Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:In one more year....total Gator defensive bust just like Alex Brown, Kevin Carter, Ellis Johnson, Mike Peterson, Trace Armstrong, and Carlos Dunlap.

 

 

And Derrick Harvey. 

Quote:why is this dude talking like we now know Fowler is a bust?

 

Personal feeling. Then again among my friends, they loved Matt Jones and Justin Blackmon as well when I knew they were busts. In the NFL, you're either productive or a bust. Drugs, partying, injuries.....doesn't matter about the excuse. I personally feel Fowler is nothing special. 

Quote:And Derrick Harvey.

In other words, college stats aren't always an indicator.


Got it.

But he KNOWS

I'll be the first to admit, I've been wrong about players before. But vertical jump doesn't lie and its the biggest "test" of natural athleticism there is since you can't learn it like you can the 40 and, after high school, it's a freak thing if you can add 3 inches (excluding adding to it by losing weight or people who have never trained before). Fowler's was nothing impressive. I saw people comparing Fowler's explosiveness to to JJ Watt's... Watt's vert was 5 inches higher at 30 pounds heavier.

To Pirkster and FreeAgent01:

 

When you guys are 'scouting' Dante and his youtube cut-ups, keep in mind that if he's affecting even 12.5% of the plays, he's having a JJ Watt-level impact on the game.. No DE is going to whip a decent OT on a consistent basis. Please compare Fowler's games to the games you see from this year's crop, save Joey Bosa, and you'll see that Dante's affect on the game is greater than any edge rusher coming out.

 

I don't care about 3-cone drills, broad jumps, or 40-in verts. Those kinds of things are always trumped by actual game tape. 

Quote:I'll be the first to admit, I've been wrong about players before. But vertical jump doesn't lie and its the biggest "test" of natural athleticism there is since you can't learn it like you can the 40 and, after high school, it's a freak thing if you can add 3 inches (excluding adding to it by losing weight or people who have never trained before). Fowler's was nothing impressive. I saw people comparing Fowler's explosiveness to to JJ Watt's... Watt's vert was 5 inches higher at 30 pounds heavier.

 

Alualu was 1.5 inches lower than watt, while being 5 lbs heavier.

 

I think a lot of people see Fowlers explosiveness come from his violence at the point of impact. Theres an explosiveness there thats not defined by the measurables.

Fowler is going to make his living in the NFL with his heavy, violent hands at the point of attack. The guy I look to with similar measurable and less than impressive combine explosiveness measurements is Tamba Hali. Hali isn't an athletic freak in comparison to some other DEs, but his hand usage is arguably one of  the best in the game. We'll see how Fowler performs but I envision him being a similar style of player if he is to succeed.

Quote:Alualu was 1.5 inches lower than watt, while being 5 lbs heavier.

 

I think a lot of people see Fowlers explosiveness come from his violence at the point of impact. Theres an explosiveness there thats not defined by the measurables.

Alualu was an absolute freak athlete, too. He is the only #forceplayer on the team.

 

Will always be a what if over him and that blasted Oklahoma drill.

Quote:Well, if he literally explodes, my guess is that many here would label him a bust, so clearly that's coaching. If only Gus had done a better job of coaching Fowler, he would have avoided exploding.

Disagree. All on the FO/Scouting. You can clearly see "watching tape," like some here do religiously, obviously, the tendency of a player for spontaneously combusting.


I'll get back to "watching tape" now so I can catch up with gurus.

Quote:Alualu was an absolute freak athlete, too. He is the only #forceplayer on the team.

 

Will always be a what if over him and that blasted Oklahoma drill.

 sigh every now and then i watch some of his highlights from Cal.

Its going to be a long offseason..

this is still going on...

Quote:Alualu was 1.5 inches lower than watt, while being 5 lbs heavier.

 

I think a lot of people see Fowlers explosiveness come from his violence at the point of impact. Theres an explosiveness there thats not defined by the measurables.

I didn't mean to imply it automatically makes them a good player or that an average vertical means they'll be bad. I'm just saying that it shows explosiveness and the ability to jump is a God given gift.. you really can't work on it. So in my opinion, it's a  good indicator of explosiveness. People are saying Fowler has heavy hands.. maybe that makes up for it and it won't be a problem.

Quote:To Pirkster and FreeAgent01:


When you guys are 'scouting' Dante and his youtube cut-ups, keep in mind that if he's affecting even 12.5% of the plays, he's having a JJ Watt-level impact on the game.. No DE is going to whip a decent OT on a consistent basis. Please compare Fowler's games to the games you see from this year's crop, save Joey Bosa, and you'll see that Dante's affect on the game is greater than any edge rusher coming out.


I don't care about 3-cone drills, broad jumps, or 40-in verts. Those kinds of things are always trumped by actual game tape.

If Fowler won 10% of his matchups with his hand in the dirt against any tackle, good or bad, it would be a huge improvement. The fact is that against good tackles he didn't win a single play, and I'm not talking stat sheet production, I'm just talking about defeating a block.


Joey Bosa is severely overrated as well. Average production against right tackles. He is Jared Odrick, not JJ Watt.


But if the message board savants that make fun of anybody who watches tape for themselves and choose to just blindly believe what they are spoon fed from talking heads and the team want to believe that Dante Fowler is some sackmaster from a 3 point stance and is flawless, then I defer to your expertise.

Quote:Yet his knee buckled when he faced his first "NFL" competition.

My God, this is dumb.


I have no expectations of Fowler. I pretty much view it almost as if we were penalized and lost last year's first round pick. If he comes back and is good- great. But I don't expect it.


That being said, holding it against him that he hurt his knee in basically a non-contact injury is laughable.


Good lord.

Quote:sigh every now and then i watch some of his highlights from Cal.

The Tebow sack in that all-star game is still my favorite.

Quote: sigh every now and then i watch some of his highlights from Cal.

I'm sure I watched him some back then, but I just rewatched Alualu's 2009 highlights again now. He looks like he was every bit as good of a college player as Leonard Williams was last year.

I hope Fowler has 20 sacks this year just so we can look back at how dumb this thread is.