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Quote:While Trump will never get as far as a real VP nod like Palin - the apparent common thread is that he'll be a distraction to a certain sect of right wing voters from viable Republican candidates.  Then - when he does endorse a candidate after being eliminated from relevancy in the election - he'll only detract from that candidate's viability in the eyes of informed potential voters. 

 

Too many well informed conservative and moderate voters already consider him a joke. Just like many did Palin. 

I don't think that will be the case.  He'll be a sideshow entertainer in the race who can pretty much say or do anything because he doesn't have to rely on donations to make this run.  Nobody is going to take Trump seriously (c'mon, Oprah as his running mate?), but he will have some legitimate issues he can bring up during the course of the primary season that will not only force republicans in the race to address them, but democrats as well. 

 

I consider him a joke, but maybe a necessary one.  If you listened to his speech yesterday, he hit on all the right issues before completely discrediting himself with the Oprah line.  He steered clear of any and all social issues, and focused on the economy, trade, foreign policy, jobs, and business development domestically.  If his entry into the election draws the narrative toward these issues and doesn't allow the mainstream media to use social issues to define the republican field, it's well worth it. 

 

Palin was a terrible choice for McCain in 2004, but then again, he wasn't running to actually win the election.  She wasn't an awful choice because of who she was as much as due to the fact that she simply wasn't ready to take on that role.  McCain was just running to fulfill an obligation the party had to giving him that shot.  He was the next guy up at the time.  The Palin selection came out of left field, and I think it actually did her more harm than good to be attached to that campaign.  She was a rising star in the party who actually isn't nearly the idiot that she was made out to be thanks to Tina Fey's portrayal, and also a few gaffes that were more about her lack of experience on foreign policy than anything else.  Had she not been tapped for that spot by McCain, I would think that she probably would have continued her rise through the ranks.  Being strapped to a terrible nominee, she was forced to conform to what the campaign wanted her to be, and in the end, that pretty much ruined her political career after the media turned their full attention to dragging her down.  I honestly don't think Palin was a distraction in that campaign.  If anything, she probably helped McCain keep it closer than it should have been.  He was an awful candidate who ran a lousy campaign.

McCain didn't want to be president?


Of all the things you can say about McCain, that's not one of them. Just look how bitter he became after his loss.


His choice of Palin was the ultimate political move based on his desperation to be president. Against his better judgement he tapped Palin to be a game changer. It blew up in his face because Palin turned out to be a joke (much like trump is), but he didn't pick her to tank the race because he didn't want to be president.

Quote:I don't think that will be the case. He'll be a sideshow entertainer in the race who can pretty much say or do anything because he doesn't have to rely on donations to make this run. Nobody is going to take Trump seriously (c'mon, Oprah as his running mate?), but he will have some legitimate issues he can bring up during the course of the primary season that will not only force republicans in the race to address them, but democrats as well.


I consider him a joke, but maybe a necessary one. If you listened to his speech yesterday, he hit on all the right issues before completely discrediting himself with the Oprah line. He steered clear of any and all social issues, and focused on the economy, trade, foreign policy, jobs, and business development domestically. If his entry into the election draws the narrative toward these issues and doesn't allow the mainstream media to use social issues to define the republican field, it's well worth it.


Palin was a terrible choice for McCain in 2004, but then again, he wasn't running to actually win the election. She wasn't an awful choice because of who she was as much as due to the fact that she simply wasn't ready to take on that role. McCain was just running to fulfill an obligation the party had to giving him that shot. He was the next guy up at the time. The Palin selection came out of left field, and I think it actually did her more harm than good to be attached to that campaign. She was a rising star in the party who actually isn't nearly the idiot that she was made out to be thanks to Tina Fey's portrayal, and also a few gaffes that were more about her lack of experience on foreign policy than anything else. Had she not been tapped for that spot by McCain, I would think that she probably would have continued her rise through the ranks. Being strapped to a terrible nominee, she was forced to conform to what the campaign wanted her to be, and in the end, that pretty much ruined her political career after the media turned their full attention to dragging her down. I honestly don't think Palin was a distraction in that campaign. If anything, she probably helped McCain keep it closer than it should have been. He was an awful candidate who ran a lousy campaign.

Quote:McCain didn't want to be president?

Of all the things you can say about McCain, that's not one of them. Just look how bitter he became after his loss.

His choice of Palin was the ultimate political move based on his desperation to be president. Against his better judgement he tapped Palin to be a game changer. It blew up in his face because Palin turned out to be a joke (much like trump is), but he didn't pick her to tank the race because he didn't want to be president.

Trump hit on all the right issues? How? Oh..yeah.. By stating most Mexicans don't have any value here. Weird way to bring up the immigration " issue". The dead American dream? How rich he is? Yep...hammered that stuff outta the park ( ave)

McCain wasn't in it to win it?

Trump is a necessary joke?

Palin would have raised through the ranks if not strapped to a horrible nominee?

She wasn't a distraction in the campaign?

Ok


It wasn't just Trump who discredited himself

Quote:McCain didn't want to be president?


Of all the things you can say about McCain, that's not one of them. Just look how bitter he became after his loss.


His choice of Palin was the ultimate political move based on his desperation to be president. Against his better judgement he tapped Palin to be a game changer. It blew up in his face because Palin turned out to be a joke (much like trump is), but he didn't pick her to tank the race because he didn't want to be president.

 

Based on the campaign he ran in 2008, it's clear he didn't really have the desire to win that election.  He may have liked the idea of being president, but not enough to actually run the kind of campaign that would have given him a better shot.  He was shell shocked by the fact that his status as a beloved "maverick" in the mainstream media didn't give him any gravitas once he was the nominee for the party running against the myth that was created by the same mainstream media. 

 

There were far more credible options McCain could have chosen to be his running mate at the time.  Selecting her as his running mate was an attempt to add a young fresh face to an old, tired ticket.  McCain was simply the next guy in line in 2008, much like past republicans like Bob Dole were in years past.  Picking Palin failed miserably because she wasn't seasoned enough to be an effective campaigner on a national level.  She actually had decent political instincts, but she was stymied by a nominee who was paralyzed by political correctness as he tried to avoid offending anyone by taking a strong position on any issue.

 

I wasn't a huge fan of Palin as his running mate, but I was even less impressed with McCain. 

 

Quote:Trump hit on all the right issues? How? Oh..yeah.. By stating most Mexicans don't have any value here. Weird way to bring up the immigration " issue". The dead American dream? How rich he is? Yep...hammered that stuff outta the park ( ave)

McCain wasn't in it to win it?

Trump is a necessary joke?

Palin would have raised through the ranks if not strapped to a horrible nominee?

She wasn't a distraction in the campaign?

Ok


It wasn't just Trump who discredited himself

 

McCain's campaign was dead before he was even the nominee.  As soon as the media created the myth known as Barack Obama, he was toast.  Anyone with a functional IQ who followed politics even remotely could see that from the start.  Even McCain knew he was done because the narrative was already being spun that if you disagreed with Obama, you were clearly a racist.  Forget the fact that the guy had zero resume to stand behind as he ran.  He could read a teleprompter and speak the words of others masterfully.  That and his skin tone were all that mattered in 2008. 

 

Palin didn't distract anyone from the fact that there was a weak nominee on the republican side.  Nothing she was going to do was going to hinder that from being the obvious truth. 

 

Palin's rise (to whatever extent that might have been) was absolutely snuffed out by the McCain campaign.  Between false depictions of her by SNL becoming the narrative that people believed was actually her, and the sniping by those McCain loyalists inside the campaign who did everything they could to trash her, that campaign ended whatever political aspirations she might have had.  7 years later, people like you are still fixated on her.  I wonder why that is?

 

I won't get into a discussion with you about what Trump said and how he hit on all the big issues that should matter to republican voters because you're simply not capable of seeing beyond your own bias.  You make that abundantly clear every time you post in this forum.  You're the perfect democrat voter.

 

Trump has been discrediting himself for decades.  That doesn't mean he's not capable of being an asset in this campaign for the GOP.  He is a wing nut who is more about self promotion than anything else, but if you bothered to listen to his announcement, he didn't touch on a single social issue, which is exactly as it should be.  This election shouldn't be about who can marry whom.  It needs to be about who can do a better job of managing the economy, trade, the military, and national security, and that's precisely what he did. He knows he doesn't have a legitimate chance to win anything, but he can absolutely have a hand in keeping the narrative where it needs to be with such a weak cast of characters running on the democrat ticket.

Quote:I don't think that will be the case.  He'll be a sideshow entertainer in the race who can pretty much say or do anything because he doesn't have to rely on donations to make this run.  Nobody is going to take Trump seriously (c'mon, Oprah as his running mate?), but he will have some legitimate issues he can bring up during the course of the primary season that will not only force republicans in the race to address them, but democrats as well. 

 

I consider him a joke, but maybe a necessary one.  If you listened to his speech yesterday, he hit on all the right issues before completely discrediting himself with the Oprah line.  He steered clear of any and all social issues, and focused on the economy, trade, foreign policy, jobs, and business development domestically.  If his entry into the election draws the narrative toward these issues and doesn't allow the mainstream media to use social issues to define the republican field, it's well worth it. 

 

Palin was a terrible choice for McCain in 2004, but then again, he wasn't running to actually win the election.  She wasn't an awful choice because of who she was as much as due to the fact that she simply wasn't ready to take on that role..........

 

 

You make some fair points but we'll just disagree on the Palin stuff. I think she's absolutely the idiot she made herself out to be. She didn't need SNL to soil any reputation.  She did that by opening her mouth in front of microphones.  (though 70% of middle American voters probably had no clue she even existed before the McCain nod) 

It's going to be tougher for the GOP candidate when Trump concedes and gives his grace.

 

The hispanic/minority vote was always a challenge, but it may be even tougher.

 

Perhaps tagging Rubio as a VP could dispel this notion... Either way, the GOP will have to change up what they do and who they normally push for. 

 

Other than that, Trump hit on some major notes which will make this race interesting to watch.

McCain discredited himself when he stopped being a Republican in name only and pandered hard to the party line. I still contend that, had he held to the demeanor he'd shown in earlier runs at the big office and during his time in Congress, and had he not tapped a smart-mouthed, slack-brained piece of eye candy as his running mate, he could easily have taken 2008.

Quote:McCain discredited himself when he stopped being a Republican in name only and pandered hard to the party line. I still contend that, had he held to the demeanor he'd shown in earlier runs at the big office and during his time in Congress, and had he not tapped a smart-mouthed, slack-brained piece of eye candy as his running mate, he could easily have taken 2008.

 

McCain wasn't going to beat Obama even if he stuck to his RINO roots.  Palin didn't cost him the presidency.  I think you're buying into the notion that his "maverick" status somehow made him electable, and it didn't.  It got him the nomination vs. a weak field. 

Quote:It's going to be tougher for the GOP candidate when Trump concedes and gives his grace.

 

The hispanic/minority vote was always a challenge, but it may be even tougher.

 

Perhaps tagging Rubio as a VP could dispel this notion... Either way, the GOP will have to change up what they do and who they normally push for. 

 

Other than that, Trump hit on some major notes which will make this race interesting to watch.

Republican candidates are never going to win the minority vote.  and even if an Hispanic candidate winds up on the ticket, rest assured the media will do a George Zimmerman on the guy and label him a white Hispanic to assure that it has zero impact on how the minorities vote.  He'll still be an evil white guy.

Quote:I don't think that will be the case.  He'll be a sideshow entertainer in the race who can pretty much say or do anything because he doesn't have to rely on donations to make this run.  Nobody is going to take Trump seriously (c'mon, Oprah as his running mate?), but he will have some legitimate issues he can bring up during the course of the primary season that will not only force republicans in the race to address them, but democrats as well. 

 

I consider him a joke, but maybe a necessary one.  If you listened to his speech yesterday, he hit on all the right issues before completely discrediting himself with the Oprah line.  He steered clear of any and all social issues, and focused on the economy, trade, foreign policy, jobs, and business development domestically.  If his entry into the election draws the narrative toward these issues and doesn't allow the mainstream media to use social issues to define the republican field, it's well worth it. 

 

Palin was a terrible choice for McCain in 2004, but then again, he wasn't running to actually win the election.  She wasn't an awful choice because of who she was as much as due to the fact that she simply wasn't ready to take on that role.  McCain was just running to fulfill an obligation the party had to giving him that shot.  He was the next guy up at the time.  The Palin selection came out of left field, and I think it actually did her more harm than good to be attached to that campaign.  She was a rising star in the party who actually isn't nearly the idiot that she was made out to be thanks to Tina Fey's portrayal, and also a few gaffes that were more about her lack of experience on foreign policy than anything else.  Had she not been tapped for that spot by McCain, I would think that she probably would have continued her rise through the ranks.  Being strapped to a terrible nominee, she was forced to conform to what the campaign wanted her to be, and in the end, that pretty much ruined her political career after the media turned their full attention to dragging her down.  I honestly don't think Palin was a distraction in that campaign.  If anything, she probably helped McCain keep it closer than it should have been.  He was an awful candidate who ran a lousy campaign.

 

You mean, he stuck to issues that really matter?

 

I got to listen to part of his speech while eating lunch yesterday.  I certainly can't disagree with his ideas.

Quote:Republican candidates are never going to win the minority vote.  and even if an Hispanic candidate winds up on the ticket, rest assured the media will do a George Zimmerman on the guy and label him a white Hispanic to assure that it has zero impact on how the minorities vote.  He'll still be an evil white guy.

 

This is sad but true.  What is even more interesting is the fact that many minorities that often vote democrat have more conservative values regarding "issues that matter" as well as social issues.  I've seen it in my own family, but things are starting to change.

 

For the record, yes I'm a "minority" and come from a minority heritage.  My skin is it's natural color and I "identify" with my natural heritage.

Donald Trump is probably the one person who if elected would make me leave this country as fast as humanly possible.

Quote:Donald Trump is probably the one person who if elected would make me leave this country as fast as humanly possible.

Clearly you've never met Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush.

Quote:This is sad but true.  What is even more interesting is the fact that many minorities that often vote democrat have more conservative values regarding "issues that matter" as well as social issues.  I've seen it in my own family, but things are starting to change.

 

For the record, yes I'm a "minority" and come from a minority heritage.  My skin is it's natural color and I "identify" with my natural heritage.

 

It is sad but true, and yes, there are minorities who are starting to wake up to the reality that all the promises they've been fed by democrats over the years have barely been delivered on, yet they have continued to vote them back into office election cycle after election cycle. 

 

Not that the republicans have been any better. 

 

They're paralyzed for fear that they might offend someone by speaking their minds because they've been conditioned to believe that if they do, they'll be labeled racists by those who support the current administration.  It's the great neutralizer and they've fallen into the trap time and time again.  Any minority who cannot be identified as such visibly will wind up being labeled not (insert your minority of choice here) enough.  If they're visibly a minority (black in particular), they'll be tagged an Uncle Tom or a sellout.  We've all seen it. 

Quote:It is sad but true, and yes, there are minorities who are starting to wake up to the reality that all the promises they've been fed by democrats over the years have barely been delivered on, yet they have continued to vote them back into office election cycle after election cycle. 

 

Not that the republicans have been any better. 

 

They're paralyzed for fear that they might offend someone by speaking their minds because they've been conditioned to believe that if they do, they'll be labeled racists by those who support the current administration.  It's the great neutralizer and they've fallen into the trap time and time again.  Any minority who cannot be identified as such visibly will wind up being labeled not (insert your minority of choice here) enough.  If they're visibly a minority (black in particular), they'll be tagged an Uncle Tom or a sellout.  We've all seen it. 

 

I see a change coming about within my own community (Hispanic).  Most that I know have the same values and principles that most conservatives hold, yet they have been "trained" all of their lives to vote democrat.  My own parents are an example, and I was very surprised when my mother expressed her interest and support for Marco Rubio over Hillary Clinton.  The interest has little to do with his heritage (though that probably has something to do with it I must admit).  They are life long democrats, yet they don't want to and would not vote for Hillary.

 

Me personally, I left the democrat party years ago, though at an early voting age that is the party that I associated with.  I was a member of the democrat party because of my upbringing.  My parents always voted democrat, so I thought that was the thing to do.  It wasn't until I "grew up" and saw things for what they are that I changed my party affiliation.  Today I remain in the republican party only so that I can vote in the primaries.

Quote:I see a change coming about within my own community (Hispanic).  Most that I know have the same values and principles that most conservatives hold, yet they have been "trained" all of their lives to vote democrat.  My own parents are an example, and I was very surprised when my mother expressed her interest and support for Marco Rubio over Hillary Clinton.  The interest has little to do with his heritage (though that probably has something to do with it I must admit).  They are life long democrats, yet they don't want to and would not vote for Hillary.

 

Me personally, I left the democrat party years ago, though at an early voting age that is the party that I associated with.  I was a member of the democrat party because of my upbringing.  My parents always voted democrat, so I thought that was the thing to do.  It wasn't until I "grew up" and saw things for what they are that I changed my party affiliation.  Today I remain in the republican party only so that I can vote in the primaries.

Unfortunately, that's a trend that will barely make a difference, especially if the administration can find a way to jam amnesty down our throats AND provide those folks with a pathway to a voter registration.

Quote:Unfortunately, that's a trend that will barely make a difference, especially if the administration can find a way to jam amnesty down our throats AND provide those folks with a pathway to a voter registration.

Any politician that tried to pull that off (including Obama) would be cooked in seconds, and for good reason, by members of both parties. An effort to extend voting rights to illegal immigrants would be any and all required nails in the coffin of a politician's career.

 

*Edit: it seems that attempts have already been made to "accidentally" grant voting rights to them. IMO, nothing short of a voter registration card and matching ID should allow you to vote.

Quote:Any politician that tried to pull that off (including Obama) would be cooked in seconds, and for good reason, by members of both parties. An effort to extend voting rights to illegal immigrants would be any and all required nails in the coffin of a politician's career.

 

*Edit: it seems that attempts have already been made to "accidentally" grant voting rights to them. IMO, nothing short of a voter registration card and matching ID should allow you to vote.

 

Here is something that you and I clearly agree on.

Quote:Here is something that you and I clearly agree on.

We probably agree on more than you think, just not semantics.

Quote:Based on the campaign he ran in 2008, it's clear he didn't really have the desire to win that election.  He may have liked the idea of being president, but not enough to actually run the kind of campaign that would have given him a better shot.  He was shell shocked by the fact that his status as a beloved "maverick" in the mainstream media didn't give him any gravitas once he was the nominee for the party running against the myth that was created by the same mainstream media. 

 

There were far more credible options McCain could have chosen to be his running mate at the time.  Selecting her as his running mate was an attempt to add a young fresh face to an old, tired ticket.  McCain was simply the next guy in line in 2008, much like past republicans like Bob Dole were in years past.  Picking Palin failed miserably because she wasn't seasoned enough to be an effective campaigner on a national level.  She actually had decent political instincts, but she was stymied by a nominee who was paralyzed by political correctness as he


 

I wasn't a huge fan of Palin as his running mate, but I was even less impressed with McCain. 

 


 

McCain's campaign was dead before he was even the nominee.  As soon as the media created the myth known as Barack Obama, he was toast.  Anyone with a functional IQ who followed politics even remotely could see that from the start.  Even McCain knew he was done because the narrative was already being spun that if you disagreed with Obama, you were clearly a racist.  Forget the fact that the guy had zero resume to stand behind as he ran.  He could read a teleprompter and speak the words of others masterfully.  That and his skin tone were all that mattered in 2008. 

 

Palin didn't distract anyone from the fact that there was a weak nominee on the republican side.  Nothing she was going to do was going to hinder that from being the obvious truth. 

 

Palin's rise (to whatever extent that might have been) was absolutely snuffed out by the McCain campaign.  Between false depictions of her by SNL becoming the narrative that people believed was actually her, and the sniping by those McCain loyalists inside the campaign who did everything they could to trash her, that campaign ended whatever political aspirations she might have had.  7 years later, people like you are still fixated on her.  I wonder why that is?

 

I won't get into a discussion with you about what Trump said and how he hit on all the big issues that should matter to republican voters because you're simply not capable of seeing beyond your own bias.  You make that abundantly clear every time you post in this forum.  You're the perfect democrat voter.

 

Trump has been discrediting himself for decades.  That doesn't mean he's not capable of being an asset in this campaign for the GOP.  He is a wing nut who is more about self promotion than anything else, but if you bothered to listen to his announcement, he didn't touch on a single social issue, which is exactly as it should be.  This election shouldn't be about who can marry whom.  It needs to be about who can do a better job of managing the economy, trade, the military, and national security, and that's precisely what he did. He knows he doesn't have a legitimate chance to win anything, but he can absolutely have a hand in keeping the narrative where it needs to be with such a weak cast of characters running on the democrat ticket.

tried to avoid offending anyone by taking a strong position on any issue.


"I won't get into a discussion with you about what Trump said and how he hit on all the big issues that should matter to republican voters because you're simply not capable of seeing beyond your own bias.  You make that abundantly clear every time you post in this forum.  You're the perfect democrat voter."


Presumptions work both ways. You don't see past your own bias, although you tend to disguise it, being a TParty type republican. You make that clear in your posts. No big deal.

But I do believe you are a closet Trump supporter, for that reason and the fact your personalities are so similar. And that's ok too, that's every individual's freedom of choice.