Quote:If you really believe that then maybe you should go see for yourself. I hear Greece is beautiful this time of year.
Believe it or not, we are no longer the shining beacon on the hill. People are doing it better than us in other countries. It's just a fact of life now.
Edit: <a class="bbc_url" href='http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index'>http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index</a>
We are ranked 17th currently.
Quote:Believe it or not, we are no longer the shining beacon on the hill. People are doing it better than us in other countries. It's just a fact of life now.
Edit: <a class="bbc_url" href='http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index'>http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index</a>
We are ranked 17th currently.
Youre late to the party. Its already been discussed previously.
Quote:Which usually tend to be less authoritarian and more libertarian.
Its your heavily socialist nations that are beginning to struggle.
You're too much, FA. Yes, it's the generous social welfare systems and strong union association laws that make a nation libertarian. Why are you so opposed to implementing such libertarian programs in the USA?
Quote:That's what lax tax collection will get a nation.
I'm more partial to the Scandinavian nations, myself.
well here's some information that might blow your mind;
Denmark Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption.
http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=denmark|unitedstates&src=ranking
Finland Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, fiscal freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption.
http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=finland|unitedstates&src=ranking
Iceland ranks a little lower than the US in most of these key indicators. It’s close, though. Remember also that Iceland has a smaller total population (320,000) than Wichita, KS.
Norway Ranks higher than the US in trade freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption.
Sweden Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption
Also remember Norway is backed by big oil and Switzerland as a safe haven or tax shelter. Also if you compare just about any of the Scandinavian nations to the United States their economies would all rank among the poorest states in capita per person. Scandinavia also has some of the highest cost of living in Europe while their people make less before and after taxes.
Quote:well here's some information that might blow your mind;
Denmark Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption. <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=denmark%7Cunitedstates&src=ranking'>http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=denmark|unitedstates&src=ranking</a>
Finland Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, fiscal freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption. <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=finland%7Cunitedstates&src=ranking'>http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=finland|unitedstates&src=ranking</a>
Iceland ranks a little lower than the US in most of these key indicators. It’s close, though. Remember also that Iceland has a smaller total population (320,000) than Wichita, KS.
Norway Ranks higher than the US in trade freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption.
Sweden Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption
Also remember Norway is backed by big oil and Switzerland as a safe haven or tax shelter. Also if you compare just about any of the Scandinavian nations to the United States their economies would all rank among the poorest states in capita per person. Scandinavia also has some of the highest cost of living in Europe while their people make less before and after taxes.
That website you are using is rife with misleading propaganda. It's a rightwing speakerbox.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/heritage-foundation'>http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/heritage-foundation</a>
Anyways, you are wrong about the quality of life in Scandanavia; it's literally the best in the world.
Quote:You're too much, FA. Yes, it's the generous social welfare systems and strong union association laws that make a nation libertarian. Why are you so opposed to implementing such libertarian programs in the USA?
Quote:well here's some information that might blow your mind;
Denmark Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption. http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=denmark|unitedstates&src=ranking
Finland Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, fiscal freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption. http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=finland|unitedstates&src=ranking
Iceland ranks a little lower than the US in most of these key indicators. It’s close, though. Remember also that Iceland has a smaller total population (320,000) than Wichita, KS.
Norway Ranks higher than the US in trade freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption.
Sweden Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption
Also remember Norway is backed by big oil and Switzerland as a safe haven or tax shelter. Also if you compare just about any of the Scandinavian nations to the United States their economies would all rank among the poorest states in capita per person. Scandinavia also has some of the highest cost of living in Europe while their people make less before and after taxes.
*Mind Blown*
Here's a link from an anarchist website which state which countries in the world they believe are the closest to their ideals.... Shocking which countries are at the very top.
http://www.anarchy.no/ija137.html
Countries:
Rank of country according to libertarian degree, and type of system
Libertarian degree and (authoritarian degree) %
Degree of socialism
and (capitalism) %
Degree of autonomy and
(statism) %
Gini-index
Norway
1 Anarchy
54,0 (46,0)
55,0 (45.0)
53,2 (46,8)
25,8
Switzerland
2 Anarchy
53,0 (47,0)
51,0 (49,0)
55,1 (44,9)
33,1
Iceland
3 Anarchy
52,0 (48,0)
54,0 (46,0)
50,1 (49,9)
25,0 (est.)
Liechtenstein
4 Soc.dem.
49,5 (50,5)
51,4 (48,6)
47,7 (52,3)
32,0 (est.)
Luxembourg
5 Soc.dem.
49,2 (50,8)
52,1 (47,9)
46,5 (53,5)
30,8
Denmark
6 Soc.dem.
48,8 (51,2)
55,3 (44,7)
43,0 (57,0)
24,7
Japan
7 Soc.dem.
48,5 (51,5)
55,2 (44,8)
42,6 (57,4)
24,9
Belgium
8 Soc.dem.
48,2 (51,8)
54,0 (46,0)
43,0 (57,0)
25,0
Finland
9 Soc.dem.
47,9 (52,1)
53,8 (46,2)
42,6 (57,4)
26,9
Sweden
10 Soc.dem.
47,5 (52,5)
54,0 (46,0)
41,7 (58,3)
25,0
Netherlands
11 Soc.dem.
47,2 (52,8)
52,0 (48,0)
42,8 (57,2)
30,9
Canada
12 Soc.dem.
46,8 (53,2)
50,9 (49,1)
43,0 (57,0)
33,1
Austria
13 Soc.dem.
46,5 (53,5)
52,1 (47,9)
41,4 (58,6)
30,0
Ireland
14 Populist
46,2 (53,8)
45,0 (55,0)
47,4 (52,6)
35,9
Germany
15 Soc.dem.
45,9 (54,1)
53,0 (47,0)
39,6 (60,4)
28,3
Spain
16 Soc.dem.
45,5 (54,5)
51,5 (48,5)
40,1 (59,9)
32,5
Australia
17 Populist
45,0 (55,0)
48,0 (52,0)
42,2 (57,8)
35,2
United King.
18 Populist
44,5 (55,5)
44,7 (55,3)
44,3 (55,7)
36.0
New Zealand
19 Populist
44,0 (56,0)
44,6 (55,4)
42,4 (57,6)
36,2
France
20 Soc.dem.
43,5 (56,5)
51,4 (48,6)
36,6 (63,4)
32,7
Italy
21 Populist
43,0 (57,0)
44,7 (55,3)
41,3 (58,7)
36,0
USA
22 Cons. lib.
42,5 (57,5)
24,5 (75,5)
69,8 (30,2)
40,8
Quote:well here's some information that might blow your mind;
Denmark Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption. http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=denmark|unitedstates&src=ranking
Finland Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, fiscal freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption. http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=finland|unitedstates&src=ranking
Iceland ranks a little lower than the US in most of these key indicators. It’s close, though. Remember also that Iceland has a smaller total population (320,000) than Wichita, KS.
Norway Ranks higher than the US in trade freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption.
Sweden Ranks higher than the US in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom, property freedom and freedom from corruption
Also remember Norway is backed by big oil and Switzerland as a safe haven or tax shelter. Also if you compare just about any of the Scandinavian nations to the United States their economies would all rank among the poorest states in capita per person. Scandinavia also has some of the highest cost of living in Europe while their people make less before and after taxes.
The funny part is that they have these freedoms because they educate their populace, keep their taxes high, and keep worker protections strong. Those things result in a populace that understands their own interests (unlike the USA) and keeps business interests aligned with the nation's interests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
Quote:That website you are using is rife with misleading propaganda. It's a rightwing speakerbox.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/heritage-foundation'>http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/heritage-foundation</a>
Anyways, you are wrong about the quality of life in Scandanavia; it's literally the best in the world.
I didn't say there wasn't a high quality of life there. I'm addressing the notion that it's a shinning example of socialism working. They have a very free market in most of the Scandinavian nations with very little interference.
As for the quality of life I'm not at liberty to say, I've never lived there. I know when you compare their incomes before and after taxes we make hands down more then they do, and I know when you compare their cost of living it's among the highest in the EU.
Quote:I didn't say there wasn't a high quality of life there. I'm addressing the notion that it's a shinning example of socialism working. They have a very free market in most of the Scandinavian nations with very little interference.
As for the quality of life I'm not at liberty to say, I've never lived there. I know when you compare their incomes before and after taxes we make hands down more then they do, and I know when you compare their cost of living it's among the highest in the EU.
The American median income is like $8,000 higher than the next highest in the world. People still act like our poor will starve to death if it weren't for food stamps.
Quote:The American median income is like $8,000 higher than the next highest in the world. People still act like our poor will starve to death if it weren't for food stamps.
Median income isn't a great statistic, it gets pulled up a lot by the top 1%.
50th percentile income is a better one. For a household that would be about 42,000 a year, or for two earners, two people working full time at about $10 an hour.
There are worse things than living on ~$40k/year, but that's the 50% percent mark. Half of all Americans are below that level.
Quote:The American median income is like $8,000 higher than the next highest in the world. People still act like our poor will starve to death if it weren't for food stamps.
Lol you can talk when you move out of your parents. Get yourself a job at subway, buy your car, buy your house and start a family. It's easy here, right? Cause this is America.
Quote:Median income isn't a great statistic, it gets pulled up a lot by the top 1%.
50th percentile income is a better one. For a household that would be about 42,000 a year, or for two earners, two people working full time at about $10 an hour.
There are worse things than living on ~$40k/year, but that's the 50% percent mark. Half of all Americans are below that level.
I'm below that level and have been my entire working life, but I'd say I live a pretty good life even compared to most in Europe.
I own my own 2400 sqft home on 3 acres of land. I have a 2007 truck and 2004 car, I have 2 big screen tv's and I'm able to provide toys for my four kids. I'm even planing on buying another 3 acres and a boat in a few years, try and do that on 33k a year in Europe?
Quote:I'm below that level and have been my entire working life, but I'd say I live a pretty good life even compared to most in Europe.
I own my own 2400 sqft home on 3 acres of land. I have a 2007 truck and 2004 car, I have 2 big screen tv's and I'm able to provide toys for my four kids. I'm even planing on buying another 3 acres and a boat in a few years, try and do that on 33k a year in Europe?
You get the earned income tax credit on your four kids? That was Reagan's replacement for welfare. Congratulations, welfare bought all of that stuff for you.
Quote:You get the earned income tax credit on your four kids? That was Reagan's replacement for welfare. Congratulations, welfare bought all of that stuff for you.
.gif "Laughing")
yes welfare bought all that for me........
Quote: yes welfare bought all that for me........
Personally I think the nation needs a national minimum income for everyone and that welfare is a net positive for the economy, but I do find it ironic that you rail against the government and socialism and here we are with my income tax dollars paying for you to raise your 4 kids and buy your big screen TVs.
Quote:Personally I think the nation needs a national minimum income for everyone and that welfare is a net positive for the economy, but I do find it ironic that you rail against the government and socialism and here we are with my income tax dollars paying for you to raise your 4 kids and buy your big screen TVs.
I find it funny you assume we take any welfare? Your tax dollars ain't paying for my kids or my lifestyle bubba, I'm VERY proud of that.
Quote:I find it funny you assume we take any welfare? Your tax dollars ain't paying for my kids or my lifestyle bubba, I'm VERY proud of that.
So you don't take the EITC? If not then good for you.
I take it you also send your children to private school since, you know, if you sent them to public school it would be paid for by the taxes of others.
I don't even mind giving my personal info out I'm not ashamed at all.
WE bought our house after downsizing to 600 sqft duplex for 3 years so I could SAVE the down payment. WE don't accept food stamps because we grow at least 60% of what we consume on that 3 acres. My kids however are on the "healthy kids" insurance which is tax payer subsidized, I'll admit I don't have much of an option on that one, have yet to find an insurance company within in reach that was before the ACA forget about it now. My kids go to a private school that I pay for every year, so your tax dollars don't even pay for their education.
Quote:I don't even mind giving my personal info out I'm not ashamed at all.
WE bought our house after downsizing to 600 sqft duplex for 3 years so I could SAVE the down payment. WE don't accept food stamps because we grow at least 60% of what we consume on that 3 acres. My kids however are on the "healthy kids" insurance which is tax payer subsidized, I'll admit I don't have much of an option on that one, have yet to find an insurance company within in reach that was before the ACA forget about it now. My kids go to a private school that I pay for every year, so your tax dollars don't even pay for their education.
Well good for you for living simply for the most part. Like I said, I support the idea of social welfare, so it doesn't offend me for you to be taking care of CHIP coverage. Of course at 33k per year you're still well above the "poverty level" and a lot of people subsist on much less, still.
Quote:Well good for you for living simply for the most part. Like I said, I support the idea of social welfare, so it doesn't offend me for you to be taking care of CHIP coverage. Of course at 33k per year you're still well above the "poverty level" and a lot of people subsist on much less, still.
Quote:I don't even mind giving my personal info out I'm not ashamed at all.
WE bought our house after downsizing to 600 sqft duplex for 3 years so I could SAVE the down payment. WE don't accept food stamps because we grow at least 60% of what we consume on that 3 acres. My kids however are on the "healthy kids" insurance which is tax payer subsidized, I'll admit I don't have much of an option on that one, have yet to find an insurance company within in reach that was before the ACA forget about it now. My kids go to a private school that I pay for every year, so your tax dollars don't even pay for their education.
Man, 40k between you and your wife and all 4 kids get private school? Impressive. My parents were going broke sending me to catholic school.