Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(03-20-2018, 10:32 AM)BklynJag Wrote: [ -> ]So would everyone agree we got worse at the WR position so far this offseason?

Hurns has stunk since he got paid.  What has he done the past 2 years?

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Allen Hurns 2017 stats:

39 receptions for 484 yards and 2 td's. People are crying over missing that kind of production?

(03-20-2018, 05:16 PM)Achilles Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-20-2018, 04:19 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]From what Caldwell was saying, his priority was Lee and a WR to pair with him.  They wanted to get a deal with ARob, but weren't close on numbers.  Moncrief was the next guy on their list, and they got him.

Lee was not a "settle for" or leftover.  He was part of plan A.

Hurns was a goner from the start, unless he was going to take a pay cut.

Not my opinion, it's what the club and others have reported.

It's crazy how much people undervalue Lee. I guess that's the internet age though. Weak minds see an opinion from some figure head and then they all parrot it enough until somehow that becomes the label, even though it's inaccurate. 

Lee has had a few bad drops but the whole drop rate is overblown. 

Anyone who truly thinks hurns brings more to the table than Lee needs to just stop talking about football.

Yeah 8 or 9 dropped passes in one season (after not dropping many at all in years prior) and most are willing to write the guy off. 

It's a bit strange. He made some nice catches on questionable throws and made good plays in 2017 as well. 



Dropped a shoulder on Earl Thomas, LOL





and plenty of these type of grabs....

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(03-20-2018, 05:51 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-20-2018, 05:16 PM)Achilles Wrote: [ -> ]It's crazy how much people undervalue Lee. I guess that's the internet age though. Weak minds see an opinion from some figure head and then they all parrot it enough until somehow that becomes the label, even though it's inaccurate. 

Lee has had a few bad drops but the whole drop rate is overblown. 

Anyone who truly thinks hurns brings more to the table than Lee needs to just stop talking about football.

Yeah 8 or 9 dropped passes in one season (after not dropping many at all in years prior) and most are willing to write the guy off. 

It's a bit strange. He made some nice catches on questionable throws and made good plays in 2017 as well. 



Dropped a shoulder on Earl Thomas, LOL





and plenty of these type of grabs....

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Lee played much better down the stretch part of which is highlighted in the plays you are showing. Also highlighting that is Lee's league leading 8th and final drop happened in week 11 against the cards. So that was 6 regular season games in a row without a drop and if what I am seeing is correct, no playoff drops. That makes 9 games in a row.

(03-20-2018, 03:42 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-20-2018, 01:48 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ]When he's healthy is probably a big factor in this release, especially with the concussion concerns. Lee is ascending.  Hurns is an expensive #3 or 4 receiver at this point.

While I agree about the health part factoring into Hurns' release, I totally disagree about Lee ascending. He has peaked. He is what he is. An average #2 or #3 receiver that this team covets as a #1 for some unknown reason.

Burns was overpaid when they extended his deal. When the team approached him to rework his deal he asked to be released.  Lee's situation has nothing to do with this, and I doubt seriously the team is looking at him as their #1 receiver. 

As far as Lee ascending, I believe that to be the case. His ceiling is definitely higher than Hurns at this point. The team certainly thought so when they brought him back under a new deal.  I have to trust that Caldwell knows what he's doing when it comes to receiver talent.

Hurns 74 catches 951 yards and 5tds IN THE LAST 2 YEARS

Just as mediocre as they come and well over paid. Overdue release in my opinion.

(03-20-2018, 11:17 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-20-2018, 10:32 AM)BklynJag Wrote: [ -> ]So would everyone agree we got worse at the WR position so far this offseason?

Nope. Robinson didn't play at all last year. Hurns hasn't played a full season since 2015, where he and Robinson essentially racked up garbage time statistics. And the last time I recalled Robinson on the field before the ACL he was dropping passes or tipping them up into the air for INT's. So I don't get where people think we've downgraded at the position this off season. 

We won games WITHOUT them. We were in a Championship game with TWO ROOKIES at WR playing on the field. I think I'll trust this front office's judgement and personnel decisions more than what anybody around here thinks. Lee outperformed Hurns in 2016 and Robinson was "slightly" better than him statistically. 

This was during Bradley's final year before the offense was to be completely revamped and changed to an old school offense. It's pretty clear what the goal is now on offense. Power run game with heavy TE involvement and the dictation of opposing defenses in hopes of opening up the play action game with our smaller, more quick and faster receivers that can get downfield in a hurry. 

And, again. We still have the draft next month. People seem to keep forgetting this. Plenty of tall, physical, "go up and get it" type of receivers in this year's class. We very well may see Caldwell & Coughlin go after one of them on opening night if they don't have a trade in mind to move up to land a premium player at a different position. It's probably why they've moved on from Robinson and released Hurns. They must feel confident or see something from this class at the WR position.

Exactly.  Robinson has the potential to be a "true #1" talent and Hurns is a good (not great) possession guy.  Retaining them is basically over-paying them.  If anything, I would say that we've either made some upgrades if not at least keeping the same level of talent.

So we have 16 million in the bank right now?

Minus the draft picks which is about 7 million. And minus a handful for contract bonuses and others. Probably go into 2018 with 4/5 million in cap.

I don't like it no hurns no Robinson definitely feels like we are weaker at wr now

(03-20-2018, 07:19 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't like it no hurns no Robinson definitely feels like we are weaker at wr now

We made it to the AFC title game without Robinson and Hurns doing not much

Lee, DeDe, Cole, and Moncrief are fine for are offense DeDe might breakout this year, we may still draft a WR

Caldwell is probably drafting a receiver early in the draft. I hope we pick a tight end in the first round, lb in the second, and wr in the third.

I'm gonna miss Hurns, can't teach toughness

(03-20-2018, 07:34 PM)J-Mizzal Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-20-2018, 07:19 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't like it no hurns no Robinson definitely feels like we are weaker at wr now

We made it to the AFC title game without Robinson and Hurns doing not much

Lee, DeDe, Cole, and Moncrief are fine for are offense DeDe might breakout this year, we may still draft a WR

I know I just don't like loosing two key players in one offseason. 

Look we finally have competent people in the front office so I'm good with waiting to see how it shakes out but I just don't feel as confident about the wr as I did last year. There a lot of question marks in what was a pretty deep roster spot last year.

(03-20-2018, 11:14 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-20-2018, 11:06 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Debatable but I think the potential for Moncrief to be better than Hurns is there.  Even if one were to concede that Hurns is better than Moncrief, that still puts him at 4th on the depth chart behind guys that were much more productive than him last season.  And the point remains that if your 4th receiver has a strong market, your top 3 must be pretty good.  At this point, you’re arguing from a very weak point.  You can believe Hurns would have been 1 or 2 this year but you’d have a very difficult time backing that up with anything substantive.

Let me preface by stating that I was high on Moncrief in 2014.

Furthermore, I understand there are different circumstances in each organization that can impact player productivity, in a good or bad way.

But if Moncrief could not succeed in Indy with Luck throwing him the ball, why would he succeed more than Hurns here?

As far as being "much less productive"...https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/jax/2017.htm

Not sure if he was "much less productive." 

Now could you argue his productivity was not worth $7 million/year?  Sure.

Hey, small world. I've been high on Moncrief a time or two as well!

Well they weren’t lying when they said he’d have a hot market:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...nterested/

Heartbroken. Loved the guy. He was pure heart, just look at him crawling off the field with a busted ankle to save us a TO. 

I get having cap space means we could sign player x but there's also getting rid of players who can contribute. For all those slagging off Hurns stats, you may also be the same guys slagging off the guy throwing him the ball!! Hard to catch balls 10 yards over your head.

There's a hell of a lot of expectation on Cole and Westbrook to step it up this season. 

Thanks Hurnsy.

I still don't understand bringing Lee back and letting Hurns and A-Rob go. A-Rob wanted a big contract off of a massive knee injury, I get that. Letting him go makes sense. But Hurns? When he's healthy, he's as good as anyone else at the position on this roster. I'd have preferred to see him kept over Lee.

(03-20-2018, 10:00 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]I still don't understand bringing Lee back and letting Hurns and A-Rob go. A-Rob wanted a big contract off of a massive knee injury, I get that. Letting him go makes sense. But Hurns? When he's healthy, he's as good as anyone else at the position on this roster. I'd have preferred to see him kept over Lee.

Agree, gonna go out on a limb and say wherever Hurns goes he has a better season than Lee. I hope im wrong but the last game we played Hurns was finally healthy.

(03-20-2018, 10:15 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-20-2018, 10:00 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]I still don't understand bringing Lee back and letting Hurns and A-Rob go. A-Rob wanted a big contract off of a massive knee injury, I get that. Letting him go makes sense. But Hurns? When he's healthy, he's as good as anyone else at the position on this roster. I'd have preferred to see him kept over Lee.

Agree, gonna go out on a limb and say wherever Hurns goes he has a better season than Lee. I hope im wrong but the last game we played Hurns was finally healthy.

That's what I mean. He made some nice catches against the Pats and he was a safe pair of hands on 3rd down, he'd go where it hurt. You can't have enough of those guys.

Let's hope Lee can stay healthy, he's our #1 WR at the moment. I think he's best in the slot personally. 

Looks like we will be power run first with fast guys on the outside to hit them deep. The old Seattle O basically. Bortles needs to find the accurate deep ball in that case.

(03-20-2018, 10:00 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]I still don't understand bringing Lee back and letting Hurns and A-Rob go. A-Rob wanted a big contract off of a massive knee injury, I get that. Letting him go makes sense. But Hurns? When he's healthy, he's as good as anyone else at the position on this roster. I'd have preferred to see him kept over Lee.

Best ability is availability. He basically took over the mantra of the albino tiger.

Even when healthy Hurns hasn't been very productive since he signed his contract. Over the last two years he has 19 starts and two games where he came off the bench. In that active time he has 5 TDs and less than 1000 yrds to show for it. Over that time frame he received 16 mil. I can understand why they didn't want to risk another 7 mil.