sentence with the likes of Bruce Smith as a DE athlete.  

 

  Your right though,  you can put a very good Defensive foundation with these busts.   :teehee:

Quote:yeah, its pretty low!

But he's a tweener....

Armchair GM's unite!

double post 

Quote:Armchair GM's unite!

it's funny how everyone thinks their own opinion is totally valid but when someone disagrees, they're "armchair gms."


For the record, I don't have an opinion either way because I've never really watched him play. But that vertical jump thing I mentioned is legit and there aee plenty of college strength coach interviews that back it up. Between that and the injury, I don't know how the haters can be demised so easily. You have to remember he doesn't have a benefit of hgh like a lot of players had who recovered from tears like that.

Quote:I hope Fowler has 20 sacks this year just so we can look back at how dumb this thread is.

 

Doubtful. He wasn't that dominant in college as a pass rusher with weaker players.

Quote:it's funny how everyone thinks their own opinion is totally valid but when someone disagrees, they're "armchair gms."


For the record, I don't have an opinion either way because I've never really watched him play. But that vertical jump thing I mentioned is legit and there aee plenty of college strength coach interviews that back it up. Between that and the injury, I don't know how the haters can be demised so easily. You have to remember he doesn't have a benefit of hgh like a lot of players had who recovered from tears like that.

 

I like Fowler. I also have not read this entire thread. But to say "why aren't they concerned" makes it seem as though you see something that they don't/didn't. These guys do A LOT of research and watch A LOT of film before they decide to draft someone. They obviously saw something with Fowler that they wanted since he was the 1st round pick.

Quote:Well, you are correct that my "tapes" are internet videos from television feeds. I do not work for any NFL team nor BLESTO, etc so I wouldn't have access to coach's tape. I don't think I've ever read anyone equate youtube to coach's tape. Maybe you are just taking offense to the term, "watching tape?" I am open for whatever else you want to call it.


And again, I agree with you that I don't have near the knowledge of an experienced professional scout.


It doesn't mean I have no idea what I am talking about. If it takes a professional to have an opinion, I think we should all agree to not vote since we aren't profesional politicians after all. We should never disagree with a politician.

Your example isn't really relevant. Professional politicians is an odd term onto itself, sadly. I wish it would be examined greater..... They don't have qualifications at all, other than what they pull out of the air.


The fact is that all of us "draftnics" who watch all of this "tape" have very limited knowledge in comparison to scouts, coaches, and the FO. Tape, interviews, practice sessions, talking with opponents, coaches, etc., all important stuff that the draftnics have a very small perspective on.


It may not take a professional to have an opinion, but as in most things, it often takes one to have an educated opinion.

Quote:Your example isn't really relevant. Professional politicians is an odd term onto itself, sadly. I wish it would be examined greater..... They don't have qualifications at all, other than what they pull out of the air.


The fact is that all of us "draftnics" who watch all of this "tape" have very limited knowledge in comparison to scouts, coaches, and the FO. Tape, interviews, practice sessions, talking with opponents, coaches, etc., all important stuff that the draftnics have a very small perspective on.


It may not take a professional to have an opinion, but as in most things, it often takes one to have an educated opinion.

 

The thing though, and while it's true that a "draftnik" may not have as much knowledge as coaches/scouts/FO....player evaluation isn't rocket science. In fact, it isn't even science at all! The only real difference is that scouts see these guys in person and have more access than your average "draftnik". And of course, spends more time at it since they get paid to do it.

I think it is a very valid comparison.  Who are we to criticize what politicians legislate if we aren't even in the chambers or privy to the information that they have?  They have vastly superior knowledge than that of just us mere common folk.  Yeah, it is pretty sad that "professional politician" has become an acceptable reference.

 

I disagree that it takes a professional to have an educated opinion.  All it takes is an educated person to have an educated opinion.  The opinion may be less informed, but may still be the right opinion regardless.  Gene Smith has more experience and knowledge than 90% of the professional scouting community, but we saw what blindly following that man led us to.  There are a great deal many things that can be gleamed from watching television tape, you don't need every angle on every play, especially if the player is near the line of scrimmage.  Secondary is a lot harder to look at without coach's tape.