Quote:would you support a $40.00 minimum wage?
What I support is setting the floor at a level that allows people to live without needing social welfare. If at some point that requires $40/hr minimum wage then that's what the minimum wage would need to be.
Quote:What I support is setting the floor at a level that allows people to live without needing social welfare. If at some point that requires $40/hr minimum wage then that's what the minimum wage would need to be.
So all jobs regardless of experience, skill or demand should hold the potential to support families not needing social welfare?
Quote:It's not supposed to be
If you can't afford basic necessities of life on an entry level wage, then something is wrong (with that wage). Working people shouldn't suffer.
Quote:So all jobs regardless of experience, skill or demand should hold the potential to support families not needing social welfare?
Why is this unclear to you? You think that it's better for the government to subsidize big business through social welfare programs?
Quote:Congratulations on completely misunderstanding the problems faced by the poor.
The main problem is in inadequate social welfare programs and structure and a wage floor that's set WAAAAY too low.
The first order of business would be adjusting the minimum wage floor to be indexed to the poverty level. No one should ever work a full time job and make an income below the poverty level.
The next order of business is to disincentive business from using part time workers by setting the part time wage higher than the full time wage and requiring that part time workers receive the same benefits as full time workers.
After that you also need to get out of the free trade agreements the country is in to keep businesses from trying to create downward pressure on wages due to outsourcing.
Essentially all the problems the country has are actually due to too little pressure on business to operate in a way that actually benefits the country.
Tax rates are the last thing on anyone's mind when they're working more hours. That you continue to think it's at all relevant to anyone except for those who are already making enough money that more of it wouldn't make a difference in their quality of life shows how clueless you are to what's actually going on in the world and nation.
If you support the federal government telling private businesses to what they are allowed to set their profit margins, then that will work. If you don't support that, then doing all of that is pointless and all that you are doing is spinning your wheels and causing inflation. And if we step in that direction, we might as well just move to socialism.
Quote:If you can't afford basic necessities of life on an entry level wage, then something is wrong (with that wage). Working people shouldn't suffer.
OR the job they're doing is meant for people that are working for experience and not self sustainment. Teenagers for example traditionally filled the minimum wage jobs previously, my first job at 14 I made $5.15 an hour. Even at 40 hours that's not enough to support myself much less a family, but it was my first job and from there I continued to build experience and eventually got another job making more than minimum wage.
What your proposing or supporting is that 14 year old getting his first job should be making $10 or $11 or $12 an hour at an entry level, what happens in that case is the owner of that company says, no thanks I'm not going to hire 14 year olds to push carts I'll find another way to do that task.
Some jobs are remedial they don't require any skill or experience that's why they pay so little, people working at McDonalds shouldn't expect Fry dipping and Burger flipping to sustain them in a career, if they love the work they should learn to cook or open a restaurant but don't drop fries and expect to be paid a living wage.
Quote:Why is this unclear to you? You think that it's better for the government to subsidize big business through social welfare programs?
NO I don't support government subsidizing big business, I support letting people be free to pay their workers as they see fit. No one is forced to work anywhere we don't have contracted or slaved labor.
I support the Free Market.
Quote:If you support the federal government telling private businesses to what they are allowed to set their profit margins, then that will work. If you don't support that, then doing all of that is pointless and all that you are doing is spinning your wheels and causing inflation. And if we step in that direction, we might as well just move to socialism.
He'd be fine with moving to socialism
Quote:If you support the federal government telling private businesses to what they are allowed to set their profit margins, then that will work. If you don't support that, then doing all of that is pointless and all that you are doing is spinning your wheels and causing inflation. And if we step in that direction, we might as well just move to socialism.
The government doesn't need to tell businesses how much profit they can make, the government just needs to break up the mega corps so that there are a lot of players in every market.
Beyond that, though, the prices won't get out of hand because they have to actually sell product. There's a point of equilibrium, and businesses would find it. Competition and labor/wage laws would keep them honest.
As an aside recall when Papa John said he'd have to pass on 14cents per pizza to customers in order to provide health care coverage for people working in his company?
Literally around 1% of the cost of a large pizza with decent toppings.
Quote:The government doesn't need to tell businesses how much profit they can make, the government just needs to break up the mega corps so that there are a lot of players in every market.
Beyond that, though, the prices won't get out of hand because they have to actually sell product. There's a point of equilibrium, and businesses would find it. Competition and labor/wage laws would keep them honest.
As an aside recall when Papa John said he'd have to pass on 14cents per pizza to customers in order to provide health care coverage for people working in his company?
Literally around 1% of the cost of a large pizza with decent toppings.
You're wanting to dictate on a universal level what business pays their employees. That's a direct impact on profit margins, so yes weather you realize it or not, you're supporting government dictating profit margins to private business.
Quote:You're wanting to dictate on a universal level what business pays their employees. That's a direct impact on profit margins, so yes weather you realize it or not, you're supporting government dictating profit margins to private business.
It's not dictating what they pay their employees, it's dictating the minimum they can pay their employees.
You do understand this, right?
Quote:I'm slowly pulling you to the dark side :yes:
Nah, Im just able to see reasonable ideas and not toe a party line. Don't worry we still disagree in a ton of ways. :thumbsup:
Quote:It's not dictating what they pay their employees, it's dictating the minimum they can pay their employees.
You do understand this, right?
No wage is isolated, you set the bar at point X it effects all other wages.
Quote:The government doesn't need to tell businesses how much profit they can make, the government just needs to break up the mega corps so that there are a lot of players in every market.
Beyond that, though, the prices won't get out of hand because they have to actually sell product. There's a point of equilibrium, and businesses would find it. Competition and labor/wage laws would keep them honest.
As an aside recall when Papa John said he'd have to pass on 14cents per pizza to customers in order to provide health care coverage for people working in his company?
Literally around 1% of the cost of a large pizza with decent toppings.
I agree with breaking up many of the mega corporations, but that still doesn't eliminate the problem. Small businesses will still have to keep the same profit margin even more so than mega corps just to stay afloat. If you increase the wage, small businesses, many of which are operating at almost even as it is, must pass the costs on to the consumer.
There are zero ways in which you can eliminate the poor and impoverished in a capitalist society. The only financial system that does that is socialism. However, in a true free market capitalist government with minimal regulations, your country's poor are richer and live a higher quality of life than any other country's poor. Our country's poor still have a better quality of life than any other country in the world's poor. If the free market is allowed to go unfettered, than the quality of life will continue to increase.
Inevitably, all capitalist societies cede to socialism. It's a byproduct of comparing yourself to the person next to you instead of seeing that in reality you're pulling away from the rest of the world.
Quote:No wage is isolated, you set the bar at point X it effects all other wages.
Your sentiment is on the verge of profundity, it's sad that you're so close to understanding why central regulation is necessary yet still unable to admit that truth to yourself.
Quote:If you can't afford basic necessities of life on an entry level wage, then something is wrong (with that wage). Working people shouldn't suffer.
What part of entry level confuses you? Those jobs are not intended to be career destinations. If you want to make more money get out there and EARN it, don't demand it be taken from others.
Quote:However, in a true free market capitalist government with minimal regulations, your country's poor are richer and live a higher quality of life than any other country's poor. Our country's poor still have a better quality of life than any other country in the world's poor. If the free market is allowed to go unfettered, than the quality of life will continue to increase.
This is a rather unverified sentiment.
Here in the USA the poor are still richer than in other poor countries because the poor here started out richer due to a structure of programs and laws stemming from Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, and LBJ.
The elevated status of America's poor has nothing to do with the free market and everything to do with what came before. As things continue along the current course and infrastructure continues to crumble and social welfare programs are continually degraded the living standards of the poor will continue to degrade relative to third world nations.
Of course if you compared what it's like to be in poverty in the USA and what it's like to be poor in the better European countries you'd find that America's standards are already lower than the European world's poor.
Quote:What part of entry level confuses you? Those jobs are not intended to be career destinations. If you want to make more money get out there and EARN it, don't demand it be taken from others.
By doing... What?
Going to college and earning an MBA? :ermm:
Quote:By doing... What?
Going to college and earning an MBA? :ermm:
Are you saying that with an MBA you can't manage to earn more than minimum wage? Seriously let's try and stay practical here. How many MBA graduates are really working for minimum wage?
I'd like someone to show me a job that is paying minimum wage that should be paying more. I always hear from the left mostly about these minimum wage jobs and the working poor that can't live on them, hey I've worked those jobs never did I expect it to be something I could live off of. those jobs where either supplemental income or entry level work but why is flipping burgers supposed to support my family?
Quote:What part of entry level confuses you? Those jobs are not intended to be career destinations. If you want to make more money get out there and EARN it, don't demand it be taken from others.
Thats nice in theory, but what about those that for whatever reason lose their "careers" - even through no fault of their own such as their workplace going under?? Sometimes you can't immediately find similar/ equatable "career" work quickly.
What about the people out there that simply aren't as lucky as some and maybe weren't able to get that college education. Maybe they had to take care of their brothers and sisters growing up and the only job they can get is an entry level job....
You're showing a lack of empathy and a mindset that every person out there is in the same situations as others. Some aren't as fortunate.
If they are willing/ wanting to work full time and not sponge off the government, shouldn't they be able to earn a livable wage?????