(08-16-2023, 06:59 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2023, 09:27 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. That was nothing compared to what might come.
I've been saying this for some time yet you guys have acted like I was wrong. Glad to see you're finally woke to reality.
But you draw the wrong conclusion.
Political violence only becomes likely when a large number of people percieve injustice or illegitimacy.
Your conclusion is we should smash these people if we think they are leftists, and join them if we think they are rightists.
My conclusion is we should work to make the government more just and legitimate in a way that most people will see as transparent, and fair, and favoring neither right nor left.
You want more violence.
I want less.
It seems exceedingly unlikely that the GA prosecution and trial wraps before November 2024. Fani Willis will have to roll straight 6's in terms of cooperation of named conspirators and expedience demanded by the judge.
But it's not going to go away either. Developments in the GA prosecution will be discussed throughout the election cycle.
(08-16-2023, 08:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Whether or not you think he should be charged or convicted, I think you Trump supporters should read the indictments, and if the facts alleged are true, why in the world would you think that guy should be President of the United States?
Are there not at least a dozen other Republicans who have the same policies, but who have not committed the wide variety of crimes, and do not have the same deep character flaws, as Donald Trump?
For gosh sakes, this is not an irreplaceable person.
MOST of these indictments assume intent. You agree with their assumptions, so you can't see how specious they are. This is weaponized "justice." At every turn, you are seeing democrats file charges to keep Trump from being able to run against Biden.
You read the indictments. Congratulations. Do you understand them? Do you know how hard it is to prove intent?
These DAs aren't starting with proof. You know that. That's why they are charging Trump's lawyers as co-conspirators. You really think it's a good idea to charge people for giving legal advice? No. They are charging them hoping they will flip on Trump and give them the evidence they don't have. This is [BLEEP] up on many different levels.
For all the [BLEEP] you guys spout about protecting our system, you sure don't mind watching it be abused by those who are recklessly wielding its power.
And, again, to your Trump specific question, you miss the point. Most people don't like Trump. Don't get me wrong... he has rabid followers. Most people have grown frustrated with the establishment. These charges only reinforce the notion that the government is overstepping its bounds, which reinforces the view that it needs to be fought back. Watching Trump fight the powers that be is what draws people to Trump in the first place.
(08-16-2023, 09:34 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 08:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Whether or not you think he should be charged or convicted, I think you Trump supporters should read the indictments, and if the facts alleged are true, why in the world would you think that guy should be President of the United States?
Are there not at least a dozen other Republicans who have the same policies, but who have not committed the wide variety of crimes, and do not have the same deep character flaws, as Donald Trump?
For gosh sakes, this is not an irreplaceable person.
MOST of these indictments assume intent. You agree with their assumptions, so you can't see how specious they are. This is weaponized "justice." At every turn, you are seeing democrats file charges to keep Trump from being able to run against Biden.
You read the indictments. Congratulations. Do you understand them? Do you know how hard it is to prove intent?
These DAs aren't starting with proof. You know that. That's why they are charging Trump's lawyers as co-conspirators. You really think it's a good idea to charge people for giving legal advice? No. They are charging them hoping they will flip on Trump and give them the evidence they don't have. This is [BLEEP] up on many different levels.
For all the [BLEEP] you guys spout about protecting our system, you sure don't mind watching it be abused by those who are recklessly wielding its power.
And, again, to your Trump specific question, you miss the point. Most people don't like Trump. Don't get me wrong... he has rabid followers. Most people have grown frustrated with the establishment. These charges only reinforce the notion that the government is overstepping its bounds, which reinforces the view that it needs to be fought back. Watching Trump fight the powers that be is what draws people to Trump in the first place.
That's what helped reel my vote in..
(08-16-2023, 09:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 06:59 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I've been saying this for some time yet you guys have acted like I was wrong. Glad to see you're finally woke to reality.
But you draw the wrong conclusion.
Political violence only becomes likely when a large number of people percieve injustice or illegitimacy.
Your conclusion is we should smash these people if we think they are leftists, and join them if we think they are rightists.
My conclusion is we should work to make the government more just and legitimate in a way that most people will see as transparent, and fair, and favoring neither right nor left.
You want more violence.
I want less.
It seems exceedingly unlikely that the GA prosecution and trial wraps before November 2024. Fani Willis will have to roll straight 6's in terms of cooperation of named conspirators and expedience demanded by the judge.
But it's not going to go away either.
No, you drew your own conclusion about what I'm saying, simply playing your usual "Both sides are bad but conservatives are worse" stuff that is laughable on its face.
(08-16-2023, 09:34 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 08:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Whether or not you think he should be charged or convicted, I think you Trump supporters should read the indictments, and if the facts alleged are true, why in the world would you think that guy should be President of the United States?
Are there not at least a dozen other Republicans who have the same policies, but who have not committed the wide variety of crimes, and do not have the same deep character flaws, as Donald Trump?
For gosh sakes, this is not an irreplaceable person.
MOST of these indictments assume intent. You agree with their assumptions, so you can't see how specious they are. This is weaponized "justice." At every turn, you are seeing democrats file charges to keep Trump from being able to run against Biden.
You read the indictments. Congratulations. Do you understand them? Do you know how hard it is to prove intent?
These DAs aren't starting with proof. You know that. That's why they are charging Trump's lawyers as co-conspirators. You really think it's a good idea to charge people for giving legal advice? No. They are charging them hoping they will flip on Trump and give them the evidence they don't have. This is [BLEEP] up on many different levels.
For all the [BLEEP] you guys spout about protecting our system, you sure don't mind watching it be abused by those who are recklessly wielding its power.
And, again, to your Trump specific question, you miss the point. Most people don't like Trump. Don't get me wrong... he has rabid followers. Most people have grown frustrated with the establishment. These charges only reinforce the notion that the government is overstepping its bounds, which reinforces the view that it needs to be fought back. Watching Trump fight the powers that be is what draws people to Trump in the first place.
So much truth here. Even though I won't vote for him I think what he's doing on this front is important. He's not even very good at anything other than making the Establishment mad, but that's enough right now to open at least some people's eyes to just how overbearing our government has become and how badly we need to knock it down to it's rightful, miniscule place in our lives.
(08-16-2023, 09:34 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 08:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Whether or not you think he should be charged or convicted, I think you Trump supporters should read the indictments, and if the facts alleged are true, why in the world would you think that guy should be President of the United States?
Are there not at least a dozen other Republicans who have the same policies, but who have not committed the wide variety of crimes, and do not have the same deep character flaws, as Donald Trump?
For gosh sakes, this is not an irreplaceable person.
MOST of these indictments assume intent. You agree with their assumptions, so you can't see how specious they are. This is weaponized "justice." At every turn, you are seeing democrats file charges to keep Trump from being able to run against Biden.
You read the indictments. Congratulations. Do you understand them? Do you know how hard it is to prove intent?
These DAs aren't starting with proof. You know that. That's why they are charging Trump's lawyers as co-conspirators. You really think it's a good idea to charge people for giving legal advice? No. They are charging them hoping they will flip on Trump and give them the evidence they don't have. This is [BLEEP] up on many different levels.
For all the [BLEEP] you guys spout about protecting our system, you sure don't mind watching it be abused by those who are recklessly wielding its power.
And, again, to your Trump specific question, you miss the point. Most people don't like Trump. Don't get me wrong... he has rabid followers. Most people have grown frustrated with the establishment. These charges only reinforce the notion that the government is overstepping its bounds, which reinforces the view that it needs to be fought back. Watching Trump fight the powers that be is what draws people to Trump in the first place.
So, assuming Trump was "fighting the powers that be" in his first term, what did he accomplish in that regard?
(08-16-2023, 10:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 09:34 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]MOST of these indictments assume intent. You agree with their assumptions, so you can't see how specious they are. This is weaponized "justice." At every turn, you are seeing democrats file charges to keep Trump from being able to run against Biden.
You read the indictments. Congratulations. Do you understand them? Do you know how hard it is to prove intent?
These DAs aren't starting with proof. You know that. That's why they are charging Trump's lawyers as co-conspirators. You really think it's a good idea to charge people for giving legal advice? No. They are charging them hoping they will flip on Trump and give them the evidence they don't have. This is [BLEEP] up on many different levels.
For all the [BLEEP] you guys spout about protecting our system, you sure don't mind watching it be abused by those who are recklessly wielding its power.
And, again, to your Trump specific question, you miss the point. Most people don't like Trump. Don't get me wrong... he has rabid followers. Most people have grown frustrated with the establishment. These charges only reinforce the notion that the government is overstepping its bounds, which reinforces the view that it needs to be fought back. Watching Trump fight the powers that be is what draws people to Trump in the first place.
So, assuming Trump was "fighting the powers that be" in his first term, what did he accomplish in that regard?
He saved the country from being sold off by The Clintons to the highest bidder..
(08-16-2023, 10:21 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 09:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]But you draw the wrong conclusion.
Political violence only becomes likely when a large number of people percieve injustice or illegitimacy.
Your conclusion is we should smash these people if we think they are leftists, and join them if we think they are rightists.
My conclusion is we should work to make the government more just and legitimate in a way that most people will see as transparent, and fair, and favoring neither right nor left.
You want more violence.
I want less.
It seems exceedingly unlikely that the GA prosecution and trial wraps before November 2024. Fani Willis will have to roll straight 6's in terms of cooperation of named conspirators and expedience demanded by the judge.
But it's not going to go away either.
No, you drew your own conclusion about what I'm saying, simply playing your usual "Both sides are bad but conservatives are worse" stuff that is laughable on its face.
What are you saying then?
When you repeatedly say you're more worried about what happened to a police station in Seattle in 2020 than you are about what happened in the US Capitol in 2021, and you're not from Seattle, and have never claimed any family in Seattle, what are you saying?
(08-16-2023, 11:08 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 10:21 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]No, you drew your own conclusion about what I'm saying, simply playing your usual "Both sides are bad but conservatives are worse" stuff that is laughable on its face.
What are you saying then?
When you repeatedly say you're more worried about what happened to a police station in Seattle in 2020 than you are about what happened in the US Capitol in 2021, and you're not from Seattle, and have never claimed any family in Seattle, what are you saying?
The Feds didn't instigate Seattle though they supported it, they did instigate J6 though they pretend to have opposed it. What that means is that one side of the conflict is actively engaged in political violence while the government is tacitly trying to make your case that both sides are essentially the same to cover for their brownshirts. I know you refuse to accept that, but that's where it ends.
(08-16-2023, 12:54 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 11:08 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]What are you saying then?
When you repeatedly say you're more worried about what happened to a police station in Seattle in 2020 than you are about what happened in the US Capitol in 2021, and you're not from Seattle, and have never claimed any family in Seattle, what are you saying?
The Feds didn't instigate Seattle though they supported it, they did instigate J6 though they pretend to have opposed it. What that means is that one side of the conflict is actively engaged in political violence while the government is tacitly trying to make your case that both sides are essentially the same to cover for their brownshirts. I know you refuse to accept that, but that's where it ends.
That's conspiracy theory nonsense. "The feds" includes people who sympathize with Trump and people who don't, and most importantly people who leak to the press. So any suggestion that they have a hidden coordinated agenda is laughable at best.
I'm not saying both sides are essentially the same. I'm saying that neither side is above political violence. So neither side should be too proud. But I am saying that the political violence from the right is much more concerning due to it being more highly organized and precisely targeted. some targets are more important than others.
(08-16-2023, 01:06 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 12:54 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The Feds didn't instigate Seattle though they supported it, they did instigate J6 though they pretend to have opposed it. What that means is that one side of the conflict is actively engaged in political violence while the government is tacitly trying to make your case that both sides are essentially the same to cover for their brownshirts. I know you refuse to accept that, but that's where it ends.
That's conspiracy theory nonsense.
I'm not saying both sides are essentially the same. I'm saying that neither side is above political violence. So neither side should be too proud. But I am saying that the political violence from the right is much more concerning due to it being more highly organized and precisely targeted. some targets are more important than others.
Sure it is...lol. It's funny how they got exactly the result they wanted from all you squishy moderates, their campaign of deflection is working perfectly.
(08-16-2023, 01:34 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 01:06 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]That's conspiracy theory nonsense.
I'm not saying both sides are essentially the same. I'm saying that neither side is above political violence. So neither side should be too proud. But I am saying that the political violence from the right is much more concerning due to it being more highly organized and precisely targeted. some targets are more important than others.
Sure it is...lol. It's funny how they got exactly the result they wanted from all you squishy moderates, their campaign of deflection is working perfectly.
It's funny how "they" got all you conservatives to eat up a bunch of horse [BLEEP] conspiracy theory rather than the plain and simple truth.
Their blatant lies and flimsy propaganda are working perfectly.
Lolololololol
Wow.. The brainwashed are funny to read lolol
FSG and Winger still can't make up their minds between the Jan 6 insurgents being (a) the unfortunate dupes of an FBI false flag operation or (b) the last real American heroes. Either way they testify against themselves. If (a), Trump was obviously a part of the operation to dupe them, he called for them to be there, and if (b) why weren't FSG or Winger also in DC that day?
They don't believe what they are saying.
They don't take themselves or their ideas seriously.
They just want to see the world burn, like Joker in the dark knight.
(08-16-2023, 02:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]FSG and Winger still can't make up their minds between the Jan 6 insurgents being (a) the unfortunate dupes of an FBI false flag operation or (b) the last real American heroes. Either way they testify against themselves. If (a), Trump was obviously a part of the operation to dupe them, he called for them to be there, and if (b) why weren't FSG or Winger also in DC that day?
They don't believe what they are saying.
They don't take themselves or their ideas seriously.
They just want to see the world burn, like Joker in the dark knight.
Hey, I found you and NYC a duplex ya'll can rent together.. Plenty of room for ya'll's mentally ill opinions. Spacious!!
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(08-16-2023, 03:05 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 02:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]FSG and Winger still can't make up their minds between the Jan 6 insurgents being (a) the unfortunate dupes of an FBI false flag operation or (b) the last real American heroes. Either way they testify against themselves. If (a), Trump was obviously a part of the operation to dupe them, he called for them to be there, and if (b) why weren't FSG or Winger also in DC that day?
They don't believe what they are saying.
They don't take themselves or their ideas seriously.
They just want to see the world burn, like Joker in the dark knight.
Hey, I found you and NYC a duplex ya'll can rent together.. Plenty of room for ya'll's mentally ill opinions. Spacious!!
When you can’t make an argument based on data or reasoning and resort to insults, you’re admitting you lost.
(08-16-2023, 03:28 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023, 03:05 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, I found you and NYC a duplex ya'll can rent together.. Plenty of room for ya'll's mentally ill opinions. Spacious!!
When you can’t make an argument based on data or reasoning and resort to insults, you’re admitting you lost.
I gave up arguing a long time ago.. There's nothing I can say that someone else hasn't already said.
And it wasn't really an insult. More like an option..
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