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Why is Donald Trump considered to be courageous because he speaks his mind? It's not like he has anything to lose that he can't live without.

Quote:Interesting read. While Trump certainly wasn't one of my top 3 or 4 candidates, this certainly gives me pause if he lined the pockets of Rangel, Kennedy, Reid, McCain, amongst others.

 

In the following interview,  Donald Trump discusses why he gave campaign contributions to Democrats.  While I believe this might have truly been Trump's mindset,  if you believe these individuals have policies and ideas that will severely harm the United States,  you should put the country ahead of your own short term business interests:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/08/politics/d...t-workers/

Quote:In the following interview,  Donald Trump discusses why he gave campaign contributions to Democrats.  While I believe this might have truly been Trump's mindset,  if you believe these individuals have policies and ideas that will severely harm the United States,  you should put the country ahead of your own short term business interests:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/08/politics/d...t-workers/

 

Trump is one of the biggest advocates of cronyism. Much of his wealth has come on the backs of taxpayers.

Quote:Trump is one of the biggest advocates of cronyism. Much of his wealth has come on the backs of taxpayers.

 

Which, ironically, qualifies him and puts him on par with the career politicians in the Clintons, Obamas, Reid, and Pelosi (the more powerful politicians of recent times) whose life fortunes were made that way.  Difference is, his was made before politics and not simply because of politics alone.

 

His value is in that we're actually talking issues instead of distractions.

 

The left despises him for that, and he's a Perot like threat to the right.  Still, I feel he's necessary to advance real dialogue.

 

For that sole reason, I love that we're actually being forced to debate meaningful, important topics.

 

Otherwise, it would be just more softballs like "what's your favorite ice cream flavor" for the preferred candidates, and more hateful hyperbole thrown at the non preferred candidates by the complicit and unapologetic media.

Quote:Which, ironically, qualifies him and puts him on par with the career politicians in the Clintons, Obamas, Reid, and Pelosi (the more powerful politicians of recent times) whose life fortunes were made that way.  Difference is, his was made before politics and not simply because of politics alone.

 

His value is in that we're actually talking issues instead of distractions.

 

The left despises him for that, and he's a Perot like threat to the right.  Still, I feel he's necessary to advance real dialogue.

 

For that sole reason, I love that we're actually being forced to debate meaningful, important topics.

 

Otherwise, it would be just more softballs like "what's your favorite ice cream flavor" for the preferred candidates, and more hateful hyperbole thrown at the non preferred candidates by the complicit and unapologetic media.

 

Agreed.  Like him or not, he has opened up the dialog in a way that wasn't happening before he entered the race.  The media tried to spin his comments into something that could have turned into a distraction, but unfortunate for them. a string of violent acts by illegal aliens have pretty much silenced their attempt to paint Trump as a racist with his comments.  Not to mention the fact that an FBI report was released that got zero play in the media. 

 

Why?  Because it backs up what Trump said.

 

I'm not a fan of Trump.  The guy is an obsessive self promoter.  But, he's made and lost more money, rebuilt his empire several times, and he's done it using the system and all the opportunities it presents.  He's capable of saying what he thinks, unshackled from the constraints big money donors and special interest groups put on their candidates du jour.  He'll make what would otherwise be considered a fairly milquetoast field of candidates extremely entertaining to watch.  He's stealing thunder from all angles.

 

I know most people can't stand him because he's an egomaniac.  That's a trait that pretty much every candidate, and every person who has ever held that office in the past century or more, have in common.  We haven't had a president who actually exercised true humility since possibly George Washington, who didn't want the job.  Anyone who has pursued it has to have enough ego to think they know what's best for this nation.  That takes some kind of special ego.

Quote:Agreed.  Like him or not, he has opened up the dialog in a way that wasn't happening before he entered the race.  The media tried to spin his comments into something that could have turned into a distraction, but unfortunate for them. a string of violent acts by illegal aliens have pretty much silenced their attempt to paint Trump as a racist with his comments.  Not to mention the fact that an FBI report was released that got zero play in the media. 

 

Why?  Because it backs up what Trump said.

 

I'm not a fan of Trump.  The guy is an obsessive self promoter.  But, he's made and lost more money, rebuilt his empire several times, and he's done it using the system and all the opportunities it presents.  He's capable of saying what he thinks, unshackled from the constraints big money donors and special interest groups put on their candidates du jour.  He'll make what would otherwise be considered a fairly milquetoast field of candidates extremely entertaining to watch.  He's stealing thunder from all angles.

 

I know most people can't stand him because he's an egomaniac.  That's a trait that pretty much every candidate, and every person who has ever held that office in the past century or more, have in common.  We haven't had a president who actually exercised true humility since possibly George Washington, who didn't want the job.  Anyone who has pursued it has to have enough ego to think they know what's best for this nation.  That takes some kind of special ego.

 

The article you linked cites an FBI report that states the actual numbers are inconclusive, but refers to another report saying there are 1.4 million gang members in 33,000 gangs in the U.S. According to the article, the 2013 gang report states gangs in the Southwest are 80% comprised of illegal aliens. Extrapolating numbers from this is extremely difficult, but it's obvious there is a problem. However, given there are an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S., instead of assuming some of them are good people, it would be more correct to say the vast majority of them are good people.

Quote:The article you linked cites an FBI report that states the actual numbers are inconclusive, but refers to another report saying there are 1.4 million gang members in 33,000 gangs in the U.S. According to the article, the 2013 gang report states gangs in the Southwest are 80% comprised of illegal aliens. Extrapolating numbers from this is extremely difficult, but it's obvious there is a problem. However, given there are an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S., instead of assuming some of them are good people, it would be more correct to say the vast majority of them are good people.

Poor choice of words on his part, but the point remains the same. 

Quote:Which, ironically, qualifies him and puts him on par with the career politicians in the Clintons, Obamas, Reid, and Pelosi (the more powerful politicians of recent times) whose life fortunes were made that way.  Difference is, his was made before politics and not simply because of politics alone.

 

His value is in that we're actually talking issues instead of distractions.

 

The left despises him for that, and he's a Perot like threat to the right.  Still, I feel he's necessary to advance real dialogue.

 

For that sole reason, I love that we're actually being forced to debate meaningful, important topics.

 

Otherwise, it would be just more softballs like "what's your favorite ice cream flavor" for the preferred candidates, and more hateful hyperbole thrown at the non preferred candidates by the complicit and unapologetic media.

 

You get today's Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.

Quote:Poor choice of words on his part, but the point remains the same. 

 

Well, if the point is that bigoted hyperbole is justified because it opens up a necessary dialogue. It does not exonerate Trump from criticism. He deserves no praise. His "poor choice of words" were a prime example of fear mongering bigotry.

Quote:Well, if the point is that bigoted hyperbole is justified because it opens up a necessary dialogue. It does not exonerate Trump from criticism. He deserves no praise. His "poor choice of words" were a prime example of fear mongering bigotry.

 

Once again, rather than address the message, attack the messenger by whatever means.  Please give us a quote from Donald Trump that is "bigoted hyperbole" or false.  Please give an example of "fear mongering bigotry".

Quote:Once again, rather than address the message, attack the messenger by whatever means.  Please give us a quote from Donald Trump that is "bigoted hyperbole" or false.  Please give an example of "fear mongering bigotry".

 

I'm not using "whatever means", I'm using his words. He leads with "illegal immigrants are murderers and rapists", then qualifies it with "I assume some are good people", when the fact is the overwhelming majority are good people. If you don't understand what he's doing there, then I can't help you.

 

It wasn't merely a poor choice of words, he's deliberately overstating his case for shock effect.

Quote:Once again, rather than address the message, attack the messenger by whatever means.  Please give us a quote from Donald Trump that is "bigoted hyperbole" or false.  Please give an example of "fear mongering bigotry".

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

 

So, basically, the vast majority of Mexicans coming across are drug-runners, criminals, and rapists, but there might be a few good people in there.

 

How is that not bigoted, fear-mongering hyperbole?

Quote:Well, if the point is that bigoted hyperbole is justified because it opens up a necessary dialogue. It does not exonerate Trump from criticism. He deserves no praise. His "poor choice of words" were a prime example of fear mongering bigotry.

 

Is it bigoted hyperbole to point out the truth?  There is enough substantive information to back up what he said. 

 

I fail to see where anyone is actually praising Trump.  I do see that people are actually talking about the issues because of Trump.  He was vilified right up to the point where an illegal deported multiple times decided to murder a citizen in a sanctuary city.  Is it racist or bigoted to talk about that?  Is that fear mongering? 

 

Rather than accept the fact that he may have been right, it's a necessity for liberals to label Trump because that's what they do.  Without identity politics, they are powerless.  Identity politics allows them to bully people into submission by threatening them with some negative label.

Quote:“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

 

So, basically, the vast majority of Mexicans coming across are drug-runners, criminals, and rapists, but there might be a few good people in there.

 

How is that not bigoted, fear-mongering hyperbole?

 

Which part of that do you refute?

 

That last sentence I didn't highlight is the one liberals have latched on to like a pit bull because they simply can't debunk anything else he said in that quoted piece you provided.  The facts back him up.  So, they must focus on what more than likely was just a poorly worded afterthought. 

 

And let's talk about bigoted fear mongering, shall we?

 

Democrats get weak in the knees and froth at the bit like rabid dogs any time you suggest voters have some form of government issued ID in order to cast a ballot.  They go so far as to tell minorities that his is disenfranchising them, and that it's racist to expect them to have an ID. 

 

Obama and his fellow socialists used fear tactics throughout the healthcare debate. 

 

Obama and his fellow socialists have used fear tactics and intimidation in pushing just about every big issue they've decided to embrace.  If you disagree with "The One" you're labeled a racist.  It's impossible to disagree with Obama on any policy otherwise. 

Quote:Which part of that do you refute?

The words are technically gray enough that someone so inclined could defend them. The message, though, that most Mexicans coming across are degenerate scum, is patently false and borderline racist. Most (and I'd wager a heavy majority of) Mexicans coming across, even those being guided across by cartel coyotes, are in America for work, not to climb in yo' windows, snatch yo' people up and try to rape them.

Quote:Which part of that do you refute?

 

The "vast majority" part.

The FBI report cited in the article linked by FBT was a study of gang activity in the U.S. In a country of 350 million there are an estimated 1.4 million gang members. In one section of the report it said 80% of the gangs in the southwest U.S. were illegal immigrants. Do the math. Out of 11 million illegal immigrants, how many are in the southwest and gang members committing murder and rape?

 

Well, the report did not even try to put a number on it, yet the article's author used it to justify Trump's remarks.

 

There's a big difference between "some" and "majority".

Quote:The words are technically gray enough that someone so inclined could defend them. The message, though, that most Mexicans coming across are degenerate scum, is patently false and borderline racist. Most (and I'd wager a heavy majority of) Mexicans coming across, even those being guided across by cartel coyotes, are in America for work, not to climb in yo' windows, snatch yo' people up and try to rape them.

 

 

Quote:The "vast majority" part.

 

OK, I can agree with the "vast majority" and the "most" arguments that you two pose.  I would not say that it is "bigoted" or "fear mongering" though.  As FBT said earlier, Trump used a poor choice of words to get his point across.

 

However, rather than cherry pick part of a statement and then scream "racism" or "bigoted" or "fear mongering" does not address a very real and true message that he is trying to get across.  Many (not all) of illegals that come across our southern border are criminals and continue their criminal ways in our society.  That FACT can not be disputed.

Quote:The FBI report cited in the article linked by FBT was a study of gang activity in the U.S. In a country of 350 million there are an estimated 1.4 million gang members. In one section of the report it said 80% of the gangs in the southwest U.S. were illegal immigrants. Do the math. Out of 11 million illegal immigrants, how many are in the southwest and gang members committing murder and rape?

 

Well, the report did not even try to put a number on it, yet the article's author used it to justify Trump's remarks.

 

There's a big difference between "some" and "majority".

 

Let me ask you this.  Is the problem of gangs a real problem that should be addressed?

 

Is the fact that many of the most violent gangs are made up of illegal aliens a concern?

 

What about crimes not committed by gang members, but committed by illegal aliens?  It doesn't necessarily have to be a violent crime as in a shooting, a rape or something like that.  What about the drunk illegal alien that kills others while driving drunk?  Should that not be addressed?  Is confronting the problem "racist", "bigoted" or "fear mongering"?

Quote:The words are technically gray enough that someone so inclined could defend them. The message, though, that most Mexicans coming across are degenerate scum, is patently false and borderline racist. Most (and I'd wager a heavy majority of) Mexicans coming across, even those being guided across by cartel coyotes, are in America for work, not to climb in yo' windows, snatch yo' people up and try to rape them.

 

So, in other words, to answer my question, none of it.  Thanks. 

 

Quote:The "vast majority" part.

 

Trump didn't use that term, RJ.  TJBender did.  So, there's that. 

 

Trump's actual quote:

 

Quote:<i>“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”</i>

 

Label Trump any way you wish.  Personally, I think the guy has plenty of flaws.  I don't see him as bigoted or being a racist based on these comments.  Not trained in the art of speaking politically correct in order to avoid offending the sensitivities of liberals?  Absolutely.