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Just want to get your thoughts on the subject matter. I've actually watched a lot of documentaries and such from both perspectives and up until now, I tended to feel the Palestinians have been mistreated by the Israeli's given the fact that the Israeli's are pretty much taking over the West Bank and have massive restrictions in place to the point where Palestinians cannot access many communities or highways along the West Bank. Also, within the Gaza Strip, Palestinians are pretty much trapped within the confined territory and need to obtain a special pass from Israel to travel outside of the borders, which is most often denied. Additionally, the Palestinians do not have any business infrastructure, leading to the highest rate of unemployment in the world -- 50% of the population on the Gaza Strip relies on the UN subsidiaries (e.g., rice, beans, etc.) to feed their family, many of which have no ties to Hamas.
THAT SAID, there is no excuse for the reprehensible acts that Hamas took against the innocent civilians of Israel so there must be retribution by Israel to end this type of terrorism and prevent future acts of terrorism from Hamas, Hezbollah, and other organizations. The Israeli Government has directed their military to cut off electricity, gas, and any food supplies within the Gaza Strip. This will essentially bring all the people within the Gaza Strip to their knees, prior to Israel's expected takeover of the land. This land was deeded to the Palestinians back in 2006 by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in attempt to partially satisfy Palestine's demand for a 2-state region. Again, the border was controlled by Israel so the people were essentially trapped in the Gaza Strip.
As Israel prepares to take action against Hamas and the Palestinian citizens of the Gaza Strip (and likely the West Bank), what are your thoughts on the subject matter? How much action should Israel take and do you have any empathy for the non-Hamas citizens of the Gaza Strip? I must admit that I used to but this recent act of war has me wondering if a 1-state region would benefit all of the citizens, provided that in the long run Palestinians were given certain rights that would result in employment (etc.) but that would require trust, which is far from conceivable.
(copied from other thread)
A nice thing about America is you can walk down the street saying you support a two state solution, or that you support the elimination of Palestine, or that you support the elimination of Israel. Most days you can do that in Israel too. Though probably not today.
This is because we have our own money, and our own resources. We are independent as a country and our opinions can be freely expressed. Same in Israel.
In the West Bank, you have to be in favor of a Two state solution. If you would rather stop fighting and ask for Israeli citizenship, you will be silenced. If you want to fight to eliminate Israel, you'd better not talk about it. This is because the people in the West Bank have no money and no resources and their government is bought and paid for by the US and EU so they enforce that party line.
In the Gaza Strip, you have to be in favor of fighting for the complete elimination of Israel, for all of it to become Palestine. This is because the people in the Gaza Strip have no money and no resources and their government (Hamas) is funded by Iran. So they enforce the Iranian party line.
In both cases the Palestinians in 2023 are simply fodder in someone else's geopolitical game and their opinion doesn't matter.
But before you feel too bad for them, remember that they were given an opportunity for a free and fair election in 2005 and they chose Hamas. Not all of them, of course, but a majority.
In America we tend to view this conflict through our lens of the struggle for racial civil rights. You might remember the 1970s hit song Love Train touched on this theme.
One of the best newspaper articles I've ever read appeared in the St Pete Times (now Tampa Bay Times) on July 10, 2011 under the headline "A Long Road to Understanding". Unfortunately it's paywalled today.
It was about a group of mostly young Black actors who put on a dramatization of our civil rights movement in this country, and some well meaning American philanthropists arranged for them to repeat the production in Israel and Palestine. Then they were supposed to stay and help direct the locals how to put on the same play but with local actors.
Their performance to Israelis was politely attended but the Israelis didn't want to be involved in putting on their own version. In Palestine they also got a small but polite audience, and a lot of interest in putting on their version.
But the Palestinians added a narrator who explained how going to the back of the bus or getting shot with a water cannon was nothing like going through an army checkpoint or being in the middle of a machine gun battle, and other striking differences. They basically said they would love to play the role of Rosa Parks, if being put on the back of a bus was their only problem. But they have so many problems that nonviolence, to them, is laughable.
@mikesez --- good insight as I forgot they actually had election and voted Hamas as their government. Also, interesting perspective on the 2nd post regarding the civil rights comparison.
@caldrac --- I'm almost getting there as it seems no matter how much $$ and weapons US provides to support wars, earthquakes, etc., half of the world still hates us anyway. In the meantime, China just kicks back and builds their empire.
Money and hypocrisy.
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I, cannot as a practicing man of faith, condone either side. I condemn it completely.
It is unsettling though how Israel treats and views anybody non-Jewish as a whole.
You won't hear that in the mainstream media though.
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Quite interesting. To be honest, when I started this thread, I thought that there'd pretty much be full support of Israel because the US media portrays Israel as the victims and people take their views at face value. Good to see people seeing the other side of the conflict. That said, the brutality that Hamas has inflicted on innocent citizens needs to be condemned severely but knowing the history kind of explains why Palestinians take certain actions. That said, killing 260 people enjoying a concert 4 Peace is totally barbaric.
(10-09-2023, 05:19 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Quite interesting. To be honest, when I started this thread, I thought that there'd pretty much be full support of Israel because the US media portrays Israel as the victims and people take their views at face value. Good to see people seeing the other side of the conflict. That said, the brutality that Hamas has inflicted on innocent citizens needs to be condemned severely but knowing the history kind of explains why Palestinians take certain actions. That said, killing 260 people enjoying a concert 4 Peace is totally barbaric.
Agreed. It's a bloody history for sure. With no resolution in sight. This conflict ensures another generation or two of hate and future bloodshed.
Rinse and repeat. With US tax dollars washed in it. Too many innocent people born into this conflict with no say or choice in the matter really.
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It's ugly
I hate the whole occupation of Palestine part. But I understand retaliating against Hamas too.
Israel has themselves in a bad spot and there's no way to emerge unscathed.
They are an ally and I have to respect that - but I don't agree with the occupation.
Israel is a perfect study of what happens when you appease an enemy and allow them to nest in your border. Israel should move to eliminate Hamas with prejudice they must be rooted out and eliminated. It will be ugly and bloody but if they don't go full throttle and eliminate all support for Hamas they will simply suffer the same attacks again.
Liberalism has left Israel weak and now they are suffering for it. They have rejected a two state solution 5 times since 1927, And twice since 2008. Palastine only acceptable outcome is no Israel you can't negotiate with them you can't appease them you can't coexist with them.
The real problem is Iran, time is coming that someone is going to have to take action against Iran. I fully support Israel, I can also acknowledge a lot of the problems they have they created.
(10-09-2023, 09:32 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Israel is a perfect study of what happens when you appease an enemy and allow them to nest in your border. Israel should move to eliminate Hamas with prejudice they must be rooted out and eliminated. It will be ugly and bloody but if they don't go full throttle and eliminate all support for Hamas they will simply suffer the same attacks again.
Liberalism has left Israel weak and now they are suffering for it. They have rejected a two state solution 5 times since 1927, And twice since 2008. Palastine only acceptable outcome is no Israel you can't negotiate with them you can't appease them you can't coexist with them.
The real problem is Iran, time is coming that someone is going to have to take action against Iran. I fully support Israel, I can also acknowledge a lot of the problems they have they created.
Disagree. Until our Government gets it's hands out of being the world police, or, worse, which I think it really is, a power hungry military industrial complex. None of this will stop.
We gave money to Iran. They had access to billions of dollars to fund Hamas. This is classic, good old fashioned, USA "intervention" that caused this.
I am so tired of people being brainwashed by the media, virtually owned by the jewish elite to begin with, boot licking for Israel because the media said so.
Pathetic. Try harder. There's a tax paying sucker born here every minute now. Israel is a perfect example of what western power hungry influence can do with billions of dollars at it's disposal.
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https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyMolz6rc...ODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyM11ihuc...ODBiNWFlZA==
If you stand with Israel. You're wrong. If you stand with Palestine you're wrong. Both are backed and funded by crooked, corrupted military industrial complex supporters and financial backers.
It's not about religion. It's about resources and control. Period. Stop voting for these [BLEEP]. Stop supporting the western media. It's a joke.
Israel is not our ally. It's an extension of western control. These same people spit on Christians, piss on Palestinian children, etc. Take your boot licking elsewhere.
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(10-09-2023, 10:17 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyMolz6rc...ODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyM11ihuc...ODBiNWFlZA==
If you stand with Israel. You're wrong. If you stand with Palestine you're wrong. Both are backed and funded by crooked, corrupted military industrial complex supporters and financial backers.
It's not about religion. It's about resources and control. Period. Stop voting for these [BLEEP]. Stop supporting the western media. It's a joke.
Israel is not our ally. It's an extension of western control. These same people spit on Christians, piss on Palestinian children, etc. Take your boot licking elsewhere.
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Speaking of swallowing the propaganda.
Caldrac, man, calm down.
Yes Israel does bad things.
Some people will accuse anyone who says that of hating Jews.
I criticize Israel for some stuff but I don't hate Jews. Or Muslims. Go ahead and criticize Israel. Do not hate Jews. Or Muslims. Take yourself back from the edge. There are multiple synagogues in Duval. Maybe multiple mosques as well. Odds are someone you work with, someone whose kids go to school with your kids, or someone they work with, worships at one of those synagogues or mosques. They are ordinary people.
(10-09-2023, 10:35 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Caldrac, man, calm down.
Yes Israel does bad things.
Some people will accuse anyone who says that of hating Jews.
I criticize Israel but I don't hate Jews. Or Muslims. Go ahead and criticize Israel. Do not hate Jews. Or Muslims. Take yourself back from the edge. There are multiple synagogues in Duval. Maybe multiple mosques as well. Odds are omeone you work with, someone whose kids go to school with your kids, worships at one of those synagogues or mosques. They are ordinary people.
Nor do I. Just find it rich when Americans swallow their media from a clearly specific group and then preach this or preach that.
I could care less which religion you subscribe to. I care about cui bono. I care about our country and where our taxes are going.
We're being lied to. As usual. And being told to stand with Israel, an alleged ally.
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