(03-22-2022, 05:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2022, 02:42 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know. It sucks because there is no easy answer. No one wants WW3 but at the same time how much longer can world leaders let Putin destroy a country? And if/when he succeeds and decides to invade another country will NATO (or anyone) else deal with him?
The war in Ukraine so far reveals to me that the Russian military is no threat to Nato, and Nato would kick their [BLEEP] fairly easily in a conventional war if it came to that.
The real threat is that Putin is crazy enough to use those 6,000 nukes he has.
It's tough to watch what's happening to Ukraine's civilians, but it seems like the best course is to arm the Ukrainians, like we're doing. It's a horrible choice to make, and it seems like we're sacrificing hundreds of thousands of civilians, but right now, whatever is worst for Putin is what is best for us. And what is worst for Putin is that this war drags on with no end in sight.
The worst outcome is that the Russians win this war. The second worst outcome might be that the Ukrainians win the war. Because that could lead to Putin doing something really crazy. MAYBE the best outcome is that the war drags on, because that would lead to Putin's downfall.
You don't think Putin would be leery of mutually assured destruction? Because that's what would happen. He may get a nuke or two off but Russia would be decimated. Sadly other European countries would also suffer straightaway. Heck, the
world would suffer.
Is Putin really that determined? I'm finding it hard to believe even though I know I shouldn't. We know of some pretty evil SOBs just in recent history. Hussein and bin Laden and their ilk come to mind immediately. For some reason ranking Putin along with them seems extreme but I admit I don't know much about him. I guess I should do some research.
China has got to be watching the success/failure of the Russian invasion very closely. If Russia comes out of this defeated or even a weak victor, you can bet that China wouldn't hesitate to leverage that info for 'negotiating' a lower purchase price for Russian oil for themselves.
(03-22-2022, 10:25 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]China has got to be watching the success/failure of the Russian invasion very closely. If Russia comes out of this defeated or even a weak victor, you can bet that China wouldn't hesitate to leverage that info for 'negotiating' a lower purchase price for Russian oil for themselves.
I hope China is learning that invading a smaller country doesn't always go according to plan, and that the western world is so connected and united that they can be very powerful economically in response to something they don't like.
(03-22-2022, 10:52 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-22-2022, 10:25 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]China has got to be watching the success/failure of the Russian invasion very closely. If Russia comes out of this defeated or even a weak victor, you can bet that China wouldn't hesitate to leverage that info for 'negotiating' a lower purchase price for Russian oil for themselves.
I hope China is learning that invading a smaller country doesn't always go according to plan, and that the western world is so connected and united that they can be very powerful economically in response to something they don't like.
Quick question ---- Why don't we attempt to engage South America and India --- I never hear of them supporting any wars or sanctions. Another thing, why is Mexico not part of NATO.
(03-22-2022, 02:09 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (03-22-2022, 10:52 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I hope China is learning that invading a smaller country doesn't always go according to plan, and that the western world is so connected and united that they can be very powerful economically in response to something they don't like.
Quick question ---- Why don't we attempt to engage South America and India --- I never hear of them supporting any wars or sanctions. Another thing, why is Mexico not part of NATO.
The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was created to offset the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe, so Mexico wasn't really at risk.
(02-24-2022, 09:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]History shows that these kind of things can be very unpredictable. World War 1 started when Austria decided to punish Serbia for the assassination of the Austrian Archduke. It seemed like a small thing at the time. World War 2 started because we allowed a dictator to invade his neighbors.
Russia might have a plan, but plans go awry. The Ukrainians might defend themselves better than he thought they would. Then he casts about for blame. And he blames the United States for all those dead Russian soldiers coming home in body bags. Or, Western sanctions might hurt the Russian economy so badly that Putin declares the sanctions an act of war.
This thing could quickly spiral out of control. Or, it might slowly spiral out of control. We don't know. One thing I do know is, this is a lot more dangerous than people think.
This was my post from Feb 24. Nailed it, didn't I?
(03-22-2022, 10:52 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-22-2022, 10:25 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]China has got to be watching the success/failure of the Russian invasion very closely. If Russia comes out of this defeated or even a weak victor, you can bet that China wouldn't hesitate to leverage that info for 'negotiating' a lower purchase price for Russian oil for themselves.
I hope China is learning that invading a smaller country doesn't always go according to plan, and that the western world is so connected and united that they can be very powerful economically in response to something they don't like.
.......
Geez I sure hope Russia learned that lesson from the United States involvement in Vietnam....
....fast forward 10 years....
Oh wow... Russia sure is getting their butts kicked by a bunch of tribesman in Afghanistan... Welp, at least they'll learn...........
No one learns from history.
If they did Iran would be pissing themselves scared that Greece might rise up again.
(03-22-2022, 02:47 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-22-2022, 02:09 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Quick question ---- Why don't we attempt to engage South America and India --- I never hear of them supporting any wars or sanctions. Another thing, why is Mexico not part of NATO.
The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was created to offset the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe, so Mexico wasn't really at risk.
Yea brah...
Kinda in the name
(03-22-2022, 10:52 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-22-2022, 10:25 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]China has got to be watching the success/failure of the Russian invasion very closely. If Russia comes out of this defeated or even a weak victor, you can bet that China wouldn't hesitate to leverage that info for 'negotiating' a lower purchase price for Russian oil for themselves.
I hope China is learning that invading a smaller country doesn't always go according to plan, and that the western world is so connected and united that they can be very powerful economically in response to something they don't like.
Normally, I would agree, but what kind of alliance of nations is going to come to the defense of Russia and Putin? Not sure what that would look like. Russia and Belarus and Cuba?
I wonder how long this will go on. It's so sad for all those civilians.
YAY For My Home State!!!!!
Maryland Donates ‘Critically-Needed' Ventilators to Hospitals in Ukraine
The donation of 50 Astral portable ventilators was made through the Paul Chester Children’s Hope Foundation, a Maryland grassroots organization
Maryland is donating dozens of ventilators to front-line hospitals in war-torn Ukraine, Governor Larry Hogan announced Monday.
The donation of 50 Astral portable ventilators was made through the Paul Chester Children’s Hope Foundation, a Maryland grassroots organization that provides medical and surgical care to people in developing countries, the governor’s office said.
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local...YgZII7JGDs
Interesting article in the Wall Street Journal this morning. Sorry if you encounter a pay wall.
==========================================================================================
https://www.wsj.com/articles/weapons-for...1648066417
RZESZOW, Poland—Day and night, truck convoys rumble through once quiet Polish border towns and villages. Giant military transport planes land several times an hour on the single runway at a local airport. Their cargo: weapons for the Ukrainian forces fighting to beat back Russia’s invading army.
Western security officials say their strategy initially envisaged equipping a nascent Ukrainian insurgency—recalling the transfer of weapons to mujahedeen fighters who defeated the Soviet Union in Afghanistan—that would employ guerrilla tactics against Russian occupiers.
Instead, because Ukraine’s military has managed to keep Moscow’s forces at bay in much of the country, the task has become equipping a regular army engaged in a large-scale conventional war.
“The Ukrainians are expending a lot of ordnance, and this is more than we anticipated,” said a Western security official. “We are trying to step up the flow of weapons to meet that new requirement and there are constant shortages.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-hum...krainenato
NATO estimated Russia has lost as much as one-fifth of its combat forces sent to Ukraine in about a month of fighting as President Biden and alliance leaders gathered in Brussels for a summit to discuss providing further support to Kyiv to repel the Russian invasion.
Between 7,000 and 15,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine and up to 40,000 Russian troops in total have been killed, wounded, taken prisoner or are missing, said a senior military official from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Russia may also have lost 10% of its equipment, impairing Moscow’s ability to maintain its pace of operations, said another NATO official.
============================================================================================================================================================
It's becoming more and more clear that if we can manage to supply the Ukrianian army, they can actually win this war. Unbelievable.
Adding to this is a literal quagmire for Russian forces when the frozen Ukrainian ground begins to thaw. They will ironically find themselves in the same position of invading Germans in WWII.
I had read that Russia has lost more troops in a month than the US lost in 20 years in Afghanistan. That's just crazy. Along with what Marty shared about how much ordinance the Ukrainian army is going through I'd say they have the upper hand.
I watched the first episode of Zelenskyy's sitcom on Netflix last night. It has a lot of nice shots of the city of Kyiv and it's hard to believe the city (and the country) is being shelled and destroyed.
(03-24-2022, 07:57 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting article in the Wall Street Journal this morning. Sorry if you encounter a pay wall.
==========================================================================================
https://www.wsj.com/articles/weapons-for...1648066417
RZESZOW, Poland—Day and night, truck convoys rumble through once quiet Polish border towns and villages. Giant military transport planes land several times an hour on the single runway at a local airport. Their cargo: weapons for the Ukrainian forces fighting to beat back Russia’s invading army.
Western security officials say their strategy initially envisaged equipping a nascent Ukrainian insurgency—recalling the transfer of weapons to mujahedeen fighters who defeated the Soviet Union in Afghanistan—that would employ guerrilla tactics against Russian occupiers.
Instead, because Ukraine’s military has managed to keep Moscow’s forces at bay in much of the country, the task has become equipping a regular army engaged in a large-scale conventional war.
“The Ukrainians are expending a lot of ordnance, and this is more than we anticipated,” said a Western security official. “We are trying to step up the flow of weapons to meet that new requirement and there are constant shortages.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-hum...krainenato
NATO estimated Russia has lost as much as one-fifth of its combat forces sent to Ukraine in about a month of fighting as President Biden and alliance leaders gathered in Brussels for a summit to discuss providing further support to Kyiv to repel the Russian invasion.
Between 7,000 and 15,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine and up to 40,000 Russian troops in total have been killed, wounded, taken prisoner or are missing, said a senior military official from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Russia may also have lost 10% of its equipment, impairing Moscow’s ability to maintain its pace of operations, said another NATO official.
============================================================================================================================================================
It's becoming more and more clear that if we can manage to supply the Ukrianian army, they can actually win this war. Unbelievable.
(03-24-2022, 10:04 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I had read that Russia has lost more troops in a month than the US lost in 20 years in Afghanistan. That's just crazy. Along with what Marty shared about how much ordinance the Ukrainian army is going through I'd say they have the upper hand.
I watched the first episode of Zelenskyy's sitcom on Netflix last night. It has a lot of nice shots of the city of Kyiv and it's hard to believe the city (and the country) is being shelled and destroyed.
It's all propaganda, Russian side is saying the opposite. The truth is in the middle somewhere. The arms movements are probably real as Russia said they bombed the base to destroy the arms being held there.
Ukraine won't win the war unless you define winning as Russia leaving Ukraine. Russia will leave, they can't really occupy them as it would take too much man power.
Look at the war maps that are being maintained online. Russia is using their normal strategy of cutting off retreat and the areas with the large Ukranian army are cut off for the most part. It's a slow process and they are taking loses in some areas but they aren't being driven back.
Lots of propaganda about civilians being targeted and killed. Russia then says Azov is keeping people in their basements and using civilian buildings and the people as human shields. Some of it is definitely true of using civilian buildings as there are videos but who knows about the rest. Russia put out a bunch of propaganda about people being freed by their troops and a bunch of people fleeing to the Russian border instead of Ukraine held points.
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The US Army's Green Berets quietly helped tilt the battlefield a little bit more toward Ukraine
The Army's Green Berets took on a critical role in helping train Ukrainian forces
The U.S. Army's Special Forces, better known as Green Berets, have had a deep impact on Ukraine's fight to defend itself from a Russian invasion, despite not being directly involved in the conflict.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-army...qEhvdyibSk
(03-24-2022, 11:04 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (03-24-2022, 07:57 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting article in the Wall Street Journal this morning. Sorry if you encounter a pay wall.
==========================================================================================
https://www.wsj.com/articles/weapons-for...1648066417
RZESZOW, Poland—Day and night, truck convoys rumble through once quiet Polish border towns and villages. Giant military transport planes land several times an hour on the single runway at a local airport. Their cargo: weapons for the Ukrainian forces fighting to beat back Russia’s invading army.
Western security officials say their strategy initially envisaged equipping a nascent Ukrainian insurgency—recalling the transfer of weapons to mujahedeen fighters who defeated the Soviet Union in Afghanistan—that would employ guerrilla tactics against Russian occupiers.
Instead, because Ukraine’s military has managed to keep Moscow’s forces at bay in much of the country, the task has become equipping a regular army engaged in a large-scale conventional war.
“The Ukrainians are expending a lot of ordnance, and this is more than we anticipated,” said a Western security official. “We are trying to step up the flow of weapons to meet that new requirement and there are constant shortages.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-hum...krainenato
NATO estimated Russia has lost as much as one-fifth of its combat forces sent to Ukraine in about a month of fighting as President Biden and alliance leaders gathered in Brussels for a summit to discuss providing further support to Kyiv to repel the Russian invasion.
Between 7,000 and 15,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine and up to 40,000 Russian troops in total have been killed, wounded, taken prisoner or are missing, said a senior military official from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Russia may also have lost 10% of its equipment, impairing Moscow’s ability to maintain its pace of operations, said another NATO official.
============================================================================================================================================================
It's becoming more and more clear that if we can manage to supply the Ukrianian army, they can actually win this war. Unbelievable.
(03-24-2022, 10:04 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I had read that Russia has lost more troops in a month than the US lost in 20 years in Afghanistan. That's just crazy. Along with what Marty shared about how much ordinance the Ukrainian army is going through I'd say they have the upper hand.
I watched the first episode of Zelenskyy's sitcom on Netflix last night. It has a lot of nice shots of the city of Kyiv and it's hard to believe the city (and the country) is being shelled and destroyed.
It's all propaganda, Russian side is saying the opposite. The truth is in the middle somewhere. The arms movements are probably real as Russia said they bombed the base to destroy the arms being held there.
Ukraine won't win the war unless you define winning as Russia leaving Ukraine. Russia will leave, they can't really occupy them as it would take too much man power.
Look at the war maps that are being maintained online. Russia is using their normal strategy of cutting off retreat and the areas with the large Ukranian army are cut off for the most part. It's a slow process and they are taking loses in some areas but they aren't being driven back.
Lots of propaganda about civilians being targeted and killed. Russia then says Azov is keeping people in their basements and using civilian buildings and the people as human shields. Some of it is definitely true of using civilian buildings as there are videos but who knows about the rest. Russia put out a bunch of propaganda about people being freed by their troops and a bunch of people fleeing to the Russian border instead of Ukraine held points.
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There are several reasons I don't believe anything the Russians say about this war, including the fact that they don't have a free press, they jail anyone who has a different opinion or wants to report anything that doesn't conform to what Putin wants them to say, and the very obvious lies they have told since before the war. They have zero credibility with me. I don't know why they would have any credibility with you.
On the other hand, if a Wall Street Journal reporter goes to Poland and reports on what he saw there, I tend to believe that. And I tend to believe reports from countries that have a free press, especially when those reports have been corroborated by other reporters and witnesses. Not to mention video I have seen myself, that has been verified by independent sources.
(03-24-2022, 11:26 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-24-2022, 11:04 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]It's all propaganda, Russian side is saying the opposite. The truth is in the middle somewhere. The arms movements are probably real as Russia said they bombed the base to destroy the arms being held there.
Ukraine won't win the war unless you define winning as Russia leaving Ukraine. Russia will leave, they can't really occupy them as it would take too much man power.
Look at the war maps that are being maintained online. Russia is using their normal strategy of cutting off retreat and the areas with the large Ukranian army are cut off for the most part. It's a slow process and they are taking loses in some areas but they aren't being driven back.
Lots of propaganda about civilians being targeted and killed. Russia then says Azov is keeping people in their basements and using civilian buildings and the people as human shields. Some of it is definitely true of using civilian buildings as there are videos but who knows about the rest. Russia put out a bunch of propaganda about people being freed by their troops and a bunch of people fleeing to the Russian border instead of Ukraine held points.
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
There are several reasons I don't believe anything the Russians say about this war, including the fact that they don't have a free press, they jail anyone who has a different opinion or wants to report anything that doesn't conform to what Putin wants them to say, and the very obvious lies they have told since before the war. They have zero credibility with me. I don't know why they would have any credibility with you.
On the other hand, if a Wall Street Journal reporter goes to Poland and reports on what he saw there, I tend to believe that. And I tend to believe reports from countries that have a free press, especially when those reports have been corroborated by other reporters and witnesses. Not to mention video I have seen myself, that has been verified by independent sources.
There are also well respected journalists that have covered wars their whole life, that are in Ukraine, saying the opposite. You just won't believe them because they aren't on a well respected channel or newspaper any more. Those same newspapers and channels just finished lying to you for 2 years about covid.
You can't trust either side. We know both are corrupt countries with long histories. You see the left calling out the corruption, nazis, etc a few years ago and now it's all Ukraine is great. The left is leading a PR campaign and you need to ask yourself why they are doing it.
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(03-24-2022, 10:52 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Russian military radio calls intercepted. Ukrainians mock.
Click the NYT link in the article to see and hear.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainians-mo...49516.html
I watched it earlier on youtube. At one point a Russian says something and the radio jammer plays the tune the General Lee made on Dukes of Hazzard, the name of which escapes me right now. Some confederate thing. I snickered.
![[Image: obit.jpg]](https://rlcole.tripod.com/political/obit.jpg)