Quote:See? Saying Fowler is a bad athlete is misperception on your part. He's a great athlete doing something brand new. This team needs to switch to 3/4 next year. They only need 2 pieces to make it work.
Nope, Fowler is a 30th percentile athlete who had a horrible 7.4 3 cone, 112" broad jump, and 32 inch vertical jump. And he probably isn't even that anymore post ACL surgery.
By comparison, Beasley is a 90th percentile athlete who had a 6.9 3 cone, 130" broad jump, and 41 inch vertical jump. Oh yeah and he also destroyed Fowler on the stat sheet in college.
Quote:Nope, Fowler is a 30th percentile athlete who had a horrible 7.4 3 cone, 112" broad jump, and 32 inch vertical jump. And he probably isn't even that anymore post ACL surgery.
By comparison, Beasley is a 90th percentile athlete who had a 6.9 3 cone, 130" broad jump, and 41 inch vertical jump. Oh yeah and he also destroyed Fowler on the stat sheet in college.
but bro spider charts dont matter! its all fancy shmancy numbers this is football!
Quote:but bro spider charts dont matter! its all fancy shmancy numbers this is football!
It is just unfathomable to me how Dave could sit and watch Beasley do that live in person at the combine, not to mention watching all of the college tape, and say "nah I'm gonna pick the other one".
Quote:It is just unfathomable to me how Dave could sit and watch Beasley do that live in person at the combine, not to mention watching all of the college tape, and say "nah I'm gonna pick the other one".
I have no idea what theyre thinking in the first two rounds ever
Quote:I have no idea what theyre thinking in the first two rounds ever
2016 seems to be the exception.
Quote:Nope, Fowler is a 30th percentile athlete who had a horrible 7.4 3 cone, 112" broad jump, and 32 inch vertical jump. And he probably isn't even that anymore post ACL surgery.
By comparison, Beasley is a 90th percentile athlete who had a 6.9 3 cone, 130" broad jump, and 41 inch vertical jump. Oh yeah and he also destroyed Fowler on the stat sheet in college.
Here's a related question that I'm interested in your input ( and anyone else for that matter. ) If not for the character issues with Shane Ray, do you think he would have been a consideration for the Jaguars pick at # 3 or the Falcons pick at # 8 in that draft? I actually had Ray going to the Falcons before the character factor became a major issue.
Quote: Here's a related question that I'm interested in your input ( and anyone else for that matter. ) If not for the character issues with Shane Ray, do you think he would have been a consideration for the Jaguars pick at # 3 or the Falcons pick at # 8 in that draft? I actually had Ray going to the Falcons before the character factor became a major issue.
I can't speak for how the Falcons and Jags had their boards stacked, but I personally had Shane Ray as a mid to late second. He had a tendency to get swallowed up if he didnt win on the first move.
<a class="bbc_url" href='https://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/11877-fa01s-final-top-10-positional-rankings/?fromsearch=1'>https://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/11877-fa01s-final-top-10-positional-rankings/?fromsearch=1</a>
Quote: Here's a related question that I'm interested in your input ( and anyone else for that matter. ) If not for the character issues with Shane Ray, do you think he would have been a consideration for the Jaguars pick at # 3 or the Falcons pick at # 8 in that draft? I actually had Ray going to the Falcons before the character factor became a major issue.
No I wasn't a Ray fan at all either. He's somehow even worse than Fowler in the 3 cone despite being 15 lbs lighter at the combine. I charted his sacks in college and he was basically the Blake Bortles of college DEs. Nothing special in the slightest until the score was out of hand and he got to pin his ears back and jump the snap.
I loved Beasley and I really liked Bud Dupree. Dupree is a straight line guy like Fowler and Ray, but his explosion for his weight was just incredible. 42" vertical and 138" broad at 269 is off the charts, I think he could make up for the lack of bend with that explosion and size especially if he was in a wide 9 LEO type of role.
Quote:No I wasn't a Ray fan at all either. He's somehow even worse than Fowler in the 3 cone despite being 15 lbs lighter at the combine. I charted his sacks in college and he was basically the Blake Bortles of college DEs. Nothing special in the slightest until the score was out of hand and he got to pin his ears back and jump the snap.
I loved Beasley and I really liked Bud Dupree. Dupree is a straight line guy like Fowler and Ray, but his explosion for his weight was just incredible. 42" vertical and 138" broad at 269 is off the charts, I think he could make up for the lack of bend with that explosion and size especially if he was in a wide 9 LEO type of role.
Thanks for your input.
Though I know you have major doubts about Dante Fowler, do you think there's a specific position on any current NFL Defensive scheme that could at least provide winning caliber value?
Quote: Thanks for your input.
Though I know you have major doubts about Dante Fowler, do you think there's a specific position on any current NFL Defensive scheme that could at least provide winning caliber value?
I would try and make him a better version of Ryan Davis honestly. Davis was 261 lb, 7.45 3 cone, 33" vertical, and 110" broad so they are virtual clones athletically. Bulk him up a little and have him be an interior DPR. He has an ok get off that would hopefully play up against slower guards, and he wouldn't have to bend to get to the QB if he did beat them.
I definitely wouldn't move him to LB and try to have him work in even more space, though.
I might be wrong but I think they designed the Otto crap just for Fowler, he never was an outside pass rusher and much better stunting and blitzing.
He's a barely better version of Andre Branch.
just another florida gator, nothing to see here
Quote:just another florida gator, nothing to see here
That's my general thought about him as well. Not a fan of Gators coming out of college on defense. Joe Haden I think has been the last great defender to come out of college and he's stuck with the Browns. Maybe Reggie Nelson off and on at this level. Secondary wise, they're not so bad. But any player from the front four? I often cringe when I see a guy tied to us in the first round.
Quote:I would try and make him a better version of Ryan Davis honestly. Davis was 261 lb, 7.45 3 cone, 33" vertical, and 110" broad so they are virtual clones athletically. Bulk him up a little and have him be an interior DPR. He has an ok get off that would hopefully play up against slower guards, and he wouldn't have to bend to get to the QB if he did beat them.
I definitely wouldn't move him to LB and try to have him work in even more space, though.
What would be your guess how much DFJ has been used at DT in Nickel/ Dime/ Expected Passing situations both with Florida and with the Jaguars?
Quote:Seriously
We don't need that long, we got stats and such.
Quote: What would be your guess how much DFJ has been used at DT in Nickel/ Dime/ Expected Passing situations both with Florida and with the Jaguars?
I don't have any real guesses on that, a little that I remember at UF and I don't know at all in the NFL.
It's certainly a projection on my part, but an opinion based on the traits and skill set Fowler has vs the traits and skill set required to play SAM, DE, and DT.
Quote:I don't have any real guesses on that, a little that I remember at UF and I don't know at all in the NFL.
It's certainly a projection on my part, but an opinion based on the traits and skill set Fowler has vs the traits and skill set required to play SAM, DE, and DT.
Assuming your projection turns out to be the case, do you think DJF will have enough ability ( when factoring in him being further away from the torn ACL ) to be good enough to be a winning level base Defense DE, with him moving inside to DT in nickel type of situations?
I'm interested to see how things play out with DFJ, especially once the Jaguars have a different coaching staff, If under much better conditions he still turns out to be a huge disappointment in terms of original expectations based on the spot he was drafted at, it could and should influence the direction of future NFL drafts.
Let's wait until he's in his 3rd playing season and make a determination