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Quote:I can vote but won't bother as I now live in Australia. The key for most is the free movement of people. If they stopped this most would vote to stay. Personally I would probably vote to leave but I don't think it would effect me much either way if I lived there. I think the EU is bad for those at the bottom of society (and those poorer countries stuck with the euro)

For what it's worth; I know a few Brits living in the Netherlands or other European countries and they are unanimous in voting to stay. The freedom of movement and employment is way too valuable to them. 

It makes it a lot easier for a tourist with the single currency and open borders.  

Quote:It makes it a lot easier for a tourist with the single currency and open borders.  

The UK at the moment isn't in the Eurozone and technically has closed borders, though that just means some border guard takes a 10 second look at your passport before waving you through. 

Quote:I will freely admit I don't know a lot about the EU.   That said, it seems like one of the biggest problems is the difference between the rich countries and the poor countries.   Being in the EU means Greece is your problem, not their problem.   The rich countries understandably don't want to bail out the poor countries, especially since the poor countries created their own problems.

 

Sounds like the same welfare issue as in this country.

Quote:I'm not sure that's quite a comparative to the UK as one of the world's biggest economies but obviously there is a degree of uncertainty. It looks like there will be a slim victory to stay in as it stands.

I don't have a dog in the fight I was just saying I understand darlos point of the unknown being a bigger fear for him than the beurcracy of the EU.

I'm in two minds about the EU.


On the good side : Ireland has gained more than any other country from the EU and the early EEC. Completely revamped our backwards little farming country into quite a nice place to live. As an avid traveller the EU is great and so easy to get around. Cheap airline tickets also.


The bad: We were screwed over by Europe during the bailout and had to follow what the EU said with very little leeway to manoeuvre. No body should have more control on a country than its own government. I despise Germany's role in today's EU.

Quote: I despise Germany's role in today's EU.

 

What they couldn't accomplish with 1,000 years of war they accomplished with a simple vote.

Quote:What they couldn't accomplish with 1,000 years of war they accomplished with a simple vote.

Adolf Merkel has all the economic lebensraum she needs now.

Quote:For what it's worth; I know a few Brits living in the Netherlands or other European countries and they are unanimous in voting to stay. The freedom of movement and employment is way too valuable to them. 

 

Well it's likely that those who have taken advantage of moving abroad will vote stay as it has benefited them and they don't want to be in a position where they could have to move back. I also think nobody would be complaining if it was just the more affluent countries of the EU. But I can vouch that my home town has turned into mini Poland and are willing to do work much cheaper than a british tradesman, which obviously suppresses wages. I can't imagine too many Brits are taking advantage of moving to Eastern europe either. 

I have no sympathy for those who choose convenience over sovereignty.  They are already enslaved in their minds. 

I don't know enough about the entire situation, but I do know that the stock market here is going to react one way or the other.  That's one of the reasons that The Fed held off raising interest rates here.  If the brits choose to stay, the stock market will probably be fine and may climb a bit.  If they choose to leave, look for the stock market to drop considerably.

Quote:I have no sympathy for those who choose convenience over sovereignty.  They are already enslaved in their minds. 

 

To be fair you aren't the best advert for free thinking.

Britain will likely have a pretty rough time for the next 5-6 years if they leave. A recession is likely but perhaps it is worth it in the long term.

Quote:To be fair you aren't the best advert for free thinking.

 

Quote:It makes it a lot easier for a tourist with the single currency and open borders.

 


We have a different currency to most of Europe, although, it would hake it easier to travel without having to have visas everywhere you go..


 

Quote:I don't have a dog in the fight I was just saying I understand darlos point of the unknown being a bigger fear for him than the beurcracy of the EU.

  


Exactly my feelings.

Quote:I have no sympathy for those who choose convenience over sovereignty.  They are already enslaved in their minds.

It's not a case of "convenience" as you so put it. It's a case of "I like his things are run, so I'm happy to continue". Sure, things MAY improve if we left, they also may not, but I don't want to take that chance because, as I said, I like how things are. Don't fix it, if it ain't broken. I know it's not for everyone and politics draws up so many opinions, but that's both the annoyance and the beauty of it.


  

Quote:I don't know enough about the entire situation, but I do know that the stock market here is going to react one way or the other.  That's one of the reasons that The Fed held off raising interest rates here.  If the brits choose to stay, the stock market will probably be fine and may climb a bit.  If they choose to leave, look for the stock market to drop considerably.

Yeah these are all potential factors in my vote choice.

Ease of travel is hardly worth sacrificing national sovereignty. You can develop reciporacal immigration without giving a wholly ubelected bureaucracy control over your economy.


The whole point of thecommon marketplace was to expand trade. There are third world countries with more in the way of aggregate GDP available from the countries they have trade deals with than the UK as a member state.


I would recommend the movie, its very informative.

Quote:Ease of travel is hardly worth sacrificing national sovereignty. You can develop reciporacal immigration without giving a wholly ubelected bureaucracy control over your economy.


The whole point of thecommon marketplace was to expand trade. There are third world countries with more in the way of aggregate GDP available from the countries they have trade deals with than the UK as a member state.


I would recommend the movie, its very informative.

The EU isn't unelected.

From what I saw, the European parliament is elected. It also has virtually no power the actual ministers and heads of councils aren't subject to elections.

The fact that there is a referendum on the EU shows the UK is sovereign. I couldn't vote to remain though the EU is a big bureaucratic mess. The movement between Strasbourg and Brussels alone is a total joke.

In this instance there is an ability to exercise sovereignty that's why I emphatically say take it. Its not like there will be another referendum in 4 years.