Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:I think you pass on Williams because the pass rusher is a top need, while interior dline is not.

Stud pass rushers will be harder to find later in the draft.

Good interior Dline should be available in any round.

 

Just my thought process on it.

 

Fowler in round 1 

and any DT later in the draft, round 2-5

is a better combo than 

Williams in the first and a pass rushing DE/OLB tweener "LEO" later

And Fowler is the guaranteed great pass rusher out of the 5?


Williams is the best prospect coming out. Williams in the first and Harold in the 2nd is better than anything involving Fowler at 3.


If Williams is there, Dave is pulling the trigger and locking him in for the next 10 years.

This is my ideal first three picks for our team this year if we can't trade down.

 

1. Amari Cooper - WR - Need points on the board. Not a pass rusher. Cooper is smooth, polished, snags just about everything that's within his radius and he's been consistent in a stout conference. He reminds me of Jordy Nelson with just a bit more speed down the stretch.

 

2. Jay Ajayi - RB - Need a running game. Gordon and Gurley will be gone by the time we're on the clock. This kid is respectable though and is a multipurpose and every down back.

 

3. Hau'Oli Kikaha - OLB - Excellent OLB off the edge for Washington last year. Just a nightmare last year all over the field. Racked up 19 sacks, 66 tackles, forced three fumbles, had over 20 tackle behind the line. Just a natural pass rusher. I think Bradley could move him around a bit and get a lot of out of him early on as a rookie. Every analyst is saying he's undersized at 6'2 253 when they're clamoring for us to take Fowler Jr. in RD1 and he's just an inch taller at 6'3 and about 10 pounds heavier. A few months and Kikaha will have the weight on him.

Quote:Using the same draft boards, assume the Eagles give up Pick 19 (trade of Bradford to Browns) Pick 20 and Pick 84 (Rd 3) plus 2016 Rd 2 selection.

 

Who do the Jags take?

 

Interesting scenario. Using draftsite's board here goes.

 

Round 1 (19) Todd Gurley RB- He's the most talented back to come out in a while. Would take some pressure off Bortles.

 

Round 1 (20) Devante Parker WR- Here is our true #1 WR. Another weapon for Bortles to grow with.

 

Round 2 Eli Harold DE- Future LEO

 

Round 3 (67) Cody Prewitt FS- Immediate starter over Josh Evans.

 

Round 3 (84) Clive Walford TE- Look at that, another weapon for Bortles. Allows for 2 TE sets with both being threats down the field.

 

Round 4 PJ Williams CB- Late 1st, early 2nd round talent in the 4th round due to his off the field issue. Worth the risk.

 

Round 5 Ali Marpet G- Interior line depth.

 

Round 6 Lynden Trail DE - Raw, athletic pass rusher that will need some time to develop.

 

Round 7 Davis Tull OTTO- Depth behind Skuta.

My favorite scenario has the two QBs going 1 and 2 with Leonard Williams on the board. The Raiders call and offer Pick 4 and 68 to move up one spot and allow the Raiders to have Williams. My dream draft would be as follows:

 

Rd 1(4): Dante Fowler - DE - Florida

Rd 2(36): Maxx Williams - TE - Minnesota

Rd 3(67): Jay Ajayi - RB - Boise State

Rd 3(68): Cody Prewitt - FS - Mississippi

TRADE Marcedes Lewis and Pick 103 for Pick 90 to the Ravens

Rd 3(90): Tyler Lockett - Slot WR - Kansas State

Rd 5(139): Xavier Williams - DT - Northern Iowa

Rd 6(179): Jarvis Harrison - OLG - Texas A&M

Rd 7(220): Kyle Emanuel - Otto LB - North Dakota State

I would be pleased with Stigma's dream scenario with one exception. Not crazy about Prewitt at safety. I would prefer Derron Smith at that point, but can't say I'm convinced that Smith is the answer at safety either. Byron Jones would be my ideal 2nd rounder, but doubt he'll make it out of the first. Especially like the trade of Lewis to snag Lockett in the 3rd. Lockett, Ajayi and Williams would be great additions to the offense. Defenses would certainly have trouble stopping the combination of Thomas and Williams when both are on the field. Would be best combo since Gronkowski and Hernandez.

In this scenario, the Bears trade Cutler to the Titans to swap first round picks (plus other later round picks from Chicago).  There are a couple of other trades, including the Jags trading their round 2 pick to the Saints for the Saints round 2 and one of their round 3 picks.

 

1. TAM – QB Jameis Winston
   
   
   
2. CHI – QB Marcus Mariota (from TEN)
   
   
   
3. JAC  - DT Leonard Williams
   
   
   
4. OAK – WR Kevin White
   
   
   
5. WAS – OLB Dante Fowler Jr
   
   
   
6. NYJ –  OLB Vic Beasley
   
   
   
7. TEN – WR Amari Cooper (from Chi)
   
   
   
8. ATL – DE Shane Ray
   
   
   
9. NYG- SS Landon Collins
   
   
   
10. STL – OT Brandon Scherff
    
    
    
11. MIN – RB Todd Gurley
    
    
    
12. CLE- WR Devante Parker
    
    
    
13. N.O. – NT Danny Shelton
    
    
    
14. MIA – CB Trae Waynes
    
    
    
15. S.F. – OT/OG La’el Collins
    
    
    
16. HOU – OLB Bud Dupree
    
    
    
17. S.D. – RB Melvin Gordon
    
    
    
18. K.C. – WR Dorial Green-Beckham
    
    
    
19. CLE –  DT Malcolm Brown
    
    
    
20. PHI – DT Arik Armstead
    
    
    
21. CIN - OT Andrus Peat
    
    
    
22. PIT – OLB Randy Gregory
    
    
    
23. DET – OT Ereck Flowers
    
    
    
24. ARI – CB Marcus Peters
    
    
    
25. CAR – OT D.J. Humphries
    
    
    
26. BAL – WR Breshad Perriman
    
    
    
27. DAL – DT Eddie Goldman
    
    
    
28. DEN – OT T.J. Clemmings
    
    
    
29. TAM – OT/C Cameron Irving (from IND)
    
    
    
30. G.B. – ILB Eric Kendricks
    
    
    
31. N.O. – DE/OLB Owamagbe Odighizuwa
    
    
    
32. N.E. – WR Jaelen Strong
    
    
    
33. TEN – OT Jake Fisher
    
    
    
34. IND -  CB/FS Byron Jones (from TAM)
    
    
    
35. OAK – DE Preston Smith
    
    
    
36. N.O.  – TE Maxx Williams (from JAC)
    
    
    
37. NYJ – RB Ameer Abullah
    
    
    
38. WAS – OT Donovan Smith
    
    
    
39. CHI – CB Kevin Johnson
    
    
    
40. NYG – OLB Shaq Thompson
    
    
    
41. STL – WR Nelson Agholor
    
    
    
42. ATL – RB Jay Ajayi
    
    
    
43. S.D.  – QB Brett Hundley (from CLE)
    
    
    
44. JAC –  LEO Eli Harold (from N.O.)
    
    
    
45. MIN – OG A. J Cann
    
    
    
46. S.F.  – ILB Benardrick McKinney
    
    
    
47. MIA – WR Phillip Dorsett
    
    
    
48. CLE – TE Clive Warford (from S.D.)
    
    
    
49. K.C. – DT Carl Davis
    
    
    
50. BUF – ILB Paul Dawson
    
    
    
51. HOU – WR/TE Devin Funchess
    
    
    
52. PHI – OG Laken Tomlinson
    
    
    
53. CIN – DT Jordan Phillips
    
    
    
54. DET – CB/FS Eric Rowe
    
    
    
55. ARI – DT Xavier Cooper
    
    
    
56. PIT – CB Quinten Rollins
    
    
    
57. CAR – WR Sammie Coates
    
    
    
58. BAL – OLB Danielle Hunter
    
    
    
59. DEN – ILB Denzel Perryman
    
    
    
60. DAL – RB Tevin Coleman
    
    
    
61. IND –  ILB Stephone Anthony
    
    
    
62. G.B. – DE/OLB Nate Orchard
    
    
    
63. SEA – C Reese Dismukes
    
    
    
64. N.E. – DE Mario Edwards Jr
    
    
    

Jags Round 3:



WR/KR Tyler Lockett



RB Jeremy Langford or T.J. Yeldon or Buck Allen



 

So the Jags miss out on getting the LEO we need in the 1st, but get the best player in the draft that we don't really "need".  Then in the 2nd, we get a LEO in Eli Harold. (I doubt Harold lasts this long, but in this mock he did.)  In the 3rd, with an extra pick, we are able to get a dynamic slot WR/KR in Lockett, and a good RB in Yeldon or the underrated Langford or Allen.

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Trade pick #3 to the Browns for picks #12, #19, and pick #77

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 1(12): Shane Ray - LEO  

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 1(19): Todd Gurley - RB

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 2(36): Dorial Green-Beckham - WR

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 3(67): <b>Eric Rowe </b>- CB/FS 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 3(77):<b> Paul Dawson</b> - MLB

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 4(103): Cedric Ogbuehi - OT/OG

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 5(139): Xavier Williams - DT

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 6(179): Jamil Douglas - OG

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 7(220): Nick Boyle - TE

Quote:And Fowler is the guaranteed great pass rusher out of the 5?


Williams is the best prospect coming out. Williams in the first and Harold in the 2nd is better than anything involving Fowler at 3.


If Williams is there, Dave is pulling the trigger and locking him in for the next 10 years.

I don't pretend to actually know any more than any of you.

But I do know I trust Mayock's view over some of the likes of Kiper Jr and McShay.

 

Mayock has Fowler as his best player behind the QBs.

 

I have no doubt Williams will be good. He may be the safest pick in the draft.

But at this point, if I am GM... I take Fowler if he is there, and settle for a trade or Williams if Fowler is gone.

 

If you and others disagree and think it is best to take the perceived safe pick and hope a later round talent can fill the pass rushing need we haven't really filled since before 08....

 

fine.

 

Fowler is a beast. And if he busts, well, then he busts. But there are no guarantees in any of this. Beasley could bust, Gregory could bust.

I take that chance... With a QB in place, and seemingly not going OL in the first round... I say, take a swing.

 

I won't fault Caldwell for missing if he does. He's done so well in the mid rounds, he deserves a big swing. He doesn't have to trade up to do. And it address need and matches BAP very close, depending on the board.

 

While Williams can play multiple Dline positions, Fowler is able to play LEO and OTTO. His diversity adds value in my eyes. 

After the top pass rushers in round 1 go... I'd rather not be searching for a LEO later. 

Quote:I don't pretend to actually know any more than any of you.

But I do know I trust Mayock's view over some of the likes of Kiper Jr and McShay.


Mayock has Fowler as his best player behind the QBs.


I have no doubt Williams will be good. He may be the safest pick in the draft.

But at this point, if I am GM... I take Fowler if he is there, and settle for a trade or Williams if Fowler is gone.


If you and others disagree and think it is best to take the perceived safe pick and hope a later round talent can fill the pass rushing need we haven't really filled since before 08....


fine.


Fowler is a beast. And if he busts, well, then he busts. But there are no guarantees in any of this. Beasley could bust, Gregory could bust.

I take that chance... With a QB in place, and seemingly not going OL in the first round... I say, take a swing.


I won't fault Caldwell for missing if he does. He's done so well in the mid rounds, he deserves a big swing. He doesn't have to trade up to do. And it address need and matches BAP very close, depending on the board.


While Williams can play multiple Dline positions, Fowler is able to play LEO and OTTO. His diversity adds value in my eyes.

After the top pass rushers in round 1 go... I'd rather not be searching for a LEO later.

I don't mind your opinion, I just hope you don't base it off what Mike Mayock has to say. He's certainly been wrong before (he LOVED the Alualu pick) and Fowler has some question marks. Although Fowler had a ton of pressures, 15 sacks in 3 years at the NCAA level doesn't scream pass rushing beast in the NFL to me. He doesn't jump off the chart athletically, and I don't see any consistently elite traits in him. I'm no expert, though. That's 4 sure.


While I like Vic Beasley at 3, I wouldn't mind at all if your sig plays out and we get Williams.

Quote:I don't pretend to actually know any more than any of you.

But I do know I trust Mayock's view over some of the likes of Kiper Jr and McShay.


Mayock has Fowler as his best player behind the QBs.


I have no doubt Williams will be good. He may be the safest pick in the draft.

But at this point, if I am GM... I take Fowler if he is there, and settle for a trade or Williams if Fowler is gone.


If you and others disagree and think it is best to take the perceived safe pick and hope a later round talent can fill the pass rushing need we haven't really filled since before 08....


fine.


Fowler is a beast. And if he busts, well, then he busts. But there are no guarantees in any of this. Beasley could bust, Gregory could bust.

I take that chance... With a QB in place, and seemingly not going OL in the first round... I say, take a swing.


I won't fault Caldwell for missing if he does. He's done so well in the mid rounds, he deserves a big swing. He doesn't have to trade up to do. And it address need and matches BAP very close, depending on the board.


While Williams can play multiple Dline positions, Fowler is able to play LEO and OTTO. His diversity adds value in my eyes.

After the top pass rushers in round 1 go... I'd rather not be searching for a LEO later.

Trusting Mayock is your first problem.


He puts things out there just to get hits (like Mariota over Winston). Williams is widely regarded as the best prospect in this whole class by a ton of people.

Quote:Trusting Mayock is your first problem.


He puts things out there just to get hits (like Mariota over Winston). Williams is widely regarded as the best prospect in this whole class by a ton of people.

I said I trusted Mayock over Kiper and McShay...

 

but we're splitting hairs...

 

I don't doubt Williams' talent. He may even very well be the safest pick.

I still prefer rolling the dice on Fowler, who could be a force even as a rookie.

 

His sack numbers aren't staggering... but as opposed to a traditional DE, Fowler dropped into coverage fairly often.

Quote:I said I trusted Mayock over Kiper and McShay...

 

but we're splitting hairs...

 

I don't doubt Williams' talent. He may even very well be the safest pick.

I still prefer rolling the dice on Fowler, who could be a force even as a rookie.

 

His sack numbers aren't staggering... but as opposed to a traditional DE, Fowler dropped into coverage fairly often.

I totally get what you're saying with Fowler. If we got him, I wouldn't be too upset because he does have upside.


Williams is most likely the safest and offers tremendous upside. Passing on the best player in the draft is what got us in trouble in the first place. Unless it's the QB, you should take the best player that's available. We need superstar players on this team. There are no guarantees that Marks will come back the same. Williams will make everyone around him better.

Quote:I totally get what you're saying with Fowler. If we got him, I wouldn't be too upset because he does have upside.


Williams is most likely the safest and offers tremendous upside. Passing on the best player in the draft is what got us in trouble in the first place. Unless it's the QB, you should take the best player that's available. We need superstar players on this team. There are no guarantees that Marks will come back the same. Williams will make everyone around him better.

Maybe they are both great, maybe they both bust.

BUT

Is Williams going to be Suh or Marcell Dareus?

If you can without a doubt say yes, then maybe he really is the best choice at 3.

 

But if not... then Fowler has the potential to be the "next big pass rusher"

He could be our JJ Watt. He could be our Justin Houston...

JPP, Miller, Williams...... Sack monsters.

I can't say he for sure will be one of those guys... but the potential is there. With the safe pick... it's just ho-hum for me.

 

The best DT in the league last year (in terms of sacks) was Dareus. Suh, McCoy, and Aaron Donald are really good DTs but stats wise, very comparable to our own Marks.

Do we really want to use the 3rd overall pick on a DT?

Quote: 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Trade pick #3 to the Browns for picks #12, #19, and pick #77

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 1(12): Shane Ray - LEO  

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 1(19): Todd Gurley - RB

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 2(36): Dorial Green-Beckham - WR

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 3(67): <b>Eric Rowe </b>- CB/FS 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 3(77):<b> Paul Dawson</b> - MLB

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 4(103): Cedric Ogbuehi - OT/OG

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 5(139): Xavier Williams - DT

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 6(179): Jamil Douglas - OG

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Rd 7(220): Nick Boyle - TE

 

 

That would be quite a haul. Ray, Gurley, DBG, Rowe, Dawson, and Ogbeuhi are all starting level caliber players (once Gurley and Ogbeuhi heal). 

Quote:That would be quite a haul. Ray, Gurley, DBG, Rowe, Dawson, and Ogbeuhi are all starting level caliber players (once Gurley and Ogbeuhi heal).

The all "here's hoping" team

Quote:The all "here's hoping" team

 

Hope springs eternal at this point.

Rd 1 - Leonard Williams (best player in the draft.)


Rd 2 - Gordon/gurley (if one of these guys is there, immediate upgrade)


Rd 3 - Bernardrick McKinney (stock is falling but would be a stud replacing poz.)


Rd 3 - Davis Tull (potentially a steal for the Leo position)


Rd 4 - Cody Prewitt (stock is also falling due to combine but would be an upgrade and playmaker.)


Rd 5 - best offensive lineman? (Doesn't necessarily need to be forced but if there is a big man with good value, you can never have enough.


Rd 6 - Lynden Trail (could he make it as a Leo in time? With Clemons, branch, and Davis still here, that could give the coaches time to find out. Will he be a tight end? Worst case scenario is you have a really gifted athelete on the team with a lot of room to grow for low cost.)


Rd 7 - .... Way too hard to try and guess

Quote:That would be quite a haul. Ray, Gurley, DBG, Rowe, Dawson, and Ogbeuhi are all starting level caliber players (once Gurley and Ogbeuhi heal). 

 

Ogbuehi would be 2015's Aaron Colvin. Especially on a team that is unlikely to make the playoffs, I'm all for taking a 2nd round talent in round 4 and letting him PUP it until week 10.

 

I realize it's not likely ALL of those guys are available at those spots, but I can dream.

Quote:Ogbuehi would be 2015's Aaron Colvin. Especially on a team that is unlikely to make the playoffs, I'm all for taking a 2nd round talent in round 4 and letting him PUP it until week 10.


I realize it's not likely ALL of those guys are available at those spots, but I can dream.

If he lasts that long it'd be a good pickup. I suspect he will be gone long before then though.

I've been thinking that if Mariota falls to #3 (Winston, Williams go 1 and 2 respectively), the Jets are the team most likely to trade up. It wouldn't cost them too much to do so compared to a team such as the Browns or the Eagles. As for the Jags we can still get an elite player at 6.

 

Jets get #3 overall

Jags get #6 overall, #37 overall, and #104 overall

 

Winton, Williams, Mariota, Cooper/White, Beasley go 1-5.

 

1 (6) Dante Fowler LEO

2 (36) Dorial Green Beckam WR

2 (37) Duke Johnson RB

3 (67) Clive Walford TE

4 (103) Kurtis Drummod FS

4 (104) Taiwan Jones MLB

5 (139) Andy Gallik OC

6 (180) Robert Myers OT

7 (220) Davis Tull OTTO