After revisiting Spotrac's page on Hurns, I think ATLjag is correct in that the Jags could not have avoided the $4 million guarantee by cutting him before friday because his contract had a total guarantee of $20 million and he had only received $16 million of that prior to friday. They could still trade him and not be on the hook for the money. Perhaps he's being packaged with draft picks to move up in the draft.
(03-17-2018, 01:52 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]After revisiting Spotrac's page on Hurns, I think ATLjag is correct in that the Jags could not have avoided the $4 million guarantee by cutting him before friday because his contract had a total guarantee of $20 million and he had only received $16 million of that prior to friday. They could still trade him and not be on the hook for the money. Perhaps he's being packaged with draft picks to move up in the draft.
This seems logical. Wouldn't surprise me if he is traded during the draft.
Actually, I just don't know what trade value he'd have with that salary, lack of production the last 2 years and injury history. The removal of Jaguars from his Twitter account is interesting, but based on everything else I think he'll be on the team this year unless the team decides freeing up the $3 million non-guaranteed portion of his salary this year is more important.
(03-17-2018, 01:48 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2018, 01:30 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I see no news on Hurns. I think that means he's back. I really don't get it. Lee is clearly a starter. The ink is still wet on Moncrief. You can say he's unproven, etc., but I can't believe they would pay Moncrief that money if they didn't see him as a starter or at least a significant role player. Personally, I like Cole better than Hurns. Cole had 748 yards as a rookie. With one exception, that's more yards than any season Hurns has ever had. Hurns has had less than 500 yards in each of his last two seasons. Although active in all 16 games, Cole only had 6 starts last year too. With more playing experience and more playing time, I see good things from him. I like Westbrook better than Hurns too. He shows a lot of potential. Mickens will also be active on game days to return punts. Where does that leave Hurns? I think he makes the team, assuming we keep six wide receivers, but he would be my game day inactive. I don't see him playing much, barring injuries to other players. Paying $7 million for that seems like a bad use of our money.
Why pay Moncrief $7 million and Hurns $7 million, when $14 million comes close to what A-Rob got in free agency? We don't need a lot of players. We need good players. You can say A-Rob is a risk, but Moncrief isn't?
If we are going to spend $7 million on a backup, why not quarterback? At least it's the most important position on the field and we currently have no one.
This is a very strange move. I hope there's some news of a secret trade, but I doubt it. I think we would have heard by now.
There's still plenty of time to make a trade or two. And Hurns can be good for that. If not, we still have him and he either earns a roster spot or he doesn't.
I don't see a trade happening. Who's going to trade picks for him with his $7 million salary? As someone suggested, at best, maybe you trade him for a conditional 7th rounder if you are really lucky. That's a very minor reward and it's not worth the risk. If we don't find a trade partner, we're eating his $4 million of guaranteed salary. I think if a trade were to happen, it would have been before the deadline.
As for cutting him, yes, we still can. However, again, we would be throwing $4 million down the toilet. That doesn't seem very bright when we could have done it for free yesterday.
This is a strange move (or non-move) that doesn't make much sense.
(03-17-2018, 02:03 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, I just don't know what trade value he'd have with that salary, lack of production the last 2 years and injury history. The removal of Jaguars from his Twitter account is interesting, but based on everything else I think he'll be on the team this year unless the team decides freeing up the $3 million non-guaranteed portion of his salary this year is more important.
If all they save by getting rid of him is $3 million, why not keep him? The "lack of production the last 2 years and injury history" really have very little to do with it. What matters is what they expect from him this year, and who they could get to replace him. Could he catch 50 or 60 balls this year, and if so, how much would it cost to replace that level of production? Probably more than $3 million.
In regards to the $4 million guarantee and the Friday deadline, Mr. O-Zone Man has mentioned it multiple times. He's rarely wrong about the factual aspect of Jaguars contracts. I would trust him far more on this than some of these other salary cap sites.
(03-17-2018, 02:10 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2018, 01:48 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]There's still plenty of time to make a trade or two. And Hurns can be good for that. If not, we still have him and he either earns a roster spot or he doesn't.
I don't see a trade happening. Who's going to trade picks for him with his $7 million salary? As someone suggested, at best, maybe you trade him for a conditional 7th rounder if you are really lucky. That's a very minor reward and it's not worth the risk. If we don't find a trade partner, we're eating his $4 million of guaranteed salary. I think if a trade were to happen, it would have been before the deadline.
As for cutting him, yes, we still can. However, again, we would be throwing $4 million down the toilet. That doesn't seem very bright when we could have done it for free yesterday.
This is a strange move (or non-move) that doesn't make much sense.
They were wrong. The Jags were on the hook for his $4m salary guarantee whether he was cut before Friday or not. The only way the Jags are not on the hook for the $4m is if they trade him, transferring the contract and his salary (whether it be guaranteed or not) to another team. The $4m was not structured as a roster or signing bonus.
I don't get why people want to move on from hurns? I don't care what his cap number is he's productive I'd prefer to keep him.
(03-17-2018, 04:20 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't get why people want to move on from hurns? I don't care what his cap number is he's productive I'd prefer to keep him.
I think it's more a matter of people expecting Hurns to be released or traded rather than wanting it.
After the pricey Lee and Moncrief signings, and with both Cole and Westbrook looking like starters last year, it's likely that Jags management views the cap space as more valuable than a fifth receiver.
(03-17-2018, 02:12 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2018, 02:03 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, I just don't know what trade value he'd have with that salary, lack of production the last 2 years and injury history. The removal of Jaguars from his Twitter account is interesting, but based on everything else I think he'll be on the team this year unless the team decides freeing up the $3 million non-guaranteed portion of his salary this year is more important.
If all they save by getting rid of him is $3 million, why not keep him? The "lack of production the last 2 years and injury history" really have very little to do with it. What matters is what they expect from him this year, and who they could get to replace him. Could he catch 50 or 60 balls this year, and if so, how much would it cost to replace that level of production? Probably more than $3 million.
(03-17-2018, 03:03 PM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2018, 02:10 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see a trade happening. Who's going to trade picks for him with his $7 million salary? As someone suggested, at best, maybe you trade him for a conditional 7th rounder if you are really lucky. That's a very minor reward and it's not worth the risk. If we don't find a trade partner, we're eating his $4 million of guaranteed salary. I think if a trade were to happen, it would have been before the deadline.
As for cutting him, yes, we still can. However, again, we would be throwing $4 million down the toilet. That doesn't seem very bright when we could have done it for free yesterday.
This is a strange move (or non-move) that doesn't make much sense.
They were wrong. The Jags were on the hook for his $4m salary guarantee whether he was cut before Friday or not. The only way the Jags are not on the hook for the $4m is if they trade him, transferring the contract and his salary (whether it be guaranteed or not) to another team. The $4m was not structured as a roster or signing bonus.
What's your proof that they were wrong? John Oehser is an employee of the Jaguars. If anyone had correct information about a Jaguars player's contract, I would think it would be the Jaguars organization. I'm not saying anyone can't make a mistake, but who's your source that is more reliable than John Oehser? I don't see any correction posted on Jaguars.com.
If you are correct and the $4 million was guaranteed anyway, then I'm ok with not cutting him. You would only be saving $3 million. That's much better than $7 million. In addition, they could still cut him later and still save the $3 million.
Hurns is relatively cheap and productive when healthy. Problem is he hasnt been healthy and is a concussion or two from retiring. Unlikely someone trades for that, but then again we got a 6th for Gabbert.
I've been saying it for months now. Hurns is washed up. I don't know if injuries took their toll or what but he is not the same player.
(03-17-2018, 04:20 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't get why people want to move on from hurns? I don't care what his cap number is he's productive I'd prefer to keep him.
This fan base just loves to cut, or trade people for no reason.
Like talking about trading a 23 year old Pass Rusher in Fowler, when this league is all about rushing the passer and how you can't have enough of them.
Simply stupid.
(03-17-2018, 05:16 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]I've been saying it for months now. Hurns is washed up. I don't know if injuries took their toll or what but he is not the same player.
Washed up? He has been hurt and the last game we played he was finall healthy and our best WR
(03-17-2018, 01:30 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I see no news on Hurns. I think that means he's back. I really don't get it. Lee is clearly a starter. The ink is still wet on Moncrief. You can say he's unproven, etc., but I can't believe they would pay Moncrief that money if they didn't see him as a starter or at least a significant role player. Personally, I like Cole better than Hurns. Cole had 748 yards as a rookie. With one exception, that's more yards than any season Hurns has ever had. Hurns has had less than 500 yards in each of his last two seasons. Although active in all 16 games, Cole only had 6 starts last year too. With more playing experience and more playing time, I see good things from him. I like Westbrook better than Hurns too. He shows a lot of potential. Mickens will also be active on game days to return punts. Where does that leave Hurns? I think he makes the team, assuming we keep six wide receivers, but he would be my game day inactive. I don't see him playing much, barring injuries to other players. Paying $7 million for that seems like a bad use of our money.
Why pay Moncrief $7 million and Hurns $7 million, when $14 million comes close to what A-Rob got in free agency? We don't need a lot of players. We need good players. You can say A-Rob is a risk, but Moncrief isn't?
If we are going to spend $7 million on a backup, why not quarterback? At least it's the most important position on the field and we currently have no one.
Alternatively, we could have used the money from Hurns to keep Colvin instead of Hayden and still have over $4 million of additional free cap room to spare.
This is a very strange move. I hope there's some news of a secret trade, but I doubt it. I think we would have heard by now.
Moncreif's money is all salary with no signing bonus. That means he has to be on the roster week one to qualify to receive his salary. If he doesn't perform in camp or the preseason, the jags can cut him before the season starts and we would be off the hook for his 7 mil.
I don't think they are in any rush to trade Hurns. Moncrief will have to prove himself in camp and the preseason to earn his deal.
If Hurns plays well in the preseason and Moncrief doesn't, they can cut Moncrief and not be on the hook for anything.
If Moncrief performs like they hope and Hurns doesn't play well enough for a roster spot, then Hurns could go on the trading block late in the preseason. There are always teams at that time of year dealing with injuries that would be interested in a trade.
(03-17-2018, 06:33 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2018, 01:30 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I see no news on Hurns. I think that means he's back. I really don't get it. Lee is clearly a starter. The ink is still wet on Moncrief. You can say he's unproven, etc., but I can't believe they would pay Moncrief that money if they didn't see him as a starter or at least a significant role player. Personally, I like Cole better than Hurns. Cole had 748 yards as a rookie. With one exception, that's more yards than any season Hurns has ever had. Hurns has had less than 500 yards in each of his last two seasons. Although active in all 16 games, Cole only had 6 starts last year too. With more playing experience and more playing time, I see good things from him. I like Westbrook better than Hurns too. He shows a lot of potential. Mickens will also be active on game days to return punts. Where does that leave Hurns? I think he makes the team, assuming we keep six wide receivers, but he would be my game day inactive. I don't see him playing much, barring injuries to other players. Paying $7 million for that seems like a bad use of our money.
Why pay Moncrief $7 million and Hurns $7 million, when $14 million comes close to what A-Rob got in free agency? We don't need a lot of players. We need good players. You can say A-Rob is a risk, but Moncrief isn't?
If we are going to spend $7 million on a backup, why not quarterback? At least it's the most important position on the field and we currently have no one.
Alternatively, we could have used the money from Hurns to keep Colvin instead of Hayden and still have over $4 million of additional free cap room to spare.
This is a very strange move. I hope there's some news of a secret trade, but I doubt it. I think we would have heard by now.
Moncreif's money is all salary with no signing bonus. That means he has to be on the roster week one to qualify to receive his salary. If he doesn't perform in camp or the preseason, the jags can cut him before the season starts and we would be off the hook for his 7 mil.
Moncrief needs to fire his agent.
(03-17-2018, 07:19 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2018, 06:33 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Moncreif's money is all salary with no signing bonus. That means he has to be on the roster week one to qualify to receive his salary. If he doesn't perform in camp or the preseason, the jags can cut him before the season starts and we would be off the hook for his 7 mil.
Moncrief needs to fire his agent.
Moncrief needs to start performing. He is the one that got himself in a situation to receive a prove it deal not his agent.
(03-17-2018, 07:19 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2018, 06:33 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Moncreif's money is all salary with no signing bonus. That means he has to be on the roster week one to qualify to receive his salary. If he doesn't perform in camp or the preseason, the jags can cut him before the season starts and we would be off the hook for his 7 mil.
Moncrief needs to fire his agent.
With Moncrief’s injury history, I’m not sure anyone would guarantee any part of a 1 year deal with him.
(03-17-2018, 05:50 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2018, 04:20 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't get why people want to move on from hurns? I don't care what his cap number is he's productive I'd prefer to keep him.
This fan base just loves to cut, or trade people for no reason.
Like talking about trading a 23 year old Pass Rusher in Fowler, when this league is all about rushing the passer and how you can't have enough of them.
Simply stupid.
It is really not stupid if it lands them the QB they want this draft and when you consider we are already 27M over the cap next season without factoring in rookie class (~6M), Fowler's option (13M), and ASJ deal (5M?)... going to be about 50M above. I'd love for them to keep Fowler, but he is the best tradable piece we have and if they want to get a QB they are in love with Fowler can possibly get them to that pick. By no means is it a "must trade Fowler" thing.