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I think people are just setting themselves up for a "told you so" moment if Fowler fails to impress this season.


Let him play a game or two at least.

Quote:You don't even read what people have to say. Not only that, i have not said one word about Vic Beasley. Stop superimposing one person's opinion onto another's. Do I think Beasley is a more explosive pass rusher than Fowler? Without question. Is Beasley a better all around player? Not at all. Beasley has proven to be undersized and soft against the run and does not play with anywhere near the same intensity, motor, and violence of Fowler. Does that excuse Fowler's lack of explosive power? No. I am talking about Fowler, anything about Beasley is irrelevant because I'm not saying we should have taken him over Fowler. I am just pointing out a legit concern and trying to see if people can come up with a good reason for it be overlooked to the tune of justifying Fowler as a top 3 pick and I have yet to see anyone give good reason. 

 

I did not and have not called Fowler awful, I even said just a few posts up that he will be a good player. An elite pass rusher though? Highly questionable, which is the point of this thread. 

 

The same reason why we drafted Bortles in the 1st round. The kid has the size, speed, strength, and motor to be one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, but he still needs time to develop and work out his flaws. Obviously all the professional scouts and Caldwell believed he would be a great player, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Quote:Exactly, whats funny is KYjaggy banged the hardest for Teddy and said he was the next Manning.  KYjaggy is also the guy that always brought up the term QB purgatory as the QB he never wanted and almost everyone else knew is exactly what we have seen on the field.  Teddy is the definition of QB purgatory lol.  The game manager that everyone knew he was and could clearly see it in his college games.  If i throws more than 10 yards he misses wide open WR or just scared to take the shot down field because he knows he dont have the arm or accuracy.  Matt Miller said Teddy was the next great so KYjaggy agrees with him.  If he watched the games he could of seen Teddy was the def. of his QB purgatory / the QB he never wanted lol.  Pretty funny.

 

 

Quote:Looks like two good players and what's looking like an unfortunate what-if to me. 

Vino, i think you are wrong about Mccoy. He is an explosive runner. He just didnt jump well. Theres no test that would have told you that MATT JONES would have been clocked among the fastest rbs with pads on.


Fowlers big question was bend not explosiveness. You dont run what he ran or hit the way he hits without being explosive. His 3 cone was a concern.


All pass rushers start slow. Its inevitable. Fans are pissed. Its our state of being really. You cant manage a team that way. He was the 3 pick in the draft and will be given every oppurtunity to play leo. If he proves he can't, then you move him but not before.

The best thing Caldwell can do for Fowler is draft Carl Nassib, Jonathan Allen, Shaq Lawson, or Jonathan Bullard (preferably two of those guys, plus FA's) and let Fowler develop into his role. I don't think he's going to come out swinging after his ACL injury, and it'll probably take him a full season to get back in rythm and get use to the knee.

 

I expect Fowler to get 5 sacks at the most, but I'm sure he'll put pressure on QB's consistently.

Quote:I don't see how legitimate concerns is ridiculous as a premise.

You should always be concerned that a top pick might not live up to his potential. But to bag on the GM for making a pick that was roundly praised because he sustained the first real injury of his career and was unable to play is ridiculous. Let the kid play a few meaningful snaps before you bash him.

Quote:You should always be concerned that a top pick might not live up to his potential. But to bag on the GM for making a pick that was roundly praised because he sustained the first real injury of his career and was unable to play is ridiculous. Let the kid play a few meaningful snaps before you bash him.

Bingo.

Quote:You should always be concerned that a top pick might not live up to his potential. But to bag on the GM for making a pick that was roundly praised because he sustained the first real injury of his career and was unable to play is ridiculous. Let the kid play a few meaningful snaps before you bash him.

When did I do that?? I am not pirkster.

Quote: 

Uh, no. The running back position has far more to do with elusiveness, footwork, vision, and agility/lateral quickness than explosiveness. A running back can be very weak in his base and still be very good if he has good vision, footwork, agility, and is able to make guys miss. For pass rusher, having strong bases is much more important because they have to be able to fight through 300lbs lineman directly.

 

So now "explosion" means "good base" (whatever that even means - lower body strength? Balance?). Do you not think there are other important aspects to rushing the passer than simply being able to jump high and far?

 

The inescapable fact, no matter how many amorphous terms you throw around, is that McCoy was lauded as an explosive player prior to his horrible Pro Day. After that performance, people questioned whether he actually was explosive. Then he actually played NFL games and people realized they were foolish for questioning his explosiveness. And yes, I would think that a 200 pound player who plays RB is supposed to put up better verticals and board jumps than a 260 pound DE/OLB. 

Lol Kid hasn't even taken a snap in an NFL game yet.


11 pages for it doe.....

These same people having unwarranted doubts are the same ones that swore up and down Luke Joker would be a beast and looked ridiculous for it. It's ok, just expect the worst and be perpetually disappointed. You all must be a joy to talk to irl. Bunch of emo fans.

Quote:When did I do that?? I am not pirkster.

You are one of the biggest flip floppers there are.

 

You did the same thing with Bortles

 

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthr...ht=Bortles

 

Quote:What we need is a new QB. Bortles is garbage.


lol Cam Newton is not a top 5 QB not even close.


And yes we will be picking high enough to draft Bosa. We will be picking top 3 because this team will not win more than 3 games. No, we will not draft Bosa because the new GM will be drafting a QB.
 

 

Quote:Cam Newton is not a top 5 QB.


If we are going into the bye week 0-8 once again and Bortles continues playing like Blaine Bortles both Caldwell and Bradley will be packing their bags BOOK IT. Shad is not stupid and he is not going to put up with this crap. Only reason why we might not draft a QB that high is because the crop of QBs this year stinks. We should have taken Teddy like everyone in the [BAD WORD REMOVED]ing world except Caldwell and his NFL buddies thought.


And how about you learn how to spell check so I can actually use my reading comprehension
 

 

Quote:His numbers are about as good as he played. His accuracy on deep balls and in the redzone sucks. He falls asleep way too much and it was obvious he was shook after the pick 6. Soon as Joeckel went out and he started getting hit a lot more he got antsy in the pocket and did a Gabbrt-esque walk right into a sack. It was terrible and disheartening to see. Whatever potential Bortles had has been ruined. On to the next one. He never showed me anything when he was in college that made me think he was special, I thought he'd alright, but this team has compounded on his problems and he's approaching Gabbert territories of bad now. Quite ironic. I was livid when we picked him 3rd overall. I thought it was crazy when the pick happened but bought into the koolaid. Turns out it was what I thought it was in the first place.
 

 

Then you make threads afterwards like this

 

 

http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/top...nderrated/

 

Quote: 

Reading articles like this really makes me think about how impressive it is what Blake has been able to do just to survive these first two years, and just how underrated he is. How many QBs do you think would have survived what Bortles has been put through? 95% of them would have been crushed. He was a project coming out of college and wasn't supposed to start and was not prepared to start. He is thrust in 3 games into the season behind the worst O-Line in the league, surrounded by a bunch of rookie receivers and the only "vet" was constantly hurt, no legit pass catching tight end, and Toby Gerhart and Denard Robinson as his running backs. I would call that, as that article puts it, an outstanding circumstance.

 

Then to come back this year and improve as much as he has is nothing short of incredible. The fact he's made it through 29 games behind this O-Line without ever missing a snap is incredible. I can almost guarantee any other QB would have been hurt by now. Mariota would have been on a stretcher here. I can name probably 3 QBs in the league right now who would have been able to survive the situation here and come out unscathed from it, and those are Cam, Luck, and Jameis. And I'm not sure if even any of them would have gotten BETTER after it, let alone significantly so. The more I think about it the more I think the national media's stance on Bortles is crazy. This guy has potential to be really good considering what he's had given to him these two years and what he's been able to achieve as a player despite it. Put a line in front of this guy and a defense behind him and I bet he will be unquestionably a top 5, not just top 10, QB. He's shown that kind of moxy and mental fortitude that I believe he will get there someday and someday soon.

 

 

 

Cmon man, next year you will flip it like you did with Bortles and go on to say he was a great pick

I'm sorry, again, where did I rail against Fowler because he had an injury?? I've been fairly consistent with my position that Fowler is not an impact pass rusher but can be a good/impact player at OTTO.

Quote:I'm sorry, again, where did I rail against Fowler because he had an injury?? I've been fairly consistent with my position that Fowler is not an impact pass rusher but can be a good/impact player at OTTO.

And what the others are saying is that let him play in the nfl first and see before making conclusions

Quote:The same reason why we drafted Bortles in the 1st round. The kid has the size, speed, strength, and motor to be one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, but he still needs time to develop and work out his flaws. Obviously all the professional scouts and Caldwell believed he would be a great player, so we'll just have to wait and see.

I'll give you size, speed, and motor. He definitely has a long way to go in the strength department. Vernon Hargreaves will likely put more reps up on bench just as a partial indicator. Fowler has a softer upper body.

Quote:I'll give you size, speed, and motor. He definitely has a long way to go in the strength department. Vernon Hargreaves will likely put more reps up on bench just as a partial indicator. Fowler has a softer upper body.

I imagine he put in some upper body work in his recovery and has been working with NFL trainers for almost a year now.  The kid has even been highly involved in defensive meetings from the few reports we have gotten.

Quote:I'll give you size, speed, and motor. He definitely has a long way to go in the strength department. Vernon Hargreaves will likely put more reps up on bench just as a partial indicator. Fowler has a softer upper body.

Calais Campbell had 16 reps,Gerald Mccoy had 23..don't look too much into it.

The real issue is whether or not he can be a traditional End when the new coach gets here and this Leo crap goes away.

Quote:I'll give you size, speed, and motor. He definitely has a long way to go in the strength department. Vernon Hargreaves will likely put more reps up on bench just as a partial indicator. Fowler has a softer upper body.

i highly doubt Hargreaves puts 19+ on 225.

Quote:Calais Campbell had 16 reps,Gerald Mccoy had 23..don't look too much into it.

I wish they did squats at the combine because the legs is where your power and explosion comes from