Quote:I think I understand what you are saying. So you think that everyone should pay a fixed amount of their income based on a percentage regardless of how much income that they make. Am I understanding you correctly?
As an example, and individual should pay say 23% of their income in taxes regardless if they make $30,000.00 per year or $150,000.00 per year?
Considering the bottom end of that income bracket pays little or no income taxes while the high end of the spectrum pays almost all of it, you'd have an uprising from those "champions" for the poor and middle class at daring to suggest everyone pay a set percentage.
Even the Fair Tax detractors will call it an unfair burden on the poor despite the fact it's really not.
The problem with the Fair Tax or other concepts similar to it is the fact that it would pretty much eliminate a federal bureaucracy that's not going to go anywhere. The IRS power has grown and expanded over the past several years, and now incorporates managing the entire healthcare system thanks to the ACA. There's no way to disband that, and you you'll never get the necessary support to abolish the IRS in congress. It's a shame, but there just aren't enough supporters of that movement in positions that matter to make it work.
Quote:Wow, so the Democratic party is liberal, moderate, AND conservative! This sounds like the party for me! Tell me more!
With a few exceptions in the house and senate the democratic party isn't liberal. They're pretty moderate, and by the standards of mid 20th century they'd be considered conservative.
If you really look at what the democrats actually do and think crazy liberal then you're just miscalibrating what liberal actually is.
Quote:All of the talk earlier about inflation got me thinking. Using a few real world measures I wanted to see what the actual rate was.
First I checked gasoline, but depending on when you take your measurements you can get some vastly different stats. For example, if we use early 2004 until current day (about 10 years) we get about 4.5% inflation on the cost of gas over that time, but if we choose early 2005, the rate comes out under 3%, as there was a massive gas price spike in late 2004. Going by only the last few years the price has actually deflated slightly since 2011, but if you choose mid 2009 as your baseline (massive price trough) then it looks like there has been massive inflation on the level of 10% or so.
Going with something more durable, the MSRP of a Honda civic from 2004 to 2014 inflation comes in at about 3.3%.
The inflation on a bushel of wheat is about 6% over the last 10 years, of course most of the inflation in that occurred during Bush's time in office and the price has been much more flat over the last few years of Obama's administration.
If you're curious about how to find these numbers yourself the formula is pretty simple, inflation = ln*(current price/starting price)/time period, and you can look up the values of these items and commodities on the internet.
You can massage numbers to say anything, that's why government loves statistics. There is no denying the cost of living has rising significantly in the last decade. That increase is called inflation, your 30k wage today isn't worth nearly as much as it was in 2000.
Quote:With a few exceptions in the house and senate the democratic party isn't liberal. They're pretty moderate, and by the standards of mid 20th century they'd be considered conservative.
If you really look at what the democrats actually do and think crazy liberal then you're just miscalibrating what liberal actually is.
Wait. Let me put my wading boots on before I reread this load of bovine excrement again.
The democrat party leadership, which includes party leadership and elected leaders has been trending more and more to the left for years now. What you're attempting to do here is redefine what the middle is to imply what is leftist is actually centrist now, and that's complete garbage. But you feel free to keep swimming in the KoolAid you've been spoon fed if it makes you feel superior.
Quote:You can massage numbers to say anything, that's why government loves statistics. There is no denying the cost of living has rising significantly in the last decade. That increase is called inflation, your 30k wage today isn't worth nearly as much as it was in 2000.
Sure, that's correct, you can look at any period of time and witness this phenomena. The real questions are what is the actual inflation currently, and what is causing it.
When you look at pricing statistics the current levels are historically mild with the real spikes coming before QE.
Quote:With a few exceptions in the house and senate the democratic party isn't liberal. They're pretty moderate, and by the standards of mid 20th century they'd be considered conservative.
If you really look at what the democrats actually do and think crazy liberal then you're just miscalibrating what liberal actually is.
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the Democartic party has lead the charge on socializing medicine, subsidizing 30% off the housing market, and is pushing for radical legislation such as carbon taxes, alternative minimum tax, capital gains tax, and much more but you want us to believe it's a moderate party?
Quote:Wait. Let me put my wading boots on before I reread this load of bovine excrement again.
The democrat party leadership, which includes party leadership and elected leaders has been trending more and more to the left for years now. What you're attempting to do here is redefine what the middle is to imply what is leftist is actually centrist now, and that's complete garbage. But you feel free to keep swimming in the KoolAid you've been spoon fed if it makes you feel superior.
Junior, I know that you have a belief that you want to be true, and it's hard to overcome desire with rationalization. Here's a chart of the political leanings of the senators from the democratic states.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/usstates...v=on&wi=on
Please note that they're all firmly on the conservative side of the board.
Here are the candidates in the 2012 presidential election.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012
Please note that Obama is almost as far right as Romney.
Quote:Sure, that's correct, you can look at any period of time and witness this phenomena. The real questions are what is the actual inflation currently, and what is causing it.
When you look at pricing statistics the current levels are historically mild with the real spikes coming before QE.
QE is a stalling tactic, it's imaginary money used to free up real money and then poured into the market. The pains of QE are slow and long lasting, it's a slow bleed that kills.
Quote:QE is a stalling tactic, it's imaginary money used to free up real money and then poured into the market. The pains of QE are slow and long lasting, it's a slow bleed that kills.
QE is just bank liquidity.
Do you understand how fractional reserve banking works?
Quote:Considering the bottom end of that income bracket pays little or no income taxes while the high end of the spectrum pays almost all of it, you'd have an uprising from those "champions" for the poor and middle class at daring to suggest everyone pay a set percentage.
Even the Fair Tax detractors will call it an unfair burden on the poor despite the fact it's really not.
The problem with the Fair Tax or other concepts similar to it is the fact that it would pretty much eliminate a federal bureaucracy that's not going to go anywhere. The IRS power has grown and expanded over the past several years, and now incorporates managing the entire healthcare system thanks to the ACA. There's no way to disband that, and you you'll never get the necessary support to abolish the IRS in congress. It's a shame, but there just aren't enough supporters of that movement in positions that matter to make it work.
There's more support today than a few years ago, nothing happens over night. But as the economy gets worse and taxes inevitable increase with inflation people will begin to look for an alternative. The Fair Tax is a possibility, certainly not the only one but on a national level it's the only one with any kind of ground game today.
Reforming the tax code will do nothing, we must replace the tax code.
Quote:QE is just bank liquidity.
Do you understand how fractional reserve banking works?
very much we've been over this. Me and you disagree with the consequences of QE.
Quote:Junior, I know that you have a belief that you want to be true, and it's hard to overcome desire with rationalization. Here's a chart of the political leanings of the senators from the democratic states.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/usstates...v=on&wi=on
Please note that they're all firmly on the conservative side of the board.
Here are the candidates in the 2012 presidential election.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012
Please note that Obama is almost as far right as Romney.
That chart is just laughable. Obama and Romney right leaning, oh man that's rich.
Quote:very much we've been over this. Me and you disagree with the consequences of QE.
Well we can look at what's actually happening in the market to see QE's impact. There literally hasn't been a discernible impact.
If you think QE is actually a problem then where does fractional reserve banking come into it? It's literally making money out of nothing at all. QE is just the reserve bank buying securities before maturation to allow liquidity in the banking system.
Quote: That chart is just laughable. Obama and Romney right leaning, oh man that's rich.
The problem is people don't even understand what moderate or liberal mean any longer.
Compared to the rest of the world we're a raving psycho-ward of right leaning lunatics.
Quote:Junior, I know that you have a belief that you want to be true, and it's hard to overcome desire with rationalization. Here's a chart of the political leanings of the senators from the democratic states.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/usstates...v=on&wi=on
Please note that they're all firmly on the conservative side of the board.
Here are the candidates in the 2012 presidential election.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012
Please note that Obama is almost as far right as Romney.
Sorry, but what you're basically trying to sell her is nonsense that everything has moved to the left. Just because Romney and Obama are similar in many ways doesn't mean the democrats have moved to the center. It means the idiots running the republican party have allowed the party to be controlled by RINOs who are pulling the party to the left. To imply that 0bama is in any way, shape, or form as philosophically conservative as Reagan is a complete load of garbage.
When a liberal says they want more moderates, all that means is republicans must move left to agree with them. You never see the same call for the nut jobs on the left being pulled to the true middle. It's always the other way around, and then democrats like you move the stakes for what is defined as the middle in order to continue to push liberal agendas.
I know this bothers you since you're such a thin skinned whiner, but the truth is the truth. The only reason the two parties are so "similar" is because the GOP has been run by democrats in republican clothing for years now.
Quote:Well we can look at what's actually happening in the market to see QE's impact. There literally hasn't been a discernible impact.
If you think QE is actually a problem then where does fractional reserve banking come into it? It's literally making money out of nothing at all. QE is just the reserve bank buying securities before maturation to allow liquidity in the banking system.
The problem comes when QE stops, you can't use pretend money to buy securities forever without consequences.
Quote:There's more support today than a few years ago, nothing happens over night. But as the economy gets worse and taxes inevitable increase with inflation people will begin to look for an alternative. The Fair Tax is a possibility, certainly not the only one but on a national level it's the only one with any kind of ground game today.
Reforming the tax code will do nothing, we must replace the tax code.
We won't see a fair tax type program implemented in our lifetime. Book it. Any sort of consumption tax that might be incorporated into the structure will be just that. Another method of generating more income for a cash strapped government in addition to the income tax.
Quote:The problem is people don't even understand what moderate or liberal mean any longer.
Compared to the rest of the world we're a raving psycho-ward of right leaning lunatics.
Of course, most of the rest of the world doesn't recognize an individuals right to bear arms, most of the world is in some form of socialism. I'm not looking to join the rest of the world.
Quote:Junior, I know that you have a belief that you want to be true, and it's hard to overcome desire with rationalization. Here's a chart of the political leanings of the senators from the democratic states.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/usstates...v=on&wi=on
Please note that they're all firmly on the conservative side of the board.
Here are the candidates in the 2012 presidential election.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012
Please note that Obama is almost as far right as Romney.
Wow. I can't believe we've all been so blind. I never knew that Chuck Schumer and Al Franken are actually conservatives.
Strange how the Democratic party would attack themselves for being conservative.
Quote:We won't see a fair tax type program implemented in our lifetime. Book it. Any sort of consumption tax that might be incorporated into the structure will be just that. Another method of generating more income for a cash strapped government in addition to the income tax.
If they try to implement a consumption tax in addition to a production tax people would riot. I know I would at least.......