Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(09-17-2024, 03:03 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 02:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]A different OC running the same offense just isn't going to have the effect you seem to think it will. 
It's Doug's offense. Every play that is called by someone other than Doug goes through his headset and he can change it whenever he wants to. 

If you have the opinion that plays and playcalling are the biggest enemy of our team right now and you want to fix it by replacing Taylor with a coach/coordinator in our system or in Doug's orbit -- that would be like having multiple fractures in your forearm and placing a splint on your pinky finger to fix it. 

Ain't gonna do jack [BLEEP]

I disagree.

What actions in Doug Pedersen's history makes you think he would do any of what you are saying? 

If anything past history in Philly and recent press conferences suggest DP is more like to dig his heels in and be stubborn about his beliefs/method.

(09-17-2024, 03:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 03:03 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree.

You could tell me you disagree that you'll get wet while going swimming and it would make as much sense.

If you had the world's fastest race car, would you prefer the world's most qualified racer behind the wheel or a 16 year old with his freshly printed driver's permit behind the wheel?

It's really mind numbing to see both sides of this argument having staunch supporters of an all or nothing attitude camp wise.

The "It's the players and poor execution camp" Vs. "It's the the coaching and poor play design camp". It's both, it's [BLEEP] both!

Why can't anybody admit that? Why is that complicated to understand here? Again, you can have:

1. The right call with the wrong execution.

2. The wrong call with the right execution.

3. The right call with the right execution.

4. The wrong call with the wrong execution.

It's a soup. At this level? You're going to see people nitpick every little attention to detail.

It's a group project though, every week, there's film study, a gameplan installed, it's then practiced based upon the script, and then, some adjustments are made or failed to be made mid game.

When you weigh it all out though? Somebody has to unfortunately carry the heaviest of the burden after each loss because it's a sum of all things, however, somebody's sum, or, lack thereof, completely [BLEEP] the project up.

It's possible to lose football games even if your QB goes 25/25, 275 yards with 3 TD's and no turnovers.

It's possible to lose football games when you only score 20 points via a pair of TD's and 2 FG's but your opponent managed to score 21 points by simply doing enough 7 times to enable their kicker to make 7 FG's.

It's just the way it goes. Players need to catch virtually everything. Lawrence basically has to play perfectly. The team in general cannot afford to turn it over. The team cannot have mental errors in the redzone. The team cannot keep failing on short yardage situations. The defense cannot give up 16 play drives for 80 yards and nearly 8:00 - 9:00 minutes of time to the opposing offense.

Like Trevor said. They all suck. The players need to play better and the coaches need to coach better. Is the "It's the players and the poor execution" camp going to round up Trevor for that comment? And throw him off the Modis building for calling out the coaching staff after he's been with them for two years now entering year three?

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Dude, I have no idea why my post was quadrupled. Deleted for brevity. Someone else quoted my thoughts.

(09-17-2024, 03:51 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 03:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You could tell me you disagree that you'll get wet while going swimming and it would make as much sense.

If you had the world's fastest race car, would you prefer the world's most qualified racer behind the wheel or a 16 year old with his freshly printed driver's permit behind the wheel?

It's really mind numbing to see both sides of this argument having staunch supporters of an all or nothing attitude camp wise.

The "It's the players and poor execution camp" Vs. "It's the the coaching and poor play design camp". It's both, it's [BLEEP] both!

Why can't anybody admit that? Why is that complicated to understand here? Again, you can have:

1. The right call with the wrong execution.

2. The wrong call with the right execution.

3. The right call with the right execution.

4. The wrong call with the wrong execution.

It's a soup. At this level? You're going to see people nitpick every little attention to detail.

It's a group project though, every week, there's film study, a gameplan installed, it's then practiced based upon the script, and then, some adjustments are made or failed to be made mid game.

When you weigh it all out though? Somebody has to unfortunately carry the heaviest of the burden after each loss because it's a sum of all things, however, somebody's sum, or, lack thereof, completely [BLEEP] the project up.

It's possible to lose football games even if your QB goes 25/25, 275 yards with 3 TD's and no turnovers.

It's possible to lose football games when you only score 20 points via a pair of TD's and 2 FG's but your opponent managed to score 21 points by simply doing enough 7 times to enable their kicker to make 7 FG's.

It's just the way it goes. Players need to catch virtually everything. Lawrence basically has to play perfectly. The team in general cannot afford to turn it over. The team cannot have mental errors in the redzone. The team cannot keep failing on short yardage situations. The defense cannot give up 16 play drives for 80 yards and nearly 8:00 - 9:00 minutes of time to the opposing offense.

Like Trevor said. They all suck. The players need to play better and the coaches need to coach better. Is the "It's the players and the poor execution" camp going to round up Trevor for that comment? And throw him off the Modis building for calling out the coaching staff after he's been with them for two years now entering year three?

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Putting a different human in Press Taylor's place to call Doug Pederson's plays in Doug Pederson's offense has got to be the half-est of half-measures I could think of to alter the course of our offense. 

I think getting TL's drop back pressure percentage form 47% down to 25% would make about 1000 times more positive impact. 
That's a lot of "wrong execution" that is easily identifiable and often results with passing production left unfulfilled.

But sure. There are likely  better play callers out there, I'm sure. No idea what real effect it would have, though.
Doug is free to intervene all he wants with what Press (or any coordinator) is doing. None of us actually know how many plays on Sunday were called by Doug, how many were called by Press, or how many Press called that Doug altered.

(09-17-2024, 04:01 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 03:51 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]If you had the world's fastest race car, would you prefer the world's most qualified racer behind the wheel or a 16 year old with his freshly printed driver's permit behind the wheel?

It's really mind numbing to see both sides of this argument having staunch supporters of an all or nothing attitude camp wise.

The "It's the players and poor execution camp" Vs. "It's the the coaching and poor play design camp". It's both, it's [BLEEP] both!

Why can't anybody admit that? Why is that complicated to understand here? Again, you can have:

1. The right call with the wrong execution.

2. The wrong call with the right execution.

3. The right call with the right execution.

4. The wrong call with the wrong execution.

It's a soup. At this level? You're going to see people nitpick every little attention to detail.

It's a group project though, every week, there's film study, a gameplan installed, it's then practiced based upon the script, and then, some adjustments are made or failed to be made mid game.

When you weigh it all out though? Somebody has to unfortunately carry the heaviest of the burden after each loss because it's a sum of all things, however, somebody's sum, or, lack thereof, completely [BLEEP] the project up.

It's possible to lose football games even if your QB goes 25/25, 275 yards with 3 TD's and no turnovers.

It's possible to lose football games when you only score 20 points via a pair of TD's and 2 FG's but your opponent managed to score 21 points by simply doing enough 7 times to enable their kicker to make 7 FG's.

It's just the way it goes. Players need to catch virtually everything. Lawrence basically has to play perfectly. The team in general cannot afford to turn it over. The team cannot have mental errors in the redzone. The team cannot keep failing on short yardage situations. The defense cannot give up 16 play drives for 80 yards and nearly 8:00 - 9:00 minutes of time to the opposing offense.

Like Trevor said. They all suck. The players need to play better and the coaches need to coach better. Is the "It's the players and the poor execution" camp going to round up Trevor for that comment? And throw him off the Modis building for calling out the coaching staff after he's been with them for two years now entering year three?

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Putting a different human in Press Taylor's place to call Doug Pederson's plays in Doug Pederson's offense has got to be the half-est of half-measures I could think of to alter the course of our offense. 

I think getting TL's drop back pressure percentage form 47% down to 25% would make about 1000 times more positive impact. 
That's a lot of "wrong execution" that is easily identifiable and often results with passing production left unfulfilled.

But sure. There are likely  better play callers out there, I'm sure. No idea what real effect it would have, though.
Doug is free to intervene all he wants with what Press (or any coordinator) is doing. None of us actually know how many plays on Sunday were called by Doug, how many were called by Press, or how many Press called that Doug altered.

Except we all say how good the offense was in 2022 when Doug was hands full on...

He's half [BLEEP] it since then....

(09-17-2024, 04:03 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 04:01 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Putting a different human in Press Taylor's place to call Doug Pederson's plays in Doug Pederson's offense has got to be the half-est of half-measures I could think of to alter the course of our offense. 

I think getting TL's drop back pressure percentage form 47% down to 25% would make about 1000 times more positive impact. 
That's a lot of "wrong execution" that is easily identifiable and often results with passing production left unfulfilled.

But sure. There are likely  better play callers out there, I'm sure. No idea what real effect it would have, though.
Doug is free to intervene all he wants with what Press (or any coordinator) is doing. None of us actually know how many plays on Sunday were called by Doug, how many were called by Press, or how many Press called that Doug altered.

Except we all say how good the offense was in 2022 when Doug was hands full on...

He's half [BLEEP] it since then....

No. The offense  in 2022 was good in spurts but sorely lacked downfield throwing and struggled mightily at times. 

You are attempting revisionist history to make a poorly formed point.

If you want to say you think Doug was a bit more crafty with his dink and dunk calls than the way Press programs his together.. that's about all you can surmise between 2022 and 2023 comps. Not a lot of meat on that bone I'm afraid.

(09-17-2024, 04:05 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 04:03 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Except we all say how good the offense was in 2022 when Doug was hands full on...

He's half [BLEEP] it since then....

No. The offense  in 2022 was good in spurts but sorely lacked downfield throwing and struggled mightily at times. 

You are attempting revisionist history to make a poorly formed point.

I totally disagree.  This offense in 2022 looked like a real NFL offense.  Everyone that remembers 2022 remembers how great this offense looked.  Yeah, there were games where Trevor wet the bed...  The London game comes to mind...  But even that game, Trevor drove us down the field constantly.

I remember people, including myself, at awe with how few 3 and outs we had.  We moved the ball.  We had route concepts that rivaled KC's.  Our O-Line was suspect and people were worried, yes even back then, that Trevor was going to get killed behind that line.

But we kept defenses on their heels and we played great.  What's more, we would look bad in the 1st half, and then...  in the 2nd half WE MADE ADJUSTMENTS!

I'm not being revisionist when I call back to 2022.  But maybe 2022 was the outlier.  I don't want to believe that.  But I clearly remember how good this offense was back then.  What changed and continues to not be corrected since then is the question.  To me, I think it's Doug's decision to allow his OC to have more control...

Maybe I'm wrong.  I hope I'm not.  Because if I'm wrong, then I guess we have to start all over again.  There will never be an O-Line that everyone is satisfied with, not in this league.  There will always be pressure on the QB.  It's the name of the game.  But the hope is that you have a HC and OC that can figure out how to get his players in the best position on most plays to get positive yardage.

---

(09-17-2024, 04:01 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 03:51 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]If you had the world's fastest race car, would you prefer the world's most qualified racer behind the wheel or a 16 year old with his freshly printed driver's permit behind the wheel?

It's really mind numbing to see both sides of this argument having staunch supporters of an all or nothing attitude camp wise.

The "It's the players and poor execution camp" Vs. "It's the the coaching and poor play design camp". It's both, it's [BLEEP] both!

Why can't anybody admit that? Why is that complicated to understand here? Again, you can have:

1. The right call with the wrong execution.

2. The wrong call with the right execution.

3. The right call with the right execution.

4. The wrong call with the wrong execution.

It's a soup. At this level? You're going to see people nitpick every little attention to detail.

It's a group project though, every week, there's film study, a gameplan installed, it's then practiced based upon the script, and then, some adjustments are made or failed to be made mid game.

When you weigh it all out though? Somebody has to unfortunately carry the heaviest of the burden after each loss because it's a sum of all things, however, somebody's sum, or, lack thereof, completely [BLEEP] the project up.

It's possible to lose football games even if your QB goes 25/25, 275 yards with 3 TD's and no turnovers.

It's possible to lose football games when you only score 20 points via a pair of TD's and 2 FG's but your opponent managed to score 21 points by simply doing enough 7 times to enable their kicker to make 7 FG's.

It's just the way it goes. Players need to catch virtually everything. Lawrence basically has to play perfectly. The team in general cannot afford to turn it over. The team cannot have mental errors in the redzone. The team cannot keep failing on short yardage situations. The defense cannot give up 16 play drives for 80 yards and nearly 8:00 - 9:00 minutes of time to the opposing offense.

Like Trevor said. They all suck. The players need to play better and the coaches need to coach better. Is the "It's the players and the poor execution" camp going to round up Trevor for that comment? And throw him off the Modis building for calling out the coaching staff after he's been with them for two years now entering year three?

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Putting a different human in Press Taylor's place to call Doug Pederson's plays in Doug Pederson's offense has got to be the half-est of half-measures I could think of to alter the course of our offense. 

I think getting TL's drop back pressure percentage form 47% down to 25% would make about 1000 times more positive impact. 
That's a lot of "wrong execution" that is easily identifiable and often results with passing production left unfulfilled.

But sure. There are likely  better play callers out there, I'm sure. No idea what real effect it would have, though.
Doug is free to intervene all he wants with what Press (or any coordinator) is doing. None of us actually know how many plays on Sunday were called by Doug, how many were called by Press, or how many Press called that Doug altered.

It's called game flow and experience. Some guys have a better sense of this based on their experience. Some guys are lining up plays 3, 4 sequences in advance anticipating that they're going to strike gold on that 4th or 5th sequence.

They have intuition. They may see something the other guy doesn't. They may feel something is off and actually back off that play or alter something based on what they sense. Could be subtle. Could be massively monumental.

There's something to be said to that argument. I defended Press last year. A lot. I also haven't outright said he's the issue or that Doug needs to take over the playcalling like a fully fledged OC.

I get a sense that it's still relatively the same that it's been since 2022 responsibility wise and maybe just a little bit more has been put on PT's plate since 2023 so DP can focus on the totality of the team.

He's still very much involved offensively. It was made obvious by he and Trevor's interactions on the sideline in between timeouts and commercial timeouts.

It's no different than what Reid was doing with Bieniemy in KC before he split for Washington and they had their questionable rough patches as well with Mahomes and Bieniemy getting into spats.

It's a process. I have said this several times as well. This team is streaky. That's just the nature of it with Doug. They'll eventually get on a hot streak and keep it going and hopefully avoid growing cold again.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

---

(09-17-2024, 04:12 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 04:05 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]No. The offense  in 2022 was good in spurts but sorely lacked downfield throwing and struggled mightily at times. 

You are attempting revisionist history to make a poorly formed point.

I totally disagree.  This offense in 2022 looked like a real NFL offense.  Everyone that remembers 2022 remembers how great this offense looked.  Yeah, there were games where Trevor wet the bed...  The London game comes to mind...  But even that game, Trevor drove us down the field constantly.

I remember people, including myself, at awe with how few 3 and outs we had.  We moved the ball.  We had route concepts that rivaled KC's.  Our O-Line was suspect and people were worried, yes even back then, that Trevor was going to get killed behind that line.

But we kept defenses on their heels and we played great.  What's more, we would look bad in the 1st half, and then...  in the 2nd half WE MADE ADJUSTMENTS!

I'm not being revisionist when I call back to 2022.  But maybe 2022 was the outlier.  I don't want to believe that.  But I clearly remember how good this offense was back then.  What changed and continues to not be corrected since then is the question.  To me, I think it's Doug's decision to allow his OC to have more control...

Maybe I'm wrong.  I hope I'm not.  Because if I'm wrong, then I guess we have to start all over again.  There will never be an O-Line that everyone is satisfied with, not in this league.  There will always be pressure on the QB.  It's the name of the game.  But the hope is that you have a HC and OC that can figure out how to get his players in the best position on most plays to get positive yardage.

---

2022 was Doug calling 1st halves and Press calling 2nd halves. They were a 2nd half football team in 2022.

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(09-17-2024, 04:12 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 04:05 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]No. The offense  in 2022 was good in spurts but sorely lacked downfield throwing and struggled mightily at times. 

You are attempting revisionist history to make a poorly formed point.

I totally disagree.  This offense in 2022 looked like a real NFL offense.  Everyone that remembers 2022 remembers how great this offense looked.  Yeah, there were games where Trevor wet the bed...  The London game comes to mind...  But even that game, Trevor drove us down the field constantly.

I remember people, including myself, at awe with how few 3 and outs we had.  We moved the ball.  We had route concepts that rivaled KC's.  Our O-Line was suspect and people were worried, yes even back then, that Trevor was going to get killed behind that line.

But we kept defenses on their heels and we played great.  What's more, we would look bad in the 1st half, and then...  in the 2nd half WE MADE ADJUSTMENTS!

I'm not being revisionist when I call back to 2022.  But maybe 2022 was the outlier.  I don't want to believe that.  But I clearly remember how good this offense was back then.  What changed and continues to not be corrected since then is the question.  To me, I think it's Doug's decision to allow his OC to have more control...

Maybe I'm wrong.  I hope I'm not.  Because if I'm wrong, then I guess we have to start all over again.  There will never be an O-Line that everyone is satisfied with, not in this league.  There will always be pressure on the QB.  It's the name of the game.  But the hope is that you have a HC and OC that can figure out how to get his players in the best position on most plays to get positive yardage.

---

I'm sorry - this is fantasy ^

That is not how it went down. You are conveniently forgetting the negative aspects of that offense. 

Does no one remember losing 5 straight games that included three games of horrible passing production? 
And the complaints about the dink and dunk boring play calls?

(09-17-2024, 04:14 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 04:01 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Putting a different human in Press Taylor's place to call Doug Pederson's plays in Doug Pederson's offense has got to be the half-est of half-measures I could think of to alter the course of our offense. 

It's called game flow and experience. Some guys have a better sense of this based on their experience. Some guys are lining up plays 3, 4 sequences in advance anticipating that they're going to strike gold on that 4th or 5th sequence.

They have intuition. They may see something the other guy doesn't. They may feel something is off and actually back off that play or alter something based on what they sense. Could be subtle. Could be massively monumental.

There's something to be said to that argument. I defended Press last year. A lot. I also haven't outright said he's the issue or that Doug needs to take over the playcalling like a fully fledged OC.

I get a sense that it's still relatively the same that it's been since 2022 responsibility wise and maybe just a little bit more has been put on PT's plate since 2023 so DP can focus on the totality of the team.

He's still very much involved offensively. It was made obvious by he and Trevor's interactions on the sideline in between timeouts and commercial timeouts.

It's no different than what Reid was doing with Bieniemy in KC before he split for Washington and they had their questionable rough patches as well with Mahomes and Bieniemy getting into spats.

It's a process. I have said this several times as well. This team is streaky. That's just the nature of it with Doug. They'll eventually get on a hot streak and keep it going and hopefully avoid growing cold again.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Caldrac, I respect your views.  You always discuss things with others in a respectful way.  I appreciate that.

With that said.  I continue to disagree with alot of folks regarding 2022 versus the rest of what we've watched with this offense in 2023 and this season.  I just don't see the same offense now like we had back in Doug's first year.  The offense in 2022 was so much more dynamic and explosive, not to mention unpredictable, compared to what we've seen last year and onto this season.

Maybe I'm wrong.  If I am, is there anything you could point out that could help me "see the light"?

---

(09-17-2024, 04:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 04:12 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I totally disagree.  This offense in 2022 looked like a real NFL offense.  Everyone that remembers 2022 remembers how great this offense looked.  Yeah, there were games where Trevor wet the bed...  The London game comes to mind...  But even that game, Trevor drove us down the field constantly.

I remember people, including myself, at awe with how few 3 and outs we had.  We moved the ball.  We had route concepts that rivaled KC's.  Our O-Line was suspect and people were worried, yes even back then, that Trevor was going to get killed behind that line.

But we kept defenses on their heels and we played great.  What's more, we would look bad in the 1st half, and then...  in the 2nd half WE MADE ADJUSTMENTS!

I'm not being revisionist when I call back to 2022.  But maybe 2022 was the outlier.  I don't want to believe that.  But I clearly remember how good this offense was back then.  What changed and continues to not be corrected since then is the question.  To me, I think it's Doug's decision to allow his OC to have more control...

Maybe I'm wrong.  I hope I'm not.  Because if I'm wrong, then I guess we have to start all over again.  There will never be an O-Line that everyone is satisfied with, not in this league.  There will always be pressure on the QB.  It's the name of the game.  But the hope is that you have a HC and OC that can figure out how to get his players in the best position on most plays to get positive yardage.

---

I'm sorry - this is fantasy ^

That is not how it went down. You are conveniently forgetting the negative aspects of that offense. 

Does no one remember losing 5 straight games that included three games of horrible passing production? 
And the complaints about the dink and dunk boring play calls?

The Philly game, the Denver game, were the 2 I remember being absolutely miserable.

And then, after the Denver game, everything changed.

It's not fantasy.  It happened. 

And even in the games we lost, there were glimpses of explosiveness.  But we continued to wet the bed in the red zone.  After the Denver game, we flipped that script.  

That happened.  It wasn't fantasy.

https://youtu.be/tOw4uD5J03I?si=fNM_ghZWkdA5oXN-

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https://youtu.be/-Tn2UOwUYdA?si=JwAF0xf7iQl3QdD6

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(09-17-2024, 04:30 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]https://youtu.be/tOw4uD5J03I?si=fNM_ghZWkdA5oXN-

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---

https://youtu.be/-Tn2UOwUYdA?si=JwAF0xf7iQl3QdD6

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It's interesting how many great plays were made in 2022 through the air with Trevor's arm and the play calling.  Where in the highlights in 2023 had so many plays were Trevor had to run the ball to get the highlight.

Not to mention how few real highlights were shown in 2023 that weren't in garbage time.  But yes, it's true that Trevor Lawrence is a great QB.

But, let me ask you this.

Can you explain why in 2022 we were ranked 9th in offensive scoring, and in 2023 we were ranked 15th?

Based on the highlights, Lawrence was still slinging.  But the offense still fell off considerably.  And, based on 2 games (I know it's still early) we are in the bottom of the league for scoring.

We're going backwards.

Those 2022, highlights, though... Good times...

(09-17-2024, 04:58 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 04:30 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]https://youtu.be/tOw4uD5J03I?si=fNM_ghZWkdA5oXN-

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---

https://youtu.be/-Tn2UOwUYdA?si=JwAF0xf7iQl3QdD6

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

It's interesting how many great plays were made in 2022 through the air with Trevor's arm and the play calling.  Where in the highlights in 2023 had so many plays were Trevor had to run the ball to get the highlight.

Not to mention how few real highlights were shown in 2023 that weren't in garbage time.  But yes, it's true that Trevor Lawrence is a great QB.

But, let me ask you this.

Can you explain why in 2022 we were ranked 9th in offensive scoring, and in 2023 we were ranked 15th?

Based on the highlights, Lawrence was still slinging.  But the offense still fell off considerably.  And, based on 2 games (I know it's still early) we are in the bottom of the league for scoring.

We're going backwards.

Those 2022, highlights, though... Good times...

2023 we saw more turnovers, more injuries to the WR room, tougher schedule as well. We ended up playing the #1 - #3 ranked defense three, four weeks in a row during the 2nd half of the season after Zay and Christian were both out and I believe Agnew was out at some point.

Lawrence had to also play through a bad knee, bad ankle, concussion and bad throwing shoulder throughout the year. The running game was worse and it ended up being a lot of high volume to Engram, Etienne and prayers for a PI on Ridley or tough catch from Ridley down the stretch.

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(09-17-2024, 05:25 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 04:58 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]It's interesting how many great plays were made in 2022 through the air with Trevor's arm and the play calling.  Where in the highlights in 2023 had so many plays were Trevor had to run the ball to get the highlight.

Not to mention how few real highlights were shown in 2023 that weren't in garbage time.  But yes, it's true that Trevor Lawrence is a great QB.

But, let me ask you this.

Can you explain why in 2022 we were ranked 9th in offensive scoring, and in 2023 we were ranked 15th?

Based on the highlights, Lawrence was still slinging.  But the offense still fell off considerably.  And, based on 2 games (I know it's still early) we are in the bottom of the league for scoring.

We're going backwards.

Those 2022, highlights, though... Good times...

2023 we saw more turnovers, more injuries to the WR room, tougher schedule as well. We ended up playing the #1 - #3 ranked defense three, four weeks in a row during the 2nd half of the season after Zay and Christian were both out and I believe Agnew was out at some point.

Lawrence had to also play through a bad knee, bad ankle, concussion and bad throwing shoulder throughout the year. The running game was worse and it ended up being a lot of high volume to Engram, Etienne and prayers for a PI on Ridley or tough catch from Ridley down the stretch.

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I totally get that...

I totally agree that the last half of the season was mired with injury.  But I remember saying during our 8-3 run that the offense looked off.  There were so many games where we just didn't do what we did in 2022.  

What's funny about the 2023 highlights you posted is how many plays in that video showed Ridley plays.  I think most of us realized, from watching game after game, that Ridley was not good.  But those highlights in 2023 made it seem like Ridley was a Pro-Bowler.

I appreciate the discussion.  I'm not saying you are wrong.  There are some points I agree with.  I just can't get over how much differently this team looked in 2022 compared to what we saw last year and so far this year.  And again, that's just my opinion.  I'm just saying what I think.  I don't think I'm any smarter than anyone else.  I'm just trying to defend my opinion.

(09-17-2024, 05:35 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 05:25 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]2023 we saw more turnovers, more injuries to the WR room, tougher schedule as well. We ended up playing the #1 - #3 ranked defense three, four weeks in a row during the 2nd half of the season after Zay and Christian were both out and I believe Agnew was out at some point.

Lawrence had to also play through a bad knee, bad ankle, concussion and bad throwing shoulder throughout the year. The running game was worse and it ended up being a lot of high volume to Engram, Etienne and prayers for a PI on Ridley or tough catch from Ridley down the stretch.

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I totally get that...

I totally agree that the last half of the season was mired with injury.  But I remember saying during our 8-3 run that the offense looked off.  There were so many games where we just didn't do what we did in 2022.  

What's funny about the 2023 highlights you posted is how many plays in that video showed Ridley plays.  I think most of us realized, from watching game after game, that Ridley was not good.  But those highlights in 2023 made it seem like Ridley was a Pro-Bowler.

I appreciate the discussion.  I'm not saying you are wrong.  There are some points I agree with.  I just can't get over how much differently this team looked in 2022 compared to what we saw last year and so far this year.  And again, that's just my opinion.  I'm just saying what I think.  I don't think I'm any smarter than anyone else.  I'm just trying to defend my opinion.

You're fine. I get it. This offense has been off since the loss to the Bengals and they're still working back from a really bad 10 game slump.

Lawrence entered half time against the Browns with just 16 yards passing. That was his career low. That was an eye opener.

There's clearly a disconnect between the players and the coaching staff, and, there's really no major excuse for it at this point.

I am, however, fully confident that this offense will eventually get it together and start clicking more in due time.

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(09-17-2024, 06:23 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 05:35 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I totally get that...

I totally agree that the last half of the season was mired with injury.  But I remember saying during our 8-3 run that the offense looked off.  There were so many games where we just didn't do what we did in 2022.  

What's funny about the 2023 highlights you posted is how many plays in that video showed Ridley plays.  I think most of us realized, from watching game after game, that Ridley was not good.  But those highlights in 2023 made it seem like Ridley was a Pro-Bowler.

I appreciate the discussion.  I'm not saying you are wrong.  There are some points I agree with.  I just can't get over how much differently this team looked in 2022 compared to what we saw last year and so far this year.  And again, that's just my opinion.  I'm just saying what I think.  I don't think I'm any smarter than anyone else.  I'm just trying to defend my opinion.

You're fine. I get it. This offense has been off since the loss to the Bengals and they're still working back from a really bad 10 game slump.

Lawrence entered half time against the Browns with just 16 yards passing. That was his career low. That was an eye opener.

There's clearly a disconnect between the players and the coaching staff, and, there's really no major excuse for it at this point.

I am, however, fully confident that this offense will eventually get it together and start clicking more in due time.

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I hope you're right, my friend.

I just want to watch a game where I don't already know what the Offense is going to do on 1st and 2nd down...  It would be nice to watch my team actually look like a real NFL offense again.

(09-17-2024, 06:46 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 06:23 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]You're fine. I get it. This offense has been off since the loss to the Bengals and they're still working back from a really bad 10 game slump.

Lawrence entered half time against the Browns with just 16 yards passing. That was his career low. That was an eye opener.

There's clearly a disconnect between the players and the coaching staff, and, there's really no major excuse for it at this point.

I am, however, fully confident that this offense will eventually get it together and start clicking more in due time.

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I hope you're right, my friend.

I just want to watch a game where I don't already know what the Offense is going to do on 1st and 2nd down...  It would be nice to watch my team actually look like a real NFL offense again.

I know I am right. No hope needed.

Might have to wait until October, but, it'll all click like it did in 2022 and 2023 and they'll be in a position by mid December to earn a play off spot.

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Start winning and a bet that disconnect is gone. Losing makes people say/ do a lot of interesting things.

(09-17-2024, 11:41 AM)TDOSS Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 09:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I never would have imagined that Doug Pederson would lose the plot like he apparently has.

I will always believe the #1 cause for that super bowl outside of Foles playing amazing and the defense playing exactly as well as they needed them was that  Howie at the time was addicted to giving vets a second chance, in 2017 every single vet he picked up worked out amazingly.  Brandon Brooks had his best season, Alshon Jeffery was great, Ajayi and Blount was a great duo, Chris Long, Torrey Smith, Patrick Robinson, Nigel Bradham, Nick Foles, Stefen Wisniewski, Timmy Jernigan  That’s literally 10 starters that Howie picked up either from other teams or FA that played in the SB. And all were good players.  So boom it worked, Howie went back to well in following years. It did not work at all.

I also question how much of the Eagles' offense's success was due to Frank Reich as offensive coordinator.  When the Jaguars were interviewing Pederson for the job, I pointed out the stat that Doug Pederson had an overall losing record as a head coach in Philadelphia when his offensive coordinator wasn't Frank Reich.  Their offense dropped from #4 to #20 in the year Reich left.

(09-17-2024, 07:19 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-17-2024, 11:41 AM)TDOSS Wrote: [ -> ]I will always believe the #1 cause for that super bowl outside of Foles playing amazing and the defense playing exactly as well as they needed them was that  Howie at the time was addicted to giving vets a second chance, in 2017 every single vet he picked up worked out amazingly.  Brandon Brooks had his best season, Alshon Jeffery was great, Ajayi and Blount was a great duo, Chris Long, Torrey Smith, Patrick Robinson, Nigel Bradham, Nick Foles, Stefen Wisniewski, Timmy Jernigan  That’s literally 10 starters that Howie picked up either from other teams or FA that played in the SB. And all were good players.  So boom it worked, Howie went back to well in following years. It did not work at all.

I also question how much of the Eagles' offense's success was due to Frank Reich as offensive coordinator.  When the Jaguars were interviewing Pederson for the job, I pointed out the stat that Doug Pederson had an overall losing record as a head coach in Philadelphia when his offensive coordinator wasn't Frank Reich.  Their offense dropped from #4 to #20 in the year Reich left.

Reich got a raw deal with the clots and especially Carolina. Surprised he's not coaching this year.

Would be one hell of a coaching staff in 2025 if Bill Belichick got a HC gig and managed to pull in Frank Reich as an OC and Mike Vrabel as a DC for a year or two.

Could see that happening with the Giants or Jets.

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