Quote:Big mega corporations that have bought up the business only exist in industries with heavy regulation, think about it. Cable, Power, Phone and Retail are the big mega corporations, they all receive support from the government allowing them to play by a different set of rules.
You don't have one big mega lawn service buying out all the little guys, there's not one big mega dealership shutting down all the other car dealers, there's tons of industry where competition drives wages up and prices down every day.
there were monopolies that brought about regulations in the past. Oil, Rail? It's just different now because our congress allows its members to accept legal bribes in exchange for the corporations to write their own "regulations" I know we agree on that. But I don't think it's accurate that monopolies only exist but of gov involvement. We still have them, they are just legal now. I hope its clear I'm using monopolies general.
Quote:Who said anything about paying it off? :mellow:
On a more serious note there's two possibilities, either increasing taxes significantly (and there's room for it, regardless of what republicans will scream) or simply "printing money".
I'm not worried about the latter possibility because if it came to that then the currency would already have been deemed worthless by the rest of the world before we actually even undertook such action.
There are 0 possibilities. The dollar will collapse and its just a matter of whether we want to bite the bullet or we want our children or grandchildren to bite the bullet.
The current debt is almost 18 trillion. There is only like 11 trillion dollars in the entire world. There is only like 2 trillion in non-electronic currency. Raising taxes isn't even a drop in the bucket. Even at the lowest interest rates we've ever paid at 2.4% we're paying $500 billion IN INTEREST ALONE per year. If we literally doubled the income tax and people were paying 60-70% of their paychecks into taxes, it would still take like 25 years to pay off the debt.
Quote:There are 0 possibilities. The dollar will collapse and its just a matter of whether we want to bite the bullet or we want our children or grandchildren to bite the bullet.
The current debt is almost 18 trillion. There is only like 11 trillion dollars in the entire world. There is only like 2 trillion in non-electronic currency. Raising taxes isn't even a drop in the bucket. Even at the lowest interest rates we've ever paid at 2.4% we're paying $500 billion IN INTEREST ALONE per year. If we literally doubled the income tax and people were paying 60-70% of their paychecks into taxes, it would still take like 25 years to pay off the debt.
The US GDP is around $17trillion/year.
The biggest problem we have is that corporations went from paying about a third of all the government tax income 60 years ago to currently paying less than 10%. Corporations need to be brought to task and made to shoulder their share.
Of course the idea that a 90%+ Debt/GDP ratio can't be paid off just shows you don't know your history. The USA already did it once around 70 years ago. The top marginal tax rate was 90%.
Quote:The US GDP is around $17trillion/year.
The biggest problem we have is that corporations went from paying about a third of all the government tax income 60 years ago to currently paying less than 10%. Corporations need to be brought to task and made to shoulder their share.
Of course the idea that a 90%+ Debt/GDP ratio can't be paid off just shows you don't know your history. The USA already did it once around 70 years ago. The top marginal tax rate was 90%.
The United States government currently makes 2.8 trillion per year in revenue. We're running at a deficit of 700 billion dollars per year. Income tax accounts for 1.3 trillion of the US government's revenue. Its not hard to do the math.
Quote:The United States government currently makes 2.8 trillion per year in revenue. We're running at a deficit of 700 billion dollars per year. Income tax accounts for 1.3 trillion of the US government's revenue. Its not hard to do the math.
Another trillion or so come from FICA, which is the regressive income tax that rich people don't have to pay. 10% comes from corporations.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3822
If Coporate income tax receipts were quadrupled to put their share back around 30-35% then we'd have a surplus and could start paying down the debt again.
Of course we could also eliminate the notion of capital gains and start charging them at the full income rate to pay down the debt even more quickly.
Quote:Okay, so what would they be hired to do?
Keep in mind that businesses don't pay taxes on the segment of income that goes out in payroll, so lowering taxes on them doesn't actually incentive them to hire.
Also keep in mind that people on the lower end of the income scale already have a nonexistent or negative income tax rate and only people making a decent amount of money to start with would have a notable increase in income by lowering income taxes, and people of higher means have a lower propensity to spend additional marginal income.
So, what does lowering already low tax rates accomplish for the economy other than lowering government tax receipts?
You're aware that business matches employee payroll taxes right? If I hire a guy and pay him $700 a week, his tax deduction is $100 a week I'm matching that $100 so that employee cost me $800 a week and he's only seeing $600 on his check.
That alone prevents employers on the border of hiring help from adding another person to the payroll. Very few positions get filled for less than a take home pay of $600 a week. That's one way taxes DIRECTLY impact employment.
Quote:You're aware that business matches employee payroll taxes right? If I hire a guy and pay him $700 a week, his tax deduction is $100 a week I'm matching that $100 so that employee cost me $800 a week and he's only seeing $600 on his check.
That alone prevents employers on the border of hiring help from adding another person to the payroll. Very few positions get filled for less than a take home pay of $600 a week. That's one way taxes DIRECTLY impact employment.
You're talking about FICA taxes. Yes, that is a cost of doing business.
So you're saying you think we should defund SS and Medicare because you hope it might get a few more hires? Did you know they already tried that only a couple of years ago and it had almost no impact?
What drives hiring is market demand, not lower taxes, and market demand comes from the populace having money to spend on consumer level kitsch, not from it being concentrated with a few super wealthy people.
Quote:Another trillion or so come from FICA, which is the regressive income tax that rich people don't have to pay. 10% comes from corporations.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3822
If Coporate income tax receipts were quadrupled to put their share back around 30-35% then we'd have a surplus and could start paying down the debt again.
Of course we could also eliminate the notion of capital gains and start charging them at the full income rate to pay down the debt even more quickly.
Completely discounting what that would do to our economy by suddenly more than quadrupling corporate taxes, just operating in a surplus isn't enough. We're paying 500 billion dollars in interest payments as well... And thats at a low 2.4%... Imagine what happens if that number jumps to what it was during the Clinton era of 6-7%? You're talking 1.5-1.75 trillion dollars in interest payments alone. So you have to, at the very least, come up with 1.2 trillion dollars per year out of nowhere just to break even and hope that interest payments don't go up. So even with your plan we're still running at a deficit... We'd need to find another trillion per year just to pay it off by the time our grandchildren take over... and cross our fingers interest rates don't go up...
Quote:Completely discounting what that would do to our economy by suddenly more than quadrupling corporate taxes, just operating in a surplus isn't enough. We're paying 500 billion dollars in interest payments as well... And thats at a low 2.4%... Imagine what happens if that number jumps to what it was during the Clinton era of 6-7%? You're talking 1.5-1.75 trillion dollars in interest payments alone. So you have to, at the very least, come up with 1.2 trillion dollars per year out of nowhere just to break even and hope that interest payments don't go up. So even with your plan we're still running at a deficit... We'd need to find another trillion per year just to pay it off by the time our grandchildren take over... and cross our fingers interest rates don't go up...
Don't worry, there's 500 billion+ in military budget to pare down.
Also who said anything about quadrupling corporate tax rates? Just get rid of all the loop holes and start making them pay their actual rate. Apple, Google. MS, they all pay a tiny tax rate, they should be paying billions a year.
Like I said, going ahead and increasing the upper marginal tax rate to what it was under Eisenhower or Nixon isn't bad, either.
Also most of the money that the nation owes is actually to our own SS fund, did you know that? Why would the interest rate change? Once we're running a surplus we wouldn't be taking out new loans, and the interest rates don't change on old long term bonds, which is what the US debt is, bonds being held by various entities.
Oh, and by the way, that is all based on the notion that we could also balance the budget, which has been nearly impossible... decreasing spending increases has been like pulling teeth alone.
Quote:Oh, and by the way, that is all based on the notion that we could also balance the budget, which has been nearly impossible... decreasing spending increases has been like pulling teeth alone.
True, every time the republicans get into office the budget deficit goes out of control and the democratic administration following it takes years just to get it under control.
Bush1 to Clinton and Bush2 to Obama.
Funny that.
Quote:(reading comprehension problems)
The corporations are using loopholes and avoidance schemes. The rate isn't the problem, the republican congress's willingness to make corporations pay their share is the problem. We don't need to change the rate in order to change the receipts.
Quote:True, every time the republicans get into office the budget deficit goes out of control and the democratic administration following it takes years just to get it under control.
Bush1 to Clinton and Bush2 to Obama.
Funny that.
There's also the sequester last year that Obama said would shut the United States down if he didn't get his spending increases.
Quote:The corporations are using loopholes and avoidance schemes. The rate isn't the problem, the republican congress's willingness to make corporations pay their share is the problem. We don't need to change the rate in order to change the receipts.
I'm still not getting where you're coming up with roughly 2 trillion dollars from.
You said tax corporations another trillion dollars... To go along with you - fine.
Abolish the entire military and save another 500 billion. Ok, fine.
Where's the other 500 billion or so coming from, just to pay off the debt in the next 30 years?
We taxing corporations again for the rest?
You realize what 1/3 of our GDP going towards government spending/loans will look like?
PS: Better hope the U.S. doesn't have any kind of disaster in the next 30 years either. U.S. - 30 years, disaster free.
Quote:I'm still not getting where you're coming up with roughly 2 trillion dollars from.
You said tax corporations another trillion dollars... To go along with you - fine.
Abolish the entire military and save another 500 billion. Ok, fine.
Where's the other 500 billion or so coming from, just to pay off the debt in the next 30 years?
We taxing corporations again for the rest?
You realize what 1/3 of our GDP going towards government spending/loans will look like?
shhhh we just gotta tax the rich a little more that will fix everything........
Quote:True, every time the republicans get into office the budget deficit goes out of control and the democratic administration following it takes years just to get it under control.
Bush1 to Clinton and Bush2 to Obama.
Funny that.
Obama has been equally as bad as Bush in deficit spending. Worse when you look at the fact that ObamaCare really won't start beating us down until after Obama's out of office. We're on the hook for large deficit spending until at least 2020 unless ACA is repealed if nothing else is done to generate revenue.
Quote:I'm still not getting where you're coming up with roughly 2 trillion dollars from.
You said tax corporations another trillion dollars... To go along with you - fine.
Abolish the entire military and save another 500 billion. Ok, fine.
Where's the other 500 billion or so coming from, just to pay off the debt in the next 30 years?
We taxing corporations again for the rest?
You realize what 1/3 of our GDP going towards government spending/loans will look like?
PS: Better hope the U.S. doesn't have any kind of disaster in the next 30 years either. U.S. - 30 years, disaster free.
So, what, are you expecting that the economy doesn't grow at all over the next 30 years?
Quote:Obama has been equally as bad as Bush in deficit spending. Worse when you look at the fact that ObamaCare really won't start beating us down until after Obama's out of office. We're on the hook for large deficit spending until at least 2020 unless ACA is repealed if nothing else is done to generate revenue.
The difference is Bush started with a surplus left from Clinton and Obama started with a deficit higher than a trillion per year from Bush.
Quote:True, every time the republicans get into office the budget deficit goes out of control and the democratic administration following it takes years just to get it under control.
Bush1 to Clinton and Bush2 to Obama.
Funny that.
Just like Gabbert's going to blow up the league this year, am I right?