Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:His criticisms are so clearly biased that it makes me, the king of the Gata Hata Club, speak out in Fowler's defense.


What a world...

Lol

Great to see Fowler have a good game. I hold out hope! 

Quote:Great to see Fowler have a good game. I hold out hope! 

Its dumb to call a guy a bust when its his first year in the NFL plus coming off an ACL injury, even star players are slow that first year back from an ACL injury

Quote:Its dumb to call a guy a bust when its his first year in the NFL plus coming off an ACL injury, even star players are slow that first year back from an ACL injury

 

I'd even add that calling a DE a bust prior to year three is dumb as well. That position traditionally takes time to adjust to the NFL level of play. 

 

Many edge rushers historically have taken 3 or 4 years to begin showing real production in the NFL and gone on to solid or better careers.  

I see this as Fowler's second year, so I don't see why he can't develop a better outside move, get stronger with his hands, and learn to shed blocks more efficiently.  He's still got some time by my clock. 

Quote:I'd even add that calling a DE a bust prior to year three is dumb as well. That position traditionally takes time to adjust to the NFL level of play.


Many edge rushers historically have taken 3 or 4 years to begin showing real production in the NFL and gone on to solid or better careers.

I see this as Fowler's second year, so I don't see why he can't develop a better outside move, get stronger with his hands, and learn to shed blocks more efficiently. He's still got some time by my clock.

I know it's his second year as a professional. But he's only had about it 6 months of developing those things (better outside move, stronger hands, etc) while also being limited for the first couple of those months. I think it'll come.

I hold out hope too. We're seeing quite a few pass rushers this year who've made the leap in their 2nd year and 3rd year - Vic Beasley, Danielle Hunter, Markus Golden and Frank Clark now in their 2nd seasons and Dee Ford in his 3rd. Then you have Nick Perry in his 5th season who hit 10 sacks when his previous high was 4. Very few pass rushers are impact players in their first season. 

He's not a threat on the edge right now and he wasn't in college either. Believing he will suddenly develop like Beasley is a stretch, Beasley was a great edge rusher in Clemson.

 

He's doing very well inside and with stunts (I believe he started out as a DT). I would use him like Ryan Davis, that would be a spot where he can bring the most. 3rd overall for that is stil a bit expensive.

Count me in the give him time camp.


Hopefully he latches onto Yannick this offseason.

Updated the Fowler and Beasley stats. Just to show there is still some hope.


Vic Beasley first year stats : 537 snaps , 26 tackles 4 sacks 3 PD 1 INT 2 FF 42 pressures 22 hurries.


Dante Fowler first year stats: 488 snaps, 31 tackles 3.5 sacks 4 PDs (no pressure stats yet) 17 hurries.


Not too sure how accurate those hurry stats are but they are both from the same site. So while Fowler hasn't looked great this year stats wise he isn't too far off Beasley although I'd be surprised if Fowler ever turns into the pass rusher that Beasley is today. He's better against the run already though so he still has potential to be an impact player.


Again not saying Fowler is having a better rookie year than Vic. He isn't. Just that it might be closer than some think.

Quote:Updated the Fowler and Beasley stats. Just to show there is still some hope.


Vic Beasley first year stats : 537 snaps , 26 tackles 4 sacks 3 PD 1 INT 2 FF 42 pressures 22 hurries.


Dante Fowler first year stats: 488 snaps, 31 tackles 3.5 sacks 4 PDs (no pressure stats yet) 17 hurries.


Not too sure how accurate those hurry stats are but they are both from the same site. So while Fowler hasn't looked great this year stats wise he isn't too far off Beasley although I'd be surprised if Fowler ever turns into the pass rusher that Beasley is today. He's better against the run already though so he still has potential to be an impact player.


Again not saying Fowler is having a better rookie year than Vic. He isn't. Just that it might be closer than some think.

 

HOW DARE YOU USE STATS OVER TIME TO MEASURE PERFORMANCE?!?!?!

 

DON'T YOU KNOW WE ALREADY DECIDED DFJ IS A BUST BECAUSE OF THE LENGTH OF HIS LEFT 4th METATARSAL MEASUREMENT FROM THE COMBINE??!?!?!?!?!

Yannick is still better so far. 

Quote:HOW DARE YOU USE STATS OVER TIME TO MEASURE PERFORMANCE?!?!?!


DON'T YOU KNOW WE ALREADY DECIDED DFJ IS A BUST BECAUSE OF THE LENGTH OF HIS LEFT 4th METATARSAL MEASUREMENT FROM THE COMBINE??!?!?!?!?!

I'm sorry you are right my man. Fowler only had a big toe flexion of 40 degrees, so you know he will never be any good at foosball.

Quote:HOW DARE YOU USE STATS OVER TIME TO MEASURE PERFORMANCE?!?!?!


DON'T YOU KNOW WE ALREADY DECIDED DFJ IS A BUST BECAUSE OF THE LENGTH OF HIS LEFT 4th METATARSAL MEASUREMENT FROM THE COMBINE??!?!?!?!?!

idk what it is with you guys and this opposition to numbers that reflect performance pretty regularly

besides the fact that kyjaggy consistently provides context to go along with these numbers, nothing he says is ever preposterous. You guys just dont want to hear it because youre still holding out hope fowler wasnt a super reach.

Quote:besides the fact that kyjaggy consistently provides context to go along with these numbers, nothing he says is ever preposterous. You guys just dont want to hear it because youre still holding out hope fowler wasnt a super reach.

Fowler has shown he lacks some of the traits you'd want to see from an edge rusher taken so early -  but I think what you are seeing from folks is more about that particular poster's prior failures at analysis than his successes.  That, and the fact that he tends to insult others in the process. 

 

He may turn out to be right about Fowler.  Maybe.  Sure looks like he was way off on Marqise Lee though.  

Quote:Updated the Fowler and Beasley stats. Just to show there is still some hope.


Vic Beasley first year stats : 537 snaps , 26 tackles 4 sacks 3 PD 1 INT 2 FF 42 pressures 22 hurries.


Dante Fowler first year stats: 488 snaps, 31 tackles 3.5 sacks 4 PDs (no pressure stats yet) 17 hurries.


Not too sure how accurate those hurry stats are but they are both from the same site. So while Fowler hasn't looked great this year stats wise he isn't too far off Beasley although I'd be surprised if Fowler ever turns into the pass rusher that Beasley is today. He's better against the run already though so he still has potential to be an impact player.


Again not saying Fowler is having a better rookie year than Vic. He isn't. Just that it might be closer than some think.

Good stats, and Beasley wasnt coming off an ACL injury and was a much better edge rusher then Fowler coming out of college

 

ATL fans were calling Beasley a bust too, Fowler will have a big leap next year, one thing about Fowler is he loves the game and will play hard.

Quote:Yannick is still better so far. 

Also Yannick was a 5th year Sr., pure pass rusher not coming off an ACL injury

Quote:Fowler has shown he lacks some of the traits you'd want to see from an edge rusher taken so early - but I think what you are seeing from folks is more about that particular poster's prior failures at analysis than his successes. That, and the fact that he tends to insult others in the process.


He may turn out to be right about Fowler. Maybe. Sure looks like he was way off on Marqise Lee though.

Wayyyyy off on Lee.

Quote:Also Yannick was a 5th year Sr., pure pass rusher not coming off an ACL injury

No he wasn't. He left after his junior year and is 21 years old.

Yeah still not putting Marqise in the above average category yet. He's made some nice plays yes, so does virtually every average WR. 

 

Dontrell Inman makes some nice plays, Rishard Matthews makes some nice plays, Brandon Lafell makes some nice plays, Chris Hogan has made some nice plays, Cameron Meredith has made some nice plays. Ted Ginn makes some nice plays. Terrence Williams has made some nice plays.

 

I wouldn't call any of those guys above average, but they're beating Marqise in at least 2 of yards, yards per catch, or TDs. If y'all are labeling those guys above as above average or good also then it's fair to call Marqise that too, we just disagree on where the bar is. I was also the guy not ready to anoint Hurns as a top 100 overall player after he made that list too, so maybe my WR threshold is just high.