(12-29-2019, 10:49 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2019, 10:33 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, that stupid 3rd rounder who has already given like a 1000% return on our investment in him. Why didn't he simply accept the offer that Fidel Coughlin offered him while his peers that he has performed just as well as (if not better) were being given actual fair market value. So dumb 3rd rounder.
Anyway, let's keep screwing him over simply because we can! Yay billionaires in luxury suites!
There are rules in place that you have to abide by. This isn't about what is fair, it is where you are at within the rules. Yan had 0 leverage and the Jags still offered him a deal earlier than needed. They would pay him $17 million more than they needed to in order to get him for 2-3 years.
Fair is paying for performance each year or yearly contracts, but you don't see any player signing up for those.
He thinks he is the top DE, but it doesn't matter what he thinks. The Jags control him for this season and next year if they wish. There is no way around that and he dan only sit at home and not get paid anything. It's not a free market, there is a salary cap and the Jags are using the rules.
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It's easy to say when it's not his money
(12-29-2019, 10:47 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2019, 10:42 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]You don't just give the guy who has been criminally underpaid relative to what he has given you thus far a single, well below market value offer...and then shut off negotiations when he doesn't take it right away.
Sorry, I guess we just have different philosophies. I actually like our players (the legitimately good ones at least) and would like to see them properly rewarded for what they have contributed to the team. You can continue to root for the billionaires and dictators like Fidel Coughlin.
19 mil a year and the 4th highest DE in the league is criminally underpaid? Lmao. I feel so sorry for these rich players being that they are criminally underpaid lol
This has been explained to you by at least a dozen different people several dozen times. At first I thought it was you legitimately struggling to understand how contracts work, but I think it has been explained well enough from every angle that there is no other option than you being willfully obtuse.
So I guess I'll leave you here. Enjoy eating at the childrens table.
(12-29-2019, 10:53 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It's easy to say when it's not his money
He is taking a stand on principle but he can't win when there are rules in place. Sure TC should have continued negotiating, but it doesn't sound like he is ever going to get paid what he thinks he deserves. You can hate the Jags for under paying you, but you can still do it while collecting $19 million from them. Then you also have the power after that and could holdout this upcoming season. You have to play within the rules, you can't fight the rules of the CBA and win.
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(12-29-2019, 10:56 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2019, 10:47 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]19 mil a year and the 4th highest DE in the league is criminally underpaid? Lmao. I feel so sorry for these rich players being that they are criminally underpaid lol
This has been explained to you by at least a dozen different people several dozen times. At first I thought it was you legitimately struggling to understand how contracts work, but I think it has been explained well enough from every angle that there is no other option than you being willfully obtuse.
So I guess I'll leave you here. Enjoy eating at the childrens table.
I understand everything perfectly. He wanted more years, didnt get the offer. Its still 19 mill lost, if he sits on the franchise tag its almost another 20 mil lost. I want Yan here but its not very smart losing out on all those millions.
(12-29-2019, 11:01 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2019, 10:53 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It's easy to say when it's not his money
He is taking a stand on principle but he can't win when there are rules in place. Sure TC should have continued negotiating, but it doesn't sound like he is ever going to get paid what he thinks he deserves. You can hate the Jags for under paying you, but you can still do it while collecting $19 million from them. Then you also have the power after that and could holdout this upcoming season. You have to play within the rules, you can't fight the rules of the CBA and win.
I am saying treat our players like they are human beings that we want to keep around for a long time (at least the ones that we do). Us treating our players within the rules but also like garbage is a huge reason why we don't have Ramsey, Arob, Telvin, and have Yan on the verge. The answer is not to say "here is our offer that we know is considerably worse for you than the deals your peers just signed, but we have all of the power so if you don't take it then you're missing out on millions and then we'll do it again next time."
We aren't a legacy franchise in a huge market that has players lining up to want to play for. We are one of the least successful franchises in one of the least attractive markets in the league. We have to go above and beyond to keep our stars happy, not "treat them within the rules".
(12-29-2019, 10:49 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2019, 10:33 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, that stupid 3rd rounder who has already given like a 1000% return on our investment in him. Why didn't he simply accept the offer that Fidel Coughlin offered him while his peers that he has performed just as well as (if not better) were being given actual fair market value. So dumb 3rd rounder.
Anyway, let's keep screwing him over simply because we can! Yay billionaires in luxury suites!
There are rules in place that you have to abide by. This isn't about what is fair, it is where you are at within the rules. Yan had 0 leverage and the Jags still offered him a deal earlier than needed. They would pay him $17 million more than they needed to in order to get him for 2-3 years.
Fair is paying for performance each year or yearly contracts, but you don't see any player signing up for those.
He thinks he is the top DE, but it doesn't matter what he thinks. The Jags control him for this season and next year if they wish. There is no way around that and he dan only sit at home and not get paid anything. It's not a free market, there is a salary cap and the Jags are using the rules.
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Its funny because I heard the same very thing with Jalen Ramsey's situation - and look where that's gotten us...
We can't screw this up with Yannick because we, or should I say 'ole Tommy Cough Cough, has already blessed us with his decisions.
(12-29-2019, 11:42 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2019, 10:49 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]There are rules in place that you have to abide by. This isn't about what is fair, it is where you are at within the rules. Yan had 0 leverage and the Jags still offered him a deal earlier than needed. They would pay him $17 million more than they needed to in order to get him for 2-3 years.
Fair is paying for performance each year or yearly contracts, but you don't see any player signing up for those.
He thinks he is the top DE, but it doesn't matter what he thinks. The Jags control him for this season and next year if they wish. There is no way around that and he dan only sit at home and not get paid anything. It's not a free market, there is a salary cap and the Jags are using the rules.
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Its funny because I heard the same very thing with Jalen Ramsey's situation - and look where that's gotten us...
We can't screw this up with Yannick because we, or should I say 'ole Tommy Cough Cough, has already blessed us with his decisions.
It got us 2 first round picks for a player who is probably never going to live up to his athletic potential. Jags FTW.
(12-29-2019, 11:47 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2019, 11:42 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]Its funny because I heard the same very thing with Jalen Ramsey's situation - and look where that's gotten us...
We can't screw this up with Yannick because we, or should I say 'ole Tommy Cough Cough, has already blessed us with his decisions.
It got us 2 first round picks for a player who is probably never going to live up to his athletic potential. Jags FTW.
This, that was our biggest win this year
(12-29-2019, 11:47 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2019, 11:42 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]Its funny because I heard the same very thing with Jalen Ramsey's situation - and look where that's gotten us...
We can't screw this up with Yannick because we, or should I say 'ole Tommy Cough Cough, has already blessed us with his decisions.
It got us 2 first round picks for a player who is probably never going to live up to his athletic potential. Jags FTW.
Yeah, I think they did the right thing with Ramsey.
The Rams probably regret making that move.
After the crapstorm settled, yes we made the right decision - and got lucky receiving what we did for Ramsey.
But lets not confuse anything here, Ramsey is a transcendent player and we lost out on that ultimately (sad the way things transpired and how both parties involved lead to the spiraling downfall).
Yannick is not that type of talent but he is absolutely great at what he does - and like one of the previous posters mentioned, Jacksonville is not some hotbed destination for free agents. So when we actually do possess such talented players, we NEED to retain them.
Does anybody remember Paul Spicer cashing in on his best year at 33 years old? I think he had 7.5 sacks that year too. I forgot the numbers to his deal though.
Ngokuoe has the 2nd most sacks in franchise history with 37.5, and they strike a deal. Smh
He needs 17.5 sacks to be number 1, and he’s still on his rookie deal. We have something with this player...
I get the feeling he doesn’t want to be here anymore. The last player on this team asking to show him the money didn’t really want to be here either. I think he shops and looks for that golden goose contract.
(12-30-2019, 12:40 AM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ]I get the feeling he doesn’t want to be here anymore. The last player on this team asking to show him the money didn’t really want to be here either. I think he shops and looks for that golden goose contract.
I absolutely believe he doesn't want to be here.
I pointed the same thing out with Fournette too earlier in the season - but his situation and value is nowhere near important as Yannick's.
We need Yannick and unfortunately this organization/TC dropped the ball with him earlier in the season - and I assume Yan took it as a challenge to prove them wrong like the underdog that he was coming out of Maryland.
I think now he wants out and if we franchise tag him, I firmly believe things will sour immensely and probably end up like Jalen's situation.
Lets hope it doesn't get to that point or that its not too late.
(12-30-2019, 12:56 AM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 12:40 AM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ]I get the feeling he doesn’t want to be here anymore. The last player on this team asking to show him the money didn’t really want to be here either. I think he shops and looks for that golden goose contract.
I absolutely believe he doesn't want to be here.
I pointed the same thing out with Fournette too earlier in the season - but his situation and value is nowhere near important as Yannick's.
We need Yannick and unfortunately this organization/TC dropped the ball with him earlier in the season - and I assume Yan took it as a challenge to prove them wrong like the underdog that he was coming out of Maryland.
I think now he wants out and if we franchise tag him, I firmly believe things will sour immensely and probably end up like Jalen's situation.
Lets hope it doesn't get to that point or that its not too late.
I'd take two 1s for him.
(12-30-2019, 01:00 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 12:56 AM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]I absolutely believe he doesn't want to be here.
I pointed the same thing out with Fournette too earlier in the season - but his situation and value is nowhere near important as Yannick's.
We need Yannick and unfortunately this organization/TC dropped the ball with him earlier in the season - and I assume Yan took it as a challenge to prove them wrong like the underdog that he was coming out of Maryland.
I think now he wants out and if we franchise tag him, I firmly believe things will sour immensely and probably end up like Jalen's situation.
Lets hope it doesn't get to that point or that its not too late.
I'd take two 1s for him.
Same but we all know thats not happening.
Ramsey is arguably the best at his position and has been since he entered the league. And as much as I love Yan, he is nowhere near that type of talent at DE.
But if some team is stupid enough to offer something like that, then hell yes I would take it in a heartbeat.
If you don't think Yan is worth money, you haven't watched him play. That play where he caused the fumble that led to thre scoop and the score showed you all you need to know about him as a person and a football player.
(12-30-2019, 01:19 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]If you don't think Yan is worth money, you haven't watched him play. That play where he caused the fumble that led to thre scoop and the score showed you all you need to know about him as a person and a football player.
I think the situation we are in is very similar to Ramsey bud. Even if we offer him the money, he may just walk. The tweet that he was on his last lap and the response from Ramsey. I’m betting those two are close and share very similar sentiments.
(12-30-2019, 01:00 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 12:56 AM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]I absolutely believe he doesn't want to be here.
I pointed the same thing out with Fournette too earlier in the season - but his situation and value is nowhere near important as Yannick's.
We need Yannick and unfortunately this organization/TC dropped the ball with him earlier in the season - and I assume Yan took it as a challenge to prove them wrong like the underdog that he was coming out of Maryland.
I think now he wants out and if we franchise tag him, I firmly believe things will sour immensely and probably end up like Jalen's situation.
Lets hope it doesn't get to that point or that its not too late.
I'd take two 1s for him.
Only for us to draft Derrick Harvey and Quiton Groves.
I think we should keep our best players. Especially the young ones.
(12-30-2019, 12:40 AM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ]I get the feeling he doesn’t want to be here anymore. The last player on this team asking to show him the money didn’t really want to be here either. I think he shops and looks for that golden goose contract.
Something tells me he might pull an Arob and go somehwere else for less. I might be tempted to transition tag Yan. I don't think he is worthy of Franchise tag but he is definately that next teir down of guys who are great secondarys that you still need.
The guy we are gonna need to pay is Allen. He is a straight up beast. And if I am picking between the two I would not overpay Yan and miss out on Allen, who we will pay in 2 years if he keeps this up.
(12-30-2019, 08:23 AM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 12:40 AM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ]I get the feeling he doesn’t want to be here anymore. The last player on this team asking to show him the money didn’t really want to be here either. I think he shops and looks for that golden goose contract.
Something tells me he might pull an Arob and go somehwere else for less. I might be tempted to transition tag Yan. I don't think he is worthy of Franchise tag but he is definately that next teir down of guys who are great secondarys that you still need.
The guy we are gonna need to pay is Allen. He is a straight up beast. And if I am picking between the two I would not overpay Yan and miss out on Allen, who we will pay in 2 years if he keeps this up.
That's probably why Tom offered him a nice hefty 3 year deal