Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Malik is a better pass rusher than Fowler he draws a lot of attention.

(10-24-2017, 07:16 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I still haven't been that impressed. He isn't making very many impactful plays while the game still matters. He beats cellar dweller RTs (Giacomo dead last in pressures), a lot of TE and RB, and then he piles on at the end of blowouts.

Those two plays at the very end of the Jets game are really the only two plays that have opened my eyes as impact plays that actually might/should have mattered to the outcome. Other than that it looks like a guy who takes advantage of being the forgotten 4th best pass rusher on a dline that defenses just occasionally forget to account for.

You must be one of the Alfie minions.  There are always people like you that say "yeah but" for whatever reason.  The guy has been producing and is listed as #12 in the league in sacks.  It may not impress you (as if that really matters) but he's been pretty solid.  I'll take that any day when you have two of his teammates above him on the list.

(10-24-2017, 09:22 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-24-2017, 07:16 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I still haven't been that impressed. He isn't making very many impactful plays while the game still matters. He beats cellar dweller RTs (Giacomo dead last in pressures), a lot of TE and RB, and then he piles on at the end of blowouts.

Those two plays at the very end of the Jets game are really the only two plays that have opened my eyes as impact plays that actually might/should have mattered to the outcome. Other than that it looks like a guy who takes advantage of being the forgotten 4th best pass rusher on a dline that defenses just occasionally forget to account for.

You must be one of the Alfie minions.  There are always people like you that say "yeah but" for whatever reason.  The guy has been producing and is listed as #12 in the league in sacks.  It may not impress you (as if that really matters) but he's been pretty solid.  I'll take that any day when you have two of his teammates above him on the list.

I don't know about the Alfie's minions thing, but I can't understand the criticism here.

He ran the fumble back against Houston.  For a DE to scoop and score like that evidences a lot of athleticism for the position.

He has two forced fumbles and is getting pressure.  He doesn't just loop around on stunts or simply come unblocked.  He is beating tackles head up.  He's on pace for double digit sacks.

Furthermore, he's cut down an the dumb/killer penalties.  His penalties are now mostly effort plays.

I'm not sure what people want at this point.

(10-24-2017, 09:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-24-2017, 09:22 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]You must be one of the Alfie minions.  There are always people like you that say "yeah but" for whatever reason.  The guy has been producing and is listed as #12 in the league in sacks.  It may not impress you (as if that really matters) but he's been pretty solid.  I'll take that any day when you have two of his teammates above him on the list.

I don't know about the Alfie's minions thing, but I can't understand the criticism here.

He ran the fumble back against Houston.  For a DE to scoop and score like that evidences a lot of athleticism for the position.

He has two forced fumbles and is getting pressure.  He doesn't just loop around on stunts or simply come unblocked.  He is beating tackles head up.  He's on pace for double digit sacks.

Furthermore, he's cut down an the dumb/killer penalties.  His penalties are now mostly effort plays.

I'm not sure what people want at this point.

The people you're talking about want the Jags to fail, they're anti-fans.

I'll gladly eat crow. I thought he was terrible. I made a thread with the exact same name at one point. He couldn't generate any pressure. Only made impacts on being schemed into stunts. This year he's actually comfortable with playing with his hand in the dirt. He's converting his speed to power and choking guys at the line of scrimmage.

Whats up guys, long time no talk. Dont really know if anyone actually remembers me, but I used to be on here a long time, and now ive browsed a bit again. Anyways, yeah Fowler has always gotten a lot of flack, but the fact is he is simply getting better as a player. Its a little thing called progression and player development along with having players like Campbell around him to free him up. Hes never been one to take on double teams but hes going against bad RTs and TEs now. That helps out a TON. The DE in the NFL usually takes 3 seasons to finally get there so im excited to see where he is later this year and into next.

(10-24-2017, 10:01 PM)haveaseat Wrote: [ -> ]I'll gladly eat crow. I thought he was terrible. I made a thread with the exact same name at one point. He couldn't generate any pressure. Only made impacts on being schemed into stunts. This year he's actually comfortable with playing with his hand in the dirt. He's converting his speed to power and choking guys at the line of scrimmage.

One thing I've learned over the years is that sometimes it takes players time to learn the tricks of their trade, for various reasons.

Sometimes players get injured early-like Fowler.
Sometimes players are immature-like Fowler.
Sometimes, players may not get the best of coaching-(Fowler, perhaps?).
Sometimes, it just takes a while to "get it."

Now in fairness, many times, players never turn the corner.  They start out ineffective and remain ineffective and officially become busts.

I try not to be too quick to pull the plug on guys.  To me, there were enough obvious mitigating factors-most notably the injury and inexperience-to enable me to give Fowler a little more time.  But I gotta admit, his off field stuff made it hard.

(10-24-2017, 09:22 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-24-2017, 07:16 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I still haven't been that impressed. He isn't making very many impactful plays while the game still matters. He beats cellar dweller RTs (Giacomo dead last in pressures), a lot of TE and RB, and then he piles on at the end of blowouts.

Those two plays at the very end of the Jets game are really the only two plays that have opened my eyes as impact plays that actually might/should have mattered to the outcome. Other than that it looks like a guy who takes advantage of being the forgotten 4th best pass rusher on a dline that defenses just occasionally forget to account for.

You must be one of the Alfie minions.  There are always people like you that say "yeah but" for whatever reason.  The guy has been producing and is listed as #12 in the league in sacks.  It may not impress you (as if that really matters) but he's been pretty solid.  I'll take that any day when you have two of his teammates above him on the list.

Nah, sack totals just don't mean that much to me. There is far too much noise in numbers that are so small one or two fluke plays in either direction can significantly skew the truth. I simply remember several games where we were collectively asking if Fowler was even playing in the game and then a silly play would happen where Flacco had a design roll right into him, or a RB or TE were designed to block him 1-1, etc. I am still not seeing him beat OTs (other than the aforementioned Giacomo who is the worst RT in the league) very often at all.

*Marion Hobby

Key factor in this equation ^

(11-13-2016, 05:44 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]He was wrecking shop in training camp. Then week 1 started..

lol

Hahahaha it’s a bloodbath in here.

(10-24-2017, 11:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]*Marion Hobby

Key factor in this equation ^

I was thinking that this morning.

He deserves a ton of credit, in my estimation.

(10-25-2017, 08:10 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-24-2017, 11:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]*Marion Hobby

Key factor in this equation ^

I was thinking that this morning.

He deserves a ton of credit, in my estimation.

I think Campbell as a mentor as much as Campbell as a player is a big factor as well.

(10-24-2017, 10:15 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]It's all about changing the culture and better coaching.  Gus was holding back the entire team....

Best part of this year...  no more Seattle South nonsense.  Man that scheme didn't work here and it is understandable we didn't have their players.  That injury was bad and now it is fading from his memory.

He's showed noticeable improvement from last year. He's already a good run defender when he gets on and has shown signs that he's on his way to be a good pass rusher.

On pace for double digit sacks and only turned 23 a few months ago. You can harp on about the quality of the opposition I guess but the reality is a 23 year old good run defender who gets double digit sacks is a very valuable player in the NFL.

Why would anyone resurrect this thread? Gotta prove that you were the one person not on the "Fowler is a bust" band wagon?

(10-25-2017, 08:39 AM)Browntrouser Wrote: [ -> ]Why would anyone resurrect this thread? Gotta prove that you were the one person not on the "Fowler is a bust" band wagon?

Because it is fun to look at past thoughts and conceptions.  It is a review of fandom and our past frustration.  I don't mind being wrong when the result is better play from a player and the team.

(10-25-2017, 08:12 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-25-2017, 08:10 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I was thinking that this morning.

He deserves a ton of credit, in my estimation.

I think Campbell as a mentor as much as Campbell as a player is a big factor as well.

Absolutely.

The thing is, we've tried adding free agents that provide that veteran leadership in the past with less than desirable results.

Bryce Paup was either miscast in our defense, finished as a player, or both.

We added Carnell Lake, who had one good year for us, then was done.

Same with Hardy Nickerson.

Hugh Douglas was an unmitigated disaster both from a production and leadership standpoint.

Reggie Hayward and Aaron Kampman were likely good examples in the locker room, but both got seriously injured early and did not stick around to make much impact.

But Calais Campbell has surpassed all of my expectations for him by a wide margin, and I'm thrilled.

He isn't the caliber of player Reggie White was.  Not a knock on Campbell at all.  But him coming here appears to be having a similar impact on and off field as White had when he went to Green Bay.

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(10-25-2017, 08:52 AM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-25-2017, 08:39 AM)Browntrouser Wrote: [ -> ]Why would anyone resurrect this thread? Gotta prove that you were the one person not on the "Fowler is a bust" band wagon?

Because it is fun to look at past thoughts and conceptions.  It is a review of fandom and our past frustration.  I don't mind being wrong when the result is better play from a player and the team.

I agree completely with this, especially the part in bold.

(10-25-2017, 08:53 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-25-2017, 08:12 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]I think Campbell as a mentor as much as Campbell as a player is a big factor as well.

Absolutely.

The thing is, we've tried adding free agents that provide that veteran leadership in the past with less than desirable results.

Bryce Paup was either miscast in our defense, finished as a player, or both.

We added Carnell Lake, who had one good year for us, then was done.

Same with Hardy Nickerson.

Hugh Douglas was an unmitigated disaster both from a production and leadership standpoint.

Reggie Hayward and Aaron Kampman were likely good examples in the locker room, but both got seriously injured early and did not stick around to make much impact.

But Calais Campbell has surpassed all of my expectations for him by a wide margin, and I'm thrilled.

He isn't the caliber of player Reggie White was.  Not a knock on Campbell at all.  But him coming here appears to be having a similar impact on and off field as White had when he went to Green Bay.

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(10-25-2017, 08:52 AM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]Because it is fun to look at past thoughts and conceptions.  It is a review of fandom and our past frustration.  I don't mind being wrong when the result is better play from a player and the team.

I agree completely with this, especially the part in bold.

I would say White or Woodson would be the best comparisons as far as production and leadership. I just don’t get it. I understand he was 31 but the dude is playing elite football why on earth would the cardinals, who appeared to be in win now mode, let him get away?