Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(02-21-2020, 11:14 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-21-2020, 11:02 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]So with Russia helping Sanders, he has to drop out right? Maybe also be arrested?

Can't stop Russia from liking who they like. Now, is there any reason to believe Sanders is working with Russia? Did he hire a campaign manager who owes debts to any Russian oligarchs? Or a security advisor who likes to attend banquets with Putin? Or a foreign relations advisor that accepted a medal from Putin? Anything like that? No?  Probably no need to worry, then.

Walter Russell Meade nailed it:

Quote:If Trump were the Manchurian candidate that people keep wanting to believe that he is, here are some of the things he’d be doing:

Limiting fracking as much as he possibly could
Blocking oil and gas pipelines
Opening negotiations for major nuclear arms reductions
Cutting U.S. military spending
Trying to tamp down tensions with Russia’s ally Iran.

(02-22-2020, 12:01 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-21-2020, 11:14 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Can't stop Russia from liking who they like. Now, is there any reason to believe Sanders is working with Russia? Did he hire a campaign manager who owes debts to any Russian oligarchs? Or a security advisor who likes to attend banquets with Putin? Or a foreign relations advisor that accepted a medal from Putin? Anything like that? No?  Probably no need to worry, then.

Walter Russell Meade nailed it:

Quote:If Trump were the Manchurian candidate that people keep wanting to believe that he is, here are some of the things he’d be doing:

Limiting fracking as much as he possibly could
Blocking oil and gas pipelines
Opening negotiations for major nuclear arms reductions
Cutting U.S. military spending
Trying to tamp down tensions with Russia’s ally Iran.

Russia's national interest is not necessarily the same thing as Putin's interest.
It might not be in Russia's national interest to get into another arms race with the US, but some of Putin's oligarch allies could stand to make some serious rubles off of it.
And the energy market is more complicated than you might think.
If China and Japan feel like they shouldn't buy Iranian oil, they buy Russian oil instead as an example.
With fracking, American natural gas still hasn't made a dent in Russia's sales. Transporting natural gas by boat does not work as well as pipelines, and even if they wanted to boycott Russian gas, Europe would have an easier time getting LNG from Qatar rather than us.

(02-22-2020, 09:05 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-22-2020, 12:01 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]Walter Russell Meade nailed it:

Russia's national interest is not necessarily the same thing as Putin's interest.
If China and Japan feel like they shouldn't buy Iranian oil, they buy Russian oil instead as an example.

Nobody presents their opinion as fact quite like you Mike.

You could find an excuse for Hitlers behavior if a Republican challenged you.

(02-22-2020, 09:09 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-22-2020, 09:05 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Russia's national interest is not necessarily the same thing as Putin's interest.
If China and Japan feel like they shouldn't buy Iranian oil, they buy Russian oil instead as an example.

Nobody presents their opinion as fact quite like you Mike.

You could find an excuse for Hitlers behavior if a Republican challenged you.

We were talking about Bernie and Trump and Putin.  They're all much more interesting than talking about me.

(02-22-2020, 09:05 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-22-2020, 12:01 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]Walter Russell Meade nailed it:

Russia's national interest is not necessarily the same thing as Putin's interest.
It might not be in Russia's national interest to get into another arms race with the US, but some of Putin's oligarch allies could stand to make some serious rubles off of it.
And the energy market is more complicated than you might think.
If China and Japan feel like they shouldn't buy Iranian oil, they buy Russian oil instead as an example.
With fracking, American natural gas still hasn't made a dent in Russia's sales. Transporting natural gas by boat does not work as well as pipelines, and even if they wanted to boycott Russian gas, Europe would have an easier time getting LNG from Qatar rather than us.

You are really stretching here. While not everything Putin does wasn't in Russia best interest, they all seemed so at the time. Can you give me a solid example of a Putin policy that was clearly against Russia's interest at the time the decision was made?

Putin wants to destabilize the Western democracies.   That's why when the NFL players were kneeling for the national anthem, the Russians were using social media to support both sides.  Both sides!  What they want is polarization.  That's why they're supporting both Trump and Sanders, the two most polarizing candidates.  The Russians also used fake social media accounts to support Brexit.  

Putin is just being his KGB self.  Playing a long game.  Not directly confronting the western democracies, but undermining them.   He thinks he can undermine Nato, the EU, and even the USA.   

He wants to bring back the old Soviet Union, and he think's it will be a lot easier to do that if the West is weakened.

(02-22-2020, 11:34 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Putin wants to destabilize the Western democracies.   That's why when the NFL players were kneeling for the national anthem, the Russians were using social media to support both sides.  Both sides!  What they want is polarization.  That's why they're supporting both Trump and Sanders, the two most polarizing candidates.  The Russians also used fake social media accounts to support Brexit.  

Putin is just being his KGB self.  Playing a long game.  Not directly confronting the western democracies, but undermining them.   He thinks he can undermine Nato, the EU, and even the USA.   

He wants to bring back the old Soviet Union, and he think's it will be a lot easier to do that if the West is weakened.

Exactly right.

(02-22-2020, 11:23 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-22-2020, 09:05 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Russia's national interest is not necessarily the same thing as Putin's interest.
It might not be in Russia's national interest to get into another arms race with the US, but some of Putin's oligarch allies could stand to make some serious rubles off of it.
And the energy market is more complicated than you might think.
If China and Japan feel like they shouldn't buy Iranian oil, they buy Russian oil instead as an example.
With fracking, American natural gas still hasn't made a dent in Russia's sales. Transporting natural gas by boat does not work as well as pipelines, and even if they wanted to boycott Russian gas, Europe would have an easier time getting LNG from Qatar rather than us.

You are really stretching here. While not everything Putin does wasn't in Russia best interest, they all seemed so at the time. Can you give me a solid example of a Putin policy that was clearly against Russia's interest at the time the decision was made?

The entire Putin project is against Russia's national interest. 
In American capitalism, the profit gets reinvested into new business ventures that could potentially employ more people and increase convenience for everybody.
In Russian kleptocracy, the profit disappears into ether.  Putin makes sure his government keeps looking the other way, not trying to tax or even acknowledge most of it before it leaves the country for good.

https://qz.com/1330955/russias-missing-wealth/

You guys are not giving Mikesez enough credit. This is the one area I trust him. If anyone knows how these bots play both sides, it's this troll.

Bernie wins Nevada.

https://youtu.be/5DTbashsKic

Now the democrats are blaming Trump for the Russian interference and saying Trump wants to face Sanders so Russia is helping

Bernie dominating the dems against their will is beautiful to see

(02-22-2020, 08:16 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]Now the democrats are blaming Trump for the Russian interference and saying Trump wants to face Sanders so Russia is helping

I found it a little odd that we only learned yesterday that Bernie was briefed a month ago about the Russians working on his behalf.

Won't be surprised if Bernie has another "heart attack" between now and August.

(02-22-2020, 09:03 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-22-2020, 08:16 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]Now the democrats are blaming Trump for the Russian interference and saying Trump wants to face Sanders so Russia is helping

I found it a little odd that we only learned yesterday that Bernie was briefed a month ago about the Russians working on his behalf.

Surely you can't believe the timing of the release is politically motivated.....

(02-22-2020, 09:04 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Won't be surprised if Bernie has another "heart attack" between now and August.

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(02-22-2020, 09:08 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-22-2020, 09:03 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I found it a little odd that we only learned yesterday that Bernie was briefed a month ago about the Russians working on his behalf.

Surely you can't believe the timing of the release is politically motivated.....

Brian Williams opened his show with the breaking news that Americans are stupid because they didn't believe this week's anonymous reports of Trump/Russia collusion.

(02-22-2020, 10:11 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]Brian Williams opened his show with the breaking news that Americans are stupid because they didn't believe this week's anonymous reports of Trump/Russia collusion.

Lyin' Brian? The one who squandered a plum, high paying, nationally recognized job to now working night shift at the least watched and least credible network on TV? I wouldn't worry, you and about four other people saw that opening.

It is going to get really interesting when the media needs to make that decision to get behind Sanders as the Democrat nominee. They literally made the bed they will have to sleep in and it is hilarious to watch.

(02-22-2020, 10:20 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]It is going to get really interesting when the media needs to make that decision to get behind Sanders as the Democrat nominee. They literally made the bed they will have to sleep in and it is hilarious to watch.

The mask is gonna come off on a lot of liberals when they decide to vote for Trump over Bernie