Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:It would certainly help if he had a veteran to look up to. Ask Beasley.


Tweet from SiriusXM NFL Radio (@SiriusXMNFL) - Dan Quinn: Vic Beasley has really come into his own this season and Dwight Freeney is a big part of it.

https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNFL/status/8...2504927232

Exactly.

 

Having a great player at the same position is going to make way more of an impact in helping a young player, than any coach could. I'm sure Beasley attached himself to Freeney's hip and picked his brain like no other.

 

Having good coaches is important, but basically having a coach on the field with you, who is a sure fire HoFer, is HUGE.

 

I mean Dee Ford is another example. 1.5 sacks his rookie year, 4 sacks his 2nd year and now 10 sacks so far this year.

 

You think he hasn't picked Justin Houston and Tamba Hali's brains to the max? Having two guys like that in the meeting rooms and on the field, with that kind of knowledge and experience of the game. Flat out invaluable, especially for guys who are raw coming into the league to begin with.

I firmly believe the whole "having a veteran to teach the rookie" is one of the most overrated cliches in sports.

Quote:I firmly believe the whole "having a veteran to teach the rookie" is one of the most overrated cliches in sports.

I agree with this. It's easy to cherry pick example where it might have happened (and of course every player and coach is going to credit teammates), but there are just as many examples of players busting when they had great mentor types too. There are also plenty of examples of players doing very well when they didn't have mentor types.

 

If it helps some of you feel better to explain Beasley's success and Fowler's floundering up tot his point to the fact that Beasley has had a mentor and Fowler hasn't that is fine I guess. I'll chalk it up to the guy who was the far superior pass rusher in college with the far superior athletic profile developing into what he should have become independent of the enigmatic, unmeasurable 'veteran presence' theory. 

Quote:I agree with this. It's easy to cherry pick example where it might have happened (and of course every player and coach is going to credit teammates), but there are just as many examples of players busting when they had great mentor types too. There are also plenty of examples of players doing very well when they didn't have mentor types.

 

If it helps some of you feel better to explain Beasley's success and Fowler's floundering up tot his point to the fact that Beasley has had a mentor and Fowler hasn't that is fine I guess. I'll chalk it up to the guy who was the far superior pass rusher in college with the far superior athletic profile developing into what he should have become independent of the enigmatic, unmeasurable 'veteran presence' theory. 

 

Man, you luvs you some Beasley.

Fowler was apparently a stud at UF and the 3rd overall pick but he's completely ineffective and thats all because of coaching


ok

<p class="">knarnn, on 29 Nov 2016 - 3:42 PM, said:<a class="" href='https://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=903360'></a>

Quote:It would certainly help if he had a veteran to look up to. Ask Beasley.


Tweet from SiriusXM NFL Radio (@SiriusXMNFL) - Dan Quinn: Vic Beasley has really come into his own this season and Dwight Freeney is a big part of it.

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNFL/status/803692262504927232' title="External link">https://twitter.com/...692262504927232</a>

Quote:Exactly.

 

Having a great player at the same position is going to make way more of an impact in helping a young player, than any coach could. I'm sure Beasley attached himself to Freeney's hip and picked his brain like no other.

 

Having good coaches is important, but basically having a coach on the field with you, who is a sure fire HoFer, is HUGE.

 

I mean Dee Ford is another example. 1.5 sacks his rookie year, 4 sacks his 2nd year and now 10 sacks so far this year.

 

You think he hasn't picked Justin Houston and Tamba Hali's brains to the max? Having two guys like that in the meeting rooms and on the field, with that kind of knowledge and experience of the game. Flat out invaluable, especially for guys who are raw coming into the league to begin with.

 

  I didn't realize until a few minutes ago that there were two threads with the same title. I knew the Forum search engine would come in handy again.  LOL   What both of what you expressed was what I tried to starting on page 8 of the following thread a few weeks back:

 

  https://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/to...-8?hl=slay

 

  Though I respect the opinion of KYjaggy and the others that see this topic on the opposite end of the spectrum,  IMO,  veteran mentors and leaders in general are an invaluable part of an NFL team.    Both in the short term and even more importantly in the long term.

Quote:I agree with this. It's easy to cherry pick example where it might have happened (and of course every player and coach is going to credit teammates), but there are just as many examples of players busting when they had great mentor types too. There are also plenty of examples of players doing very well when they didn't have mentor types.

 

If it helps some of you feel better to explain Beasley's success and Fowler's floundering up tot his point to the fact that Beasley has had a mentor and Fowler hasn't that is fine I guess. I'll chalk it up to the guy who was the far superior pass rusher in college with the far superior athletic profile developing into what he should have become independent of the enigmatic, unmeasurable 'veteran presence' theory. 

I guess Beasley having 16 more games at the NFL level, sure doesn't help him at all either does it? I'm sure that's probably overrated also huh.

16 games, 20 tackles 4 sacks

 

11 games, 16 tackles, 2.5 sacks

 

Hmmmmm, Beasley is clearly so much better than DFJ... 

Quote:16 games, 20 tackles 4 sacks

 

11 games, 16 tackles, 2.5 sacks

 

Hmmmmm, Beasley is clearly so much better than DFJ... 

Game, set, and match.

Quote:Game, set, and match.

Ignoring his 2nd season is just downright dishonest

Quote:Ignoring his 2nd season is just downright dishonest

Not allowing DFJ to complete his real first year is downright incompetent. His play has been very rough, to say the least, but give the kid some time to actually develop and get up to game speed. 

 

If we all judged true rookie pass-rushers in their first year, you would find many "busts" than you would JJ Watt's. Even the great ones had shaky starts.

Quote:Ignoring his 2nd season is just downright dishonest

And so is not accepting the fact that Beasley has a full season worth of experience and a full season worth of development over Fowler.

So with all this "developing" talk with first round picks we have Ngakoue who was a 3rd round pick leading the rookies in sacks. K.

Quote:So with all this "developing" talk with first round picks we have Ngakoue who was a 3rd round pick leading the rookies in sacks. K.

Not every cookie comes out of the oven the same way.

 

Why can't every pass rusher be JJ Watt?

Quote:Not every cookie comes out of the oven the same way.

 

Why can't every pass rusher be JJ Watt?

 

Watt rookie year: 16 games, 48 tackles, 5.5 sacks. Damn he's no Vic Beasley.

 

Ngakoue - 11 games, 15 tackles, 6 sacks. Clearly he's the best of the lot.

Quote:16 games, 20 tackles 4 sacks

 

11 games, 16 tackles, 2.5 sacks

 

Hmmmmm, Beasley is clearly so much better than DFJ... 

Good job taking 1 full minute to google box scores and come up with an opinion.

Quote:And so is not accepting the fact that Beasley has a full season worth of experience and a full season worth of development over Fowler.

And Beasley's first season looked lightyears ahead of Fowler's. 

Quote:Good job taking 1 full minute to google box scores and come up with an opinion.

 

Nothing else matters there Spider Web.

Quote:And Beasley's first season looked lightyears ahead of Fowler's. 

 

You got it for him sooo bad.

 

Quote:Nothing else matters there Spider Web.

Make fun of physical attributes all you want if that makes you feel better, but that's what gets you Fowler's at #3 overall instead of Beasley's.