Quote: The following is an article that probably won't change your views but I think it's well worth sharing:
Readers Write: History supports Jews’ claim on Israel
http://www.theislandnow.com/opinions/rea...0bbd4.html
Who is Liz Berney? The author of that article, who is she? Is she a noted scholar?
My background on the Middle East comes from multiple college history courses and textbooks, including a course specifically on the Middle East, taught by a Jewish professor whose contention (backed up by facts) was the the modern Middle East would not be nearly as bad as it is today if not for western intervention starting with the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire, and that the greatest mistake the west, particularly the US, made was allowing Israel to be formed, to continue to exist, and to support it economically and militarily at the expense of Arabic nations in the region. Her contention, and she backed it up well, is that Israel should not exist, and if it didn't exist, the world would be a very different place.
That professor, btw, is Jewish.
So to answer your question, no, an article written by Liz Berney will not sway me in the least.
Quote:Who is Liz Berney? The author of that article, who is she? Is she a noted scholar?
My background on the Middle East comes from multiple college history courses and textbooks, including a course specifically on the Middle East, taught by a Jewish professor whose contention (backed up by facts) was the the modern Middle East would not be nearly as bad as it is today if not for western intervention starting with the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire, and that the greatest mistake the west, particularly the US, made was allowing Israel to be formed, to continue to exist, and to support it economically and militarily at the expense of Arabic nations in the region. Her contention, and she backed it up well, is that Israel should not exist, and if it didn't exist, the world would be a very different place.
That professor, btw, is Jewish.
So to answer your question, no, an article written by Liz Berney will not sway me in the least.
Apparently she is a blogger who wants to be a congresswoman when she grows up.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.lizberneyforcongress.com'>http://www.lizberneyforcongress.com</a>
Quote:He was also the leader of what we would today consider to be a band of terrorists.
Meh. so was Washington. The end goal of those efforts was not subjugation of the infidels.
Quote:Is the country exceptional or is it going down hill? You knuckleheads scream from the roof top about how whatever new liberal idea is destroying the country yet get red faced over someone saying America is not the bees knees anymore. Confusing at best.
We're so exceptional that even when the Leftists drag us the wrong way for seven years we're still far superior to every other country ever known to man.
Quote:We're so exceptional that even when the Leftists drag us the wrong way for seven years we're still far superior to every other country ever known to man.
So you are all lying and fear mongering about our nation's move to policies you all hate as being the end of the country. Not surprised but I get it.
Quote:Who is Liz Berney? The author of that article, who is she? Is she a noted scholar?
My background on the Middle East comes from multiple college history courses and textbooks, including a course specifically on the Middle East, taught by a Jewish professor whose contention (backed up by facts) was the the modern Middle East would not be nearly as bad as it is today if not for western intervention starting with the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire, and that the greatest mistake the west, particularly the US, made was allowing Israel to be formed, to continue to exist, and to support it economically and militarily at the expense of Arabic nations in the region. Her contention, and she backed it up well, is that Israel should not exist, and if it didn't exist, the world would be a very different place.
That professor, btw, is Jewish.
So to answer your question, no, an article written by Liz Berney will not sway me in the least.
Liz Berney ran for Congress in 2008 and 2010 against a long time incumbent left wing Jewish congressman named Gary Ackerman.. She's written many articles, which can be found on the Internet. Including on Israel. Her info on Obamacare is amongst the best I've seen. She's brilliant and is an excellent debater.
Regarding the article itself, if you can document anything that she mentioned isn't true, by all means go ahead.
I'm actually glad you mentioned the Jewish professor you learned from, as it illustrates another point. Tragically ( at least from my perspective ), there are many Jews that heavily criticize Israel from the left. Yet, despite this, they are in no danger in a physical sense from speaking out. On the other hand, if what you call ' Palestinians' speak out in favor of Israel and they aren't using deception, they are in great danger of being killed. Say what you want about Israel, the country provides free speech and rights that people in the other Middle East countries can't even dream about if they disagree.
Quote: Liz Berney ran for Congress in 2008 and 2010 against a long time incumbent left wing Jewish congressman named Gary Ackerman.. She's written many articles, which can be found on the Internet. Including on Israel. Her info on Obamacare is amongst the best I've seen. She's brilliant and is an excellent debater.
Regarding the article itself, if you can document anything that she mentioned isn't true, by all means go ahead.
I'm actually glad you mentioned the Jewish professor you learned from, as it illustrates another point. Tragically ( at least from my perspective ), there are many Jews that heavily criticize Israel from the left. Yet, despite this, they are in no danger in a physical sense from speaking out. On the other hand, if what you call ' Palestinians' speak out in favor of Israel and they aren't using deception, they are in great danger of being killed. Say what you want about Israel, the country provides free speech and rights that people in the other Middle East countries can't even dream about if they disagree.
I've personally been to Israel as well as other countries in the middle east, and this is true.
Quote:I've personally been to Israel as well as other countries in the middle east, and this is true.
One thing that I often say to those that criticize Israel from the left but look the other way in terms of what is going on in other Middle East countries is to try to live in other Middle East country for a couple of years.
Also, I wonder if CBS' Lara Logan's perception of Israel and the Middle East changed after the horrific attack on her in Egypt. :whistling:
Quote: One thing that I often say to those that criticize Israel from the left but look the other way in terms of what is going on in other Middle East countries is to try to live in other Middle East country for a couple of years.
Also, I wonder if CBS' Lara Logan's perception of Israel and the Middle East changed after the horrific attack on her in Egypt. :whistling:
This idea that people that criticize Israel from the left disregard the goings on in the middle east is disingenuous at best and simply not true. You can criticize both.
I wonder if the right wingers in opposition of lgbt rights in the US have their perception change after seeing this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...93593.html
:whistling:
Quote:Direction matters.
And thankfully you and your ilk can't stop the progress we are seeing towards a modern society.
Quote:And thankfully you and your ilk can't stop the progress we are seeing towards a modern society.
We'll see...
And again with "ilk", can't you come up with anything better?
Quote:This idea that people that criticize Israel from the left disregard the goings on in the middle east is disingenuous at best and simply not true. You can criticize both.
I wonder if the right wingers in opposition of lgbt rights in the US have their perception change after seeing this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...93593.html
:whistling:
Let me clarify my position. I meant that a large % of people that criticize Israel from the left look the other way regarding the rest of the Middle East. That's certainly not the case with all that criticize Israel from the left.
Quote: Let me clarify my position. I meant that a large % of people that criticize Israel from the left look the other way regarding the rest of the Middle East. That's certainly not the case with all that criticize Israel from the left.
I hardly look the other way. I recognize that a lot of Middle Eastern nations have, shall we say, questionable records on civil and human rights, and I'm not saying that we should go out and try to become bestest best buddies with Iran, because we're still at least a couple of generations away from even knowing if their culture will swing far enough in our direction to make that sort of thing even a pipe dream.
What I don't do is ignore the fact that Israel has committed its fair share of violence against the rest of the Middle East, both provoked and unprovoked, and their hiding behind the shield of the US has allowed them to get away with it. I refuse to pretend, as so many in the US insist upon doing, that one strong ally (bordering on a puppet at times) is worth more than having at least normalized, neutral relations with the rest of the Arab world.
Quote:Stop the redirection.
Analogies are not welcome here? That seems to be an ongoing trend on here as of late.
Quote:We'll see...
And again with "ilk", can't you come up with anything better?
People like you who think america is awesome and awful at the same. Is that better for you?
In addition I commented on his comment. Don't ignore half a post.
Quote:I hardly look the other way. I recognize that a lot of Middle Eastern nations have, shall we say, questionable records on civil and human rights, and I'm not saying that we should go out and try to become bestest best buddies with Iran, because we're still at least a couple of generations away from even knowing if their culture will swing far enough in our direction to make that sort of thing even a pipe dream.
What I don't do is ignore the fact that Israel has committed its fair share of violence against the rest of the Middle East, both provoked and unprovoked, and their hiding behind the shield of the US has allowed them to get away with it. I refuse to pretend, as so many in the US insist upon doing, that one strong ally (bordering on a puppet at times) is worth more than having at least normalized, neutral relations with the rest of the Arab world.
You are either with them or against them.
Quote: One thing that I often say to those that criticize Israel from the left but look the other way in terms of what is going on in other Middle East countries is to try to live in other Middle East country for a couple of years.
Also, I wonder if CBS' Lara Logan's perception of Israel and the Middle East changed after the horrific attack on her in Egypt. :whistling:
There are many on the right who ignore all the things that Israel does though. In fact you rarely hear about it on the "left-wing" media.
Many countries in the middle east have terrible human rights records. They execute Christians, Jews, Gays, and Atheists alike. Their record on women's rights is appalling. Their sponsorship of terrorism is disgusting. And the middle east is the best example of why I would never ever ever want a Theocracy.
Quote:Analogies are not welcome here? That seems to be an ongoing trend on here as of late.
Sure. But a common tactic often done by the left is to redirect the conversation when they feel that they have a losing position. This thread is about the middle east and specifically Iran. It has nothing to do with LGBT.