(12-05-2019, 10:51 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (12-05-2019, 03:25 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]How would that make him less employable? It would exonerate him from the bad decision.
Saying Coughlin made the call wouldn't interfere with his ability to focus. It would most likely relieve the pressure he is facing from the the public and the media.
Publicly complaining about your boss is a great way to make sure no future bosses want to hire you.
Who says he has to complain? He could throw subtle hints about it in his pressers.
Just like Eric1 pointed out in a different situation:
Eric1 Wrote: Marrone basically called out Coughlin during that whole Ramsey crap.
When Coughlin threw him out there to answer questions about what happened/the trade and Marrone basically said... "I don't know, I don't have those answers.. I wish somebody in the building would come out here and answer them for you..."
That's him basically saying, "I had nothing to do with that."
He could have made the same type of subtle comment about the Foles situation, but he didn't.
That's because he can't blame anyone else.
(12-05-2019, 10:44 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (12-05-2019, 09:55 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Coughlin is stubborn and hard headed.. He isn't going to admit to his mistakes, which is why they never get fixed. Paying Foles was a mistake and him benching Foles would be him admitting to that mistake. Zero chance of that happening. I have no doubts he wants him in there playing right now. But since he's not "officially the HC" it would look really bad if he came out and publicly undermined the HC by announcing the QB decision.
Marrone has eyes, just like we all do. We still may not win with Minshew at QB, but he sure as hell gives us a better chance than Foles. It's easy to see. Marrone is on his way out regardless, win or lose, I'm sure he knows that. He doesn't have anything to lose by doing his actual job and playing the better player, regardless of what some other people may want. He is the actual HC after all.
Back up QBs NEVER get reps like they were giving Minshew in practice. That rarely ever happens. Marrone wanted to keep him working for some reason and it wasn't just for developmental purposes.
Teams have been trying to develop young QBs for years and years and teams rarely ever give a back up QB meaningful reps. Especially when your so called starter has been playing as awful as he was and could have used every rep he could get.
He very well could have not wanted to bench Minshew in the first place. I mean, he did say he was going to take the bye week to look it over and think about it, then all of a sudden the next day Foles is announced the starter. Something just doesn't seem right about that one. Wants to take some time to look it over, but over night decides a guy coming off IR for the past 2 1/2 months actually gives you the best chance to win? Sure.
Why on earth would he have to publicly announce the starting QB? According to you, he does these things behind the scenes.
How do we know Foles wasn't looking sharp in practice? He looked really good the few plays he had in game one. It's not outlandish to think that a coach, during an important stretch, would want a guy who has one heck of a late season resume to take over for a rookie who has never played in that situation. Even good rookies are known for making mistakes in clutch situations and nothing was more clutch than the three game stretch where Foles started. You may wonder why he would stick with him as long as he did. Why does it always seem to take Marrone to fix problems in things like his game plans. How many times have you asked yourself "why do we keep doing this?" only for Marrone to come out in the post game and have to answer questions with things like "Yeah, we should have been doing this."
Minshew only got extra reps before last game. What coach wouldn't prepare their back up after watching those first two games even if the starter was you first choice?
When has Coughlin ever suddenly announced a starter early? That's not his style. If Coughlin was orchestrating this, the QB status would be announced as a game time decision as much as the league would let him. He, if you remember, was a guy often accused of not being honest with a player's injury status so that other teams wouldn't know who was starting until the last minute.
Marrone has just been going through the motions ever since that Ramsey non sense. You can see it in all of his press conferences. It was blatantly obvious then who was pulling the strings and making the decisions, when they went behind Marrone's back and didn't even let him know/bring him into the discussion about all of that. Shouldn't the HC of the team be brought into that meeting? Shouldn't he be made aware of what was going on? Instead he just gets thrown out in front of a bunch of reporters to answer questions he knows nothing about.
No, they were still giving Minshew reps the whole time after Foles came back, not just last week.
You can keep defending Coughlin all you want, but the masses here see/know he's a problem and so does everybody on the outside of this fan base. Coughlin is a root of the problem with his meddling ways. He needs to go. Along with Marrone and everybody else, but he needs to be the first one out the door if there's any hope for this franchise going forward.
(12-05-2019, 11:38 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-05-2019, 10:44 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Why on earth would he have to publicly announce the starting QB? According to you, he does these things behind the scenes.
How do we know Foles wasn't looking sharp in practice? He looked really good the few plays he had in game one. It's not outlandish to think that a coach, during an important stretch, would want a guy who has one heck of a late season resume to take over for a rookie who has never played in that situation. Even good rookies are known for making mistakes in clutch situations and nothing was more clutch than the three game stretch where Foles started. You may wonder why he would stick with him as long as he did. Why does it always seem to take Marrone to fix problems in things like his game plans. How many times have you asked yourself "why do we keep doing this?" only for Marrone to come out in the post game and have to answer questions with things like "Yeah, we should have been doing this."
Minshew only got extra reps before last game. What coach wouldn't prepare their back up after watching those first two games even if the starter was you first choice?
When has Coughlin ever suddenly announced a starter early? That's not his style. If Coughlin was orchestrating this, the QB status would be announced as a game time decision as much as the league would let him. He, if you remember, was a guy often accused of not being honest with a player's injury status so that other teams wouldn't know who was starting until the last minute.
Marrone has just been going through the motions ever since that Ramsey non sense. You can see it in all of his press conferences. It was blatantly obvious then who was pulling the strings and making the decisions, when they went behind Marrone's back and didn't even let him know/bring him into the discussion about all of that. Shouldn't the HC of the team be brought into that meeting? Shouldn't he be made aware of what was going on? Instead he just gets thrown out in front of a bunch of reporters to answer questions he knows nothing about.
No, they were still giving Minshew reps the whole time after Foles came back, not just last week.
You can keep defending Coughlin all you want, but the masses here see/know he's a problem and so does everybody on the outside of this fan base. Coughlin is a root of the problem with his meddling ways. He needs to go. Along with Marrone and everybody else, but he needs to be the first one out the door if there's any hope for this franchise going forward.
Marrone was fully aware what he was getting into with the presser and planned accordingly. He's not stupid. You yourself pointed out how he prepared to answer questions with a jab at the FO.
I saw a report stating Minshew was getting extra reps last week only.
If you have any actual media reports stating that he was getting extra reps before last week, please share.
You are dodging the question as to why they would name Minshew the starter for the rest of the season if Coughlin was so determined to make Foles the starter, why would he shoot down the possibility of Foles coming back if he were trying to save face?
If Coughlin were trying to save face he would have left the door open for Foles to possibly return if Minshew struggles.
(12-06-2019, 08:43 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (12-05-2019, 11:38 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Marrone has just been going through the motions ever since that Ramsey non sense. You can see it in all of his press conferences. It was blatantly obvious then who was pulling the strings and making the decisions, when they went behind Marrone's back and didn't even let him know/bring him into the discussion about all of that. Shouldn't the HC of the team be brought into that meeting? Shouldn't he be made aware of what was going on? Instead he just gets thrown out in front of a bunch of reporters to answer questions he knows nothing about.
No, they were still giving Minshew reps the whole time after Foles came back, not just last week.
You can keep defending Coughlin all you want, but the masses here see/know he's a problem and so does everybody on the outside of this fan base. Coughlin is a root of the problem with his meddling ways. He needs to go. Along with Marrone and everybody else, but he needs to be the first one out the door if there's any hope for this franchise going forward.
Marrone was fully aware what he was getting into and planned accordingly. He's not that stupid. You yourself pointed out how he answered questions with a jab at the FO.
I saw a report stating Minshew was getting extra reps last week only.
If you have any actual media reports stating that he was getting extra reps before last week, please share.
Minshew said he's been doing it since the switch.
(12-05-2019, 03:25 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (12-05-2019, 02:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Makes him less employable + i'm sure he just wants to focus on football for his last few weeks
How would that make him less employable? It would exonerate him from the bad decision.
Saying Coughlin made the call wouldn't interfere with his ability to focus. It would most likely relieve the pressure he is facing from the the public and the media.
I don't know if you've been following but football isnt a profession conducive to questioning authority.
Doug going all out war Vs his higher up (a HOF coach) will only make him less employable as an offensive assistant in the NFL. It's not difficult to understand, both guys are getting fired.
(12-06-2019, 08:53 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-06-2019, 08:43 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Marrone was fully aware what he was getting into and planned accordingly. He's not that stupid. You yourself pointed out how he answered questions with a jab at the FO.
I saw a report stating Minshew was getting extra reps last week only.
If you have any actual media reports stating that he was getting extra reps before last week, please share.
Minshew said he's been doing it since the switch.
(12-05-2019, 03:25 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]How would that make him less employable? It would exonerate him from the bad decision.
Saying Coughlin made the call wouldn't interfere with his ability to focus. It would most likely relieve the pressure he is facing from the the public and the media.
I don't know if you've been following but football isnt a profession conducive to questioning authority.
Doug going all out war Vs his higher up (a HOF coach) will only make him less employable as an offensive assistant in the NFL. It's not difficult to understand, both guys are getting fired.
Agreed with that above in bold. It's all political. You can't burn bridges. No matter how much you may feel right and justified in doing so you ultimately just can't do it. And usually the truth comes out all in due time.
(12-05-2019, 11:08 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-05-2019, 10:39 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Why would a coach staff give a 6th round rookie extra reps at practice for the last few weeks, instead of using extra reps for the starter?
Perhaps... they knew Foles wasn't the answer. Perhaps they never wanted to make the switch and knew at some point, they'd have to switch back?
More evidence that the front office is meddling.
TC has GOT to go!
Wrong!
You see Tom's role is VP which means he's the boss of Caldwell and Marrone. He would never micro-manage or meddle.
I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcasm or not.
(12-05-2019, 02:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-05-2019, 01:20 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]What also doesn't make sense is that if this was Coughlin's call, why wouldn't Marrone just come out and say it was Coughlin's decision?
He would have already been insubordinate. What reason would he have to not throw Coughlin under the bus for it? He already knows he's a dead man walking.
Makes him less employable + i'm sure he just wants to focus on football for his last few weeks
That, and he continues collecting checks through the end of the month.
He throws the EVPsomethingsomething under the bus, he's fired the very next day.
If he stays quiet, and Tom fires him under the guise of not following marching orders Re: the starting QB, Tom severely hurts his chance of bringing in any coach who doesn't want to be guided by puppet strings. This Doug guy might be smarter than we give him credit for (stop laughing).
(12-06-2019, 09:43 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-05-2019, 11:08 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Wrong!
You see Tom's role is VP which means he's the boss of Caldwell and Marrone. He would never micro-manage or meddle.
I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcasm or not.
(12-05-2019, 02:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Makes him less employable + i'm sure he just wants to focus on football for his last few weeks
That, and he continues collecting checks through the end of the month.
He throws the EVPsomethingsomething under the bus, he's fired the very next day.
If he stays quiet, and Tom fires him under the guise of not following marching orders Re: the starting QB, Tom severely hurts his chance of bringing in any coach who doesn't want to be guided by puppet strings. This Doug guy might be smarter than we give him credit for (stop laughing).
Cleat was definitely being sarcastic. Just a few posts prior he was talking about Tom the micro manager.
(12-06-2019, 11:07 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (12-06-2019, 09:43 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcasm or not.
That, and he continues collecting checks through the end of the month.
He throws the EVPsomethingsomething under the bus, he's fired the very next day.
If he stays quiet, and Tom fires him under the guise of not following marching orders Re: the starting QB, Tom severely hurts his chance of bringing in any coach who doesn't want to be guided by puppet strings. This Doug guy might be smarter than we give him credit for (stop laughing).
Cleat was definitely being sarcastic. Just a few posts prior he was talking about Tom the micro manager.
Yep. Cleatus is always sarcastic. It's admirable.
(12-06-2019, 11:37 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-06-2019, 11:07 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Cleat was definitely being sarcastic. Just a few posts prior he was talking about Tom the micro manager.
Yep. Cleatus is always sarcastic. It's admirable.
Sarcasm is the crutch that I must bare.
(12-06-2019, 09:43 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-05-2019, 11:08 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Wrong!
You see Tom's role is VP which means he's the boss of Caldwell and Marrone. He would never micro-manage or meddle.
I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcasm or not.
(12-05-2019, 02:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Makes him less employable + i'm sure he just wants to focus on football for his last few weeks
That, and he continues collecting checks through the end of the month.
He throws the EVPsomethingsomething under the bus, he's fired the very next day.
If he stays quiet, and Tom fires him under the guise of not following marching orders Re: the starting QB, Tom severely hurts his chance of bringing in any coach who doesn't want to be guided by puppet strings. This Doug guy might be smarter than we give him credit for (stop laughing).
Highly doubtful Tom can fire Doug without Shad signing off. And highly doubtful Shad signs off if Tom's to be let go anyway
To me, it all should be blown up. Even Caldwell, who has brought us some talented players, has one of the worst records as GM since his hiring in 2013. I’m shocked he lasted this long
Did anyone catch the most recent Bold Take podcast?
Dilla - a known jags Twitter insider dropped some nuggets on the last episode. Apparently the shouting match between Doug and Coughlin after the game was indeed about benching Foles over Minshew.
To paraphrase:
Tom said to Doug “I told you if Nick is healthy then he plays no matter what.”
And Doug responded by saying “for however long I’m here I’m just trying to win a game”
They then proceeded to drop f bombs to each other.
He also mentioned that Tom was the the one who was all in on drafting Fournette. Dave wanted to either trade back and take CMC or Mahomes.
Link below. Podcast is probably NSFW:
https://twitter.com/boldtakepod/status/1...66752?s=21
(12-06-2019, 02:26 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]Did anyone catch the most recent Bold Take podcast?
Dilla - a known jags Twitter insider dropped some nuggets on the last episode. Apparently the shouting match between Doug and Coughlin after the game was indeed about benching Foles over Minshew.
To paraphrase:
Tom said to Doug “I told you if Nick is healthy then he plays no matter what.”
And Doug responded by saying “for however long I’m here I’m just trying to win a game”
They then proceeded to drop f bombs to each other.
He also mentioned that Tom was the the one who was all in on drafting Fournette. Dave wanted to either trade back and take CMC or Mahomes.
Link below. Podcast is probably NSFW:
https://twitter.com/boldtakepod/status/1...66752?s=21
Ya don't say? Tom was meddling?! Couldn't be....
Also, if it's true regarding Coughlin wanting Fournette (Which makes total sense) and Caldwell wanting CMac or Mahomes...... I mean... Come on!
Wow, if Caldwell wanted to trade back and select the aforementioned...just wow. The Fournette pick reeks of Coughlin. Curtis Enis anyone? I'm all for keeping Caldwell and getting rid of everyone else.
You mean the guy that wanted to trade up for Curtis Ennis wanted to stay pat and draft Fournette? No way. Dang nostalgia, why was I excited when he came back.
(12-06-2019, 02:26 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]Did anyone catch the most recent Bold Take podcast?
Dilla - a known jags Twitter insider dropped some nuggets on the last episode. Apparently the shouting match between Doug and Coughlin after the game was indeed about benching Foles over Minshew.
To paraphrase:
Tom said to Doug “I told you if Nick is healthy then he plays no matter what.”
And Doug responded by saying “for however long I’m here I’m just trying to win a game”
They then proceeded to drop f bombs to each other.
He also mentioned that Tom was the the one who was all in on drafting Fournette. Dave wanted to either trade back and take CMC or Mahomes.
Link below. Podcast is probably NSFW:
https://twitter.com/boldtakepod/status/1...66752?s=21
Damn. If this is ALL true. Coughlin needs to be gone. And I will eat my crow regarding Caldwell. If it was also true that Bradley's hiring was more so of Khan's doing? I am more than willing to eat my crow and say that Caldwell deserves to stay. Khan needs to step away completely with the hiring decisions as well and just let Caldwell do his thing.
This is damning information if true.
I wouldn't be surprised one bit that any if not all of it is true. This team has screwed up at every turn. Honestly what would have happened if we had Mahomes? Do we really think we would make him a star
(12-06-2019, 02:26 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]Did anyone catch the most recent Bold Take podcast?
Dilla - a known jags Twitter insider dropped some nuggets on the last episode. Apparently the shouting match between Doug and Coughlin after the game was indeed about benching Foles over Minshew.
To paraphrase:
Tom said to Doug “I told you if Nick is healthy then he plays no matter what.”
And Doug responded by saying “for however long I’m here I’m just trying to win a game”
They then proceeded to drop f bombs to each other.
He also mentioned that Tom was the the one who was all in on drafting Fournette. Dave wanted to either trade back and take CMC or Mahomes.
Link below. Podcast is probably NSFW:
https://twitter.com/boldtakepod/status/1...66752?s=21
I've had too many debates on this MB for this t be all true. How will the keyboard warriors continue to stay relevant if so? I'm still open for the 1 million a year GM job offer. IJS
If Caldwell wanted to do that, i'd let him. Hell those are the picks i wanted as well. Only an idiot would debate. Actually i wanted CMC or Dalvin Cook out of FSU as a gator fan at that. Get this cancer out of DUVAL immediately.
(12-06-2019, 04:14 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't be surprised one bit that any if not all of it is true. This team has screwed up at every turn. Honestly what would have happened if we had Mahomes? Do we really think we would make him a star
Mahomes is a natural with the football. He has certainly showcased abilities that you honestly can't teach or coach. Would he have been as successful here as he is now in Kansas City? Probably not. But it's the principle of it. We all kept bashing Caldwell for the Bortles selection, and rightfully so. But if Coughlin overruled the possibility of moving back in the draft to secure a franchise QB + gaining additional draft picks he needs to be shown the door.
It's pretty clear the old man has already over stepped. We got a sense of that during the post-Ramsey trade conference with Marrone out on the podium fielding questions that needed to be directed at Coughlin more than likely. Fournette over McCaffrey and/or Mahomes with a trade down? Bortles' extension? Foles contract and recent blow-up with Marrone?
He needs to go. . .
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