Quote:To the current president. The whole point of having two parties is to give the voters a choice. Since the 2014 elections, the Pubs have 1) passed the Corker bill weaseling around the Constitutional requirement of a 2/3 vote to enact a treaty with a foreign power, 2) Signed a budget that continued the Dem spending track. 3) Have been afraid to address the Planned Parenthood funding. 4) Have been afraid to address Obamacare, which a majority of the country opposes and which was so bad that Massachusetts elected a Republican to Ted Kennedy's seat.
The Pubs ran on a platform of opposing the Dem position on these items. The fact that they ignored the wishes of the citizens who voted them in based on these positions tells us all we need to know. There is only one party. The Pubs are merely pretending to be an opposition party.
We are no longer citizens. We are subjects.
I call shenanigans. The pubs did not hold 40+ votes to repeal obamacare? They did not shut down the government? They are not threatening to do it again over PP? What the actual huh? Where are you getting this from?
Obama Care is law thanks to budget reconciliation, it was implemented in its entirety and fully funded despite the government shutdown and PP won't loose a dime. Where was the presidential deference on behalf of Democrats when Bush wanted to have private accounts as part of social security. Don't even get me started on Trade promotion authority. I still have to eat dinner.
There have been a few show votes but the American people have voted consistently since 2010 to reign in the agenda of this president and no one in Washington has had the gonads to actually do anything to stop him.
Quote:All the left has left are straw man arguments.
This deal or war. That's rhetorical nonsense. That would be like an 8th grader getting every question wrong on his math homework and telling his teacher "would you rather i just didn't do it at all?" These were supposed to be the smartest people the world had ever seen and we got this mess? ridiculous.
We weren't the only people at the table. True, but we are the one's that bought the table. Our umbrella of protection and funding has allowed the proliferation of Europe as we know it. There is no question that we are the worlds superpower and when things go wrong you don't see Germany and France declaring blood and treasure for the proliferation of freedom. The idea that America doesn't have the influence not to get absolutely trounced the way that we did is so asinine it doesn't merit discussion. When you look at Cuba Berghdal etc. etc. you can see that this policy of capitulation engagement is what Obama wants. It's disingenuous to say otherwise.
31 pages and 150 billion dollars and i have still not seen one tangible verifiable thing that we got in these negotiations aside from a bunch of hot air from a state that's a proven liar. So much for the party of science.
As for the experts, Shovel ready jobs, 2500 less on your premiums, if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.... do i really have to keep going. I can't believe that people are still carrying water for this guy.
And just as an aside we are talking about roughly 150 billion dollars in frozen or heavily restricted Iranian assets frozen in the international banking system that is by and large underwritten by the US dollar.
Oh you mean rhetoric like we are giving them a bomb. We are giving them a path to the bomb. We are giving them 150 billion. Rhetorical nonsense like that? Is that what you meant?
You mad, everyone gets it. Still waiting for that alternative that actually works with the multi party deal. Really anything other than being full of rage and fear and pounding the table about america's dominance over the world.
Quote:Obama Care is law thanks to budget reconciliation, it was implemented in its entirety and fully funded despite the government shutdown and PP won't loose a dime. Where was the presidential deference on behalf of Democrats when Bush wanted to have private accounts as part of social security. Don't even get me started on Trade promotion authority. I still have to eat dinner.
There have been a few show votes but the American people have voted consistently since 2010 to reign in the agenda of this president and no one in Washington has had the gonads to actually do anything to stop him.
You guys are as butt hurt as your party leadership is over his two elections. It would be hilarious if it was not so sad.
Quote:If you [BAD WORD REMOVED] us, do we not bleed? If Kim Jong-Un proclaims North Korea's superiority and shouts for death to America, do we not laugh our butts off?
No, we station the US Army on the 38th Parallel, just like we have for 60 years.
Quote:Oh you mean rhetoric like we are giving them a bomb. We are giving them a path to the bomb. We are giving them 150 billion. Rhetorical nonsense like that? Is that what you meant?
Rhetoric generally lacks meaningful content. What you are describing here is called "fact" and "truth", though I can understand why you are unfamiliar with the concepts. :thumbsup:
Quote:If you [BAD WORD REMOVED] us, do we not bleed? If Kim Jong-Un proclaims North Korea's superiority and shouts for death to America, do we not laugh our butts off?
That's really not the point. Look at the history of the region and the country itself. Kim Jong Ill was trying to be "relevant" on the world stage, and the focus was on a nuclear weapon. Now that the have said nuke, they are of course still irrelevant (for the most part) until they hit Japan, South Korea or even China with one (that danger is actually there). So now they are actively working on a delivery system that can actually reach the U.S.. That is a direct result of the deal the President Clinton made with them.
Imagine what happens in a few short years if Iran gets the same capability (they do work closely with NK by the way).
Quote:Rhetoric generally lacks meaningful content. What you are describing here is called "fact" and "truth", though I can understand why you are unfamiliar with the concepts. :thumbsup:
Lies are what you just typed. I can understand how you are so used to presenting lies as facts. It's the best way to spread fear and hate. Unless of course you have some evidence or citation of those
facts lies. I always wondered who the fear and hate mongering worked on these days with such easy access to information. Thanks for showing up as the example.
Quote:Lies are what you just typed. I can understand how you are so used to presenting lies as facts. It's the best way to spread fear and hate. Unless of course you have some evidence or citation of those facts lies. I always wondered who the fear and hate mongering worked on these days with such easy access to information. Thanks for showing up as the example.
Oooooo, you used the libby dog whistles! Yes, yes...Fear and Hate!!!!! OOGA BOOGA!!!!!!!
weat:
Quote:Oooooo, you used the libby dog whistles! Yes, yes...Fear and Hate!!!!! OOGA BOOGA!!!!!!!
weat:
I'm glad you finally understand it
Quote:Oh you mean rhetoric like we are giving them a bomb. We are giving them a path to the bomb. We are giving them 150 billion. Rhetorical nonsense like that? Is that what you meant?
You mad, everyone gets it. Still waiting for that alternative that actually works with the multi party deal. Really anything other than being full of rage and fear and pounding the table about america's dominance over the world.
Quote:You guys are as butt hurt as your party leadership is over his two elections. It would be hilarious if it was not so sad.
Your mature well thought out responses just illustrate how rock solid the underpinnings this agreement are. We're still waiting for the real world tangible benefits of this agreement.
The sad part is that the Iranians aren't even hiding anything. Their supreme leader is circulating a book called "Palestine" to assert that he is the true head of Jihad and the reclamation of Jerusalem. The main theme of the book is the destruction of Israel and the great Satan. Give you ten bucks if you can guess who the great satan is. They are already suppressing details about how inspections will be conducted by threatening the physical well being of the IAEA officials. They are actively using the money we have unleashed to buy weapons and fought tooth and nail to ensure that they could buy all the conventional weapons and ICBM's their heart desires. That's our new found partner in the Middle east? This is who we are trusting?
Quote:Your mature well thought out responses just illustrate how rock solid the underpinnings this agreement are. We're still waiting for the real world tangible benefits of this agreement.
It can be explained to you over and over against but your clear bias and prejudice blinds you to it. We can't make you understand it.
We are still waiting for the evidence of Obama giving them a bomb or how this leads to war as you hawks keep saying as if it's proven fact.
Quote:The sad part is that the Iranians aren't even hiding anything. Their supreme leader is circulating a book called "Palestine" to assert that he is the true head of Jihad and the reclamation of Jerusalem. The main theme of the book is the destruction of Israel and the great Satan. Give you ten bucks if you can guess who the great satan is. They are already suppressing details about how inspections will be conducted by threatening the physical well being of the IAEA officials. They are actively using the money we have unleashed to buy weapons and fought tooth and nail to ensure that they could buy all the conventional weapons and ICBM's their heart desires. That's our new found partner in the Middle east? This is who we are trusting?
What's it like to see boogey men everywhere?
Quote:What's it like to see boogey men everywhere?
I don't know, what's it like to live in a world where people tell you they want to kill you and you can't bring yourself to believe them?
Quote:I don't know, what's it like to live in a world where people tell you they want to kill you and you can't bring yourself to believe them?
You see them also? I am sorry that must be awful.
There are dangerous people abroad and there are dangerous people here. If you chose to live in fear of the people that hate you then you let them win.
I will say this though. The hardliners are very vocal so I understand people's trepidation.What I don't understand is labeling the entire country (it's people) they you do their leadership or the vocal hardliners. It's would be like the rest of the world labeling the entire US as if we were all the vocal hardliners on the right. It's silly, foolhardy and non productive, IMO.
Quote:You see them also? I am sorry that must be awful.
There are dangerous people abroad and there are dangerous people here. If you chose to live in fear of the people that hate you then you let them win.
No, you don't have to "Live in fear" but you don't give them a path to weapons of mass destruction either.
"But we aren't doing that!"
They sure as hell think we are.
"But we just laugh at them"
So did Chamberlain.
"But we're so much more evolved now."
Human nature doesn't change.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
If I'm wrong then we have a more peaceful world, but no real change from today. If you're wrong the deaths of millions will be on our own stupid leader's hands.
I prefer the status quo thanks.
Quote:No, you don't have to "Live in fear" but you don't give them a path to weapons of mass destruction either.
"But we aren't doing that!"
They sure as hell think we are.
"But we just laugh at them"
So did Chamberlain.
"But we're so much more evolved now."
Human nature doesn't change.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
If I'm wrong then we have a more peaceful world, but no real change from today. If you're wrong the deaths of millions will be on our own stupid leader's hands.
I prefer the status quo thanks.
Yes, yes doomsday. That's obviously the case here. It can only be apocalypse in lieu of total capitulation from another nation.
I prefer peace to carpet bombing. You want a perfect deal. I am aware that there is no such thing.
If I am wrong the warmongers will get the war they say they don't want but act like they do. If I am right there will be reasonable peace. I'll take the chance at peace versus what a lot of people perceive as certain war in lieu of a deal.