Our experience in Vietnam started with widespread public support, and the administration saying everything was going swimmingly. Then, as the war dragged on, we started drafting people, and the public support eroded away fairly quickly. The hawks demanded escalation, and Johnson followed that course, because to admit defeat was too humiliating. So he just pushed more troops into Vietnam, the casualties mounted, and the United States was torn apart. We have documentary evidence, including tape recordings, that reveal that the Johnson administration knew the war was not winnable, and yet they saw no other course but to continue. They were hoping for a miracle.
This callup of 300,000 reservists is the first time the war in Ukraine has come home to the Russian people. Putin is refusing the admit that the "special operation" has failed. He needs to reform his army, but that starts with admitting reality. These 300,000 troops he's called up will have to be trained, and equipped, and they'll have to be fed and clothed when they are in the field. That will take months at a minimum. And then, how do you motivate them? And they'll go into the same command structure where no one can do anything without orders. Those 300,000 draftees will have one goal, not to win the war in Ukraine, but to survive the war in Ukraine.
As for the prospect of Putin using a nuclear weapon, I don't see a target for a nuclear weapon, other than a city. Ukrainian troops are spread out; they concentrate immediately before an attack. If the Russians use a nuclear weapon in defense of their own troops, they'll kill as many Russian troops as Ukrainian troops.
(09-23-2022, 05:38 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Our experience in Vietnam started with widespread public support, and the administration saying everything was going swimmingly. Then, as the war dragged on, we started drafting people, and the public support eroded away fairly quickly. The hawks demanded escalation, and Johnson followed that course, because to admit defeat was too humiliating. So he just pushed more troops into Vietnam, the casualties mounted, and the United States was torn apart. We have documentary evidence, including tape recordings, that reveal that the Johnson administration knew the war was not winnable, and yet they saw no other course but to continue. They were hoping for a miracle.
This callup of 300,000 reservists is the first time the war in Ukraine has come home to the Russian people. Putin is refusing the admit that the "special operation" has failed. He needs to reform his army, but that starts with admitting reality. These 300,000 troops he's called up will have to be trained, and equipped, and they'll have to be fed and clothed when they are in the field. That will take months at a minimum. And then, how do you motivate them? And they'll go into the same command structure where no one can do anything without orders. Those 300,000 draftees will have one goal, not to win the war in Ukraine, but to survive the war in Ukraine.
As for the prospect of Putin using a nuclear weapon, I don't see a target for a nuclear weapon, other than a city. Ukrainian troops are spread out; they concentrate immediately before an attack. If the Russians use a nuclear weapon in defense of their own troops, they'll kill as many Russian troops as Ukrainian troops.
What makes you say the special operation has failed?
The MSM is/has been saying it failed but it doesn't appear to have failed per the goals the Russians have been saying all long. You can't solely look at things through the narrative that you know they will shape to whatever they want it to be.
If the referendums fail, then the operation was not successful. It won't be a complete failure as they have disposed of 1,000s of terrible human beings who constantly attacked innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine. Russia also meet it's goal of stopping the NATO advancement and keeping nukes out of Ukraine. They had the added bonus of the West sinking billions of dollars and weapons into a failed country with no results. Then those same countries are about to have riots and overthrow their governments when they can't pay for gas and are starving and freezing.
If you remove yourself from the feelings and trying to decide who is right or wrong, this has not been a failure for Russia.
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(09-23-2022, 10:01 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (09-23-2022, 05:38 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Our experience in Vietnam started with widespread public support, and the administration saying everything was going swimmingly. Then, as the war dragged on, we started drafting people, and the public support eroded away fairly quickly. The hawks demanded escalation, and Johnson followed that course, because to admit defeat was too humiliating. So he just pushed more troops into Vietnam, the casualties mounted, and the United States was torn apart. We have documentary evidence, including tape recordings, that reveal that the Johnson administration knew the war was not winnable, and yet they saw no other course but to continue. They were hoping for a miracle.
This callup of 300,000 reservists is the first time the war in Ukraine has come home to the Russian people. Putin is refusing the admit that the "special operation" has failed. He needs to reform his army, but that starts with admitting reality. These 300,000 troops he's called up will have to be trained, and equipped, and they'll have to be fed and clothed when they are in the field. That will take months at a minimum. And then, how do you motivate them? And they'll go into the same command structure where no one can do anything without orders. Those 300,000 draftees will have one goal, not to win the war in Ukraine, but to survive the war in Ukraine.
As for the prospect of Putin using a nuclear weapon, I don't see a target for a nuclear weapon, other than a city. Ukrainian troops are spread out; they concentrate immediately before an attack. If the Russians use a nuclear weapon in defense of their own troops, they'll kill as many Russian troops as Ukrainian troops.
What makes you say the special operation has failed?
The MSM is/has been saying it failed but it doesn't appear to have failed per the goals the Russians have been saying all long. You can't solely look at things through the narrative that you know they will shape to whatever they want it to be.
If the referendums fail, then the operation was not successful. It won't be a complete failure as they have disposed of 1,000s of terrible human beings who constantly attacked innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine. Russia also meet it's goal of stopping the NATO advancement and keeping nukes out of Ukraine. They had the added bonus of the West sinking billions of dollars and weapons into a failed country with no results. Then those same countries are about to have riots and overthrow their governments when they can't pay for gas and are starving and freezing.
If you remove yourself from the feelings and trying to decide who is right or wrong, this has not been a failure for Russia.
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What planet are you on? Do you actually believe what you just wrote?
Firing your own generals, calling up 300,000 reservists and threatening nuclear war is not a sign of success. All they've accomplished is to show the world how much the Russian army sucks. At a price of billions in lost and abandoned equipment and thousands of dead soldiers.
As for stopping NATO, did you not notice that Sweden and Finland have applied for NATO membership since this war started?
But actually, I hope Putin believes what you said. Then maybe he can declare victory and stop this madness.
(09-23-2022, 10:26 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (09-23-2022, 10:01 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]What makes you say the special operation has failed?
The MSM is/has been saying it failed but it doesn't appear to have failed per the goals the Russians have been saying all long. You can't solely look at things through the narrative that you know they will shape to whatever they want it to be.
If the referendums fail, then the operation was not successful. It won't be a complete failure as they have disposed of 1,000s of terrible human beings who constantly attacked innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine. Russia also meet it's goal of stopping the NATO advancement and keeping nukes out of Ukraine. They had the added bonus of the West sinking billions of dollars and weapons into a failed country with no results. Then those same countries are about to have riots and overthrow their governments when they can't pay for gas and are starving and freezing.
If you remove yourself from the feelings and trying to decide who is right or wrong, this has not been a failure for Russia.
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What planet are you on? Do you actually believe what you just wrote?
Firing your own generals, calling up 300,000 reservists and threatening nuclear war is not a sign of success. All they've accomplished is to show the world how much the Russian army sucks. At a price of billions in lost and abandoned equipment and thousands of dead soldiers.
As for stopping NATO, did you not notice that Sweden and Finland have applied for NATO membership since this war started?
But actually, I hope Putin believes what you said. Then maybe he can declare victory and stop this madness.
You have stated feelings. No factual information and no stated goals. If you can't even state 1 goal but then you and MSM use that to constantly move the goalposts.
You do know what happened to after Russia left the NE territory right? They bombed all the troops, equipment, and stockpiles that were sent there. Why did the counter attack stop? Could it be because they got flattened by bombs?
It's obvious what Russia wants right now. It's new territory. Why do you think they are calling up 300,000 men? They know the referendums will pass and then they will need to rotate out the troops like they have been doing the whole time.
At least look at the independent reports that are reporting on this. Russia isn't losing unless you think their goal was to take over Ukraine.
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Marty seems to struggle with the idea that the news he consumes is dishonest. It's not ALWAYS dishonest, but it's worse than he can bring himself to admit.
(09-24-2022, 12:48 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Marty seems to struggle with the idea that the news he consumes is dishonest. It's not ALWAYS dishonest, but it's worse than he can bring himself to admit.
Putin has fired his top generals that were directing the operation in Ukraine. He has called up 300,000 reservists. He has threatened nuclear war. Sweden and Finland have applied to join NATO as a result of this invasion of Ukraine. Do you dispute any of that?
If Russia had some sort of master plan to abandon the region the Ukrainians took back in the counteroffensive, why did they also abandon their equipment and supplies?
What am I saying here that you think is not true?
You have an overwhelming confidence that you can tell fact from fiction, and yet you get your "facts" from the Russian Ministry of Information. You said so yourself in a post and you edited it out. You would reject the testimony of a thousand witnesses if they contradicted your personal beliefs. You tell me what I said above that is not true.
(09-24-2022, 04:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Putin has fired his top generals that were directing the operation in Ukraine.
Do you understand what normally happens when generals are replaced in Russia? Groups are replaced and it's normal. 'Fired' is added by Western sources to try and say Russia is failing.
The truth is in the middle. Russia has taken a very slow approach and appears to be minimizing civilian causality as much as possible. That's caused them more loses and takes a lot longer. Wars have different phases so it wouldn't be odd to switch generals if you needed different expertise. Russia has outdated generals that may not want to fight anymore and were comfortable with the peace they have had. So definitely could see some being replaced because of performance.
(09-24-2022, 04:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]He has called up 300,000 reservists.
This doesn't really matter like you think it does. It takes troops to secure the large new territory that will become part of Russia. Russia also rotates troops so not sure if you are aware of that.
(09-24-2022, 04:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]He has threatened nuclear war.
Not exactly what was said. Sure your sources paint it like that but he said he would defend Russian territory if attacked and would use all capabilities they have. He said they have nuclear weapons as everyone knows but also other more advanced weapons.
(09-24-2022, 04:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Sweden and Finland have applied to join NATO as a result of this invasion of Ukraine.
Both of those countries are now in revolts against those leaders who did that. Let's see if the application isn't resolved once the winter without power happens and the power get rid of the rest of the leaders.
(09-24-2022, 04:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]If Russia had some sort of master plan to abandon the region the Ukrainians took back in the counteroffensive, why did they also abandon their equipment and supplies?
You said they left billions of dollars of equipment. Show the billions of equipment that were left and not the same images shared over and over. Withdrawal on foot is slower and not safer. You leave equipment if it doesn't run. You are also assuming the equipment was actually Russian to begin with. Russia already captured plenty of equipment. Equipment from both sides have previously been destroyed and it still sits where it was destroyed unless it had usable parts.
You have no way of knowing anything about a piece of equipment left and it's pure speculation by Western sources.
Leaving supplies again has no context. Ukraine left tons of supplies, some were rigged to explode. Russia brought in humanitarian supplies so did they leave those? Did they rig some supplies as traps? Did they use supplies and weapon caches as a Russian tactic, yes they do this, when withdrawing and then bomb those locations?
(09-24-2022, 04:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]You have an overwhelming confidence that you can tell fact from fiction, and yet you get your "facts" from the Russian Ministry of Information. You said so yourself in a post and you edited it out. You would reject the testimony of a thousand witnesses if they contradicted your personal beliefs. You tell me what I said above that is not true.
You are viewing everything through lenses that Russia is pure evil and Ukraine good. Russia must be stopped at all costs. Everything is presented as failure by Russia because you and the media refuse to even believe Russia doesn't want to takeover Ukraine even though they have never said it.
There aren't thousands of witnesses on the Ukrainian side. There are that many videos on Russian side and more. Both sides put out constant PR. You need to look at different sources on both sides, look at independent sources who are there on the ground, and wait a few days for the truth to come out.
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Putin looks to be having problems with his draft
Saw an article today that said the west is starting to run short of weapons and ammo to send to Ukraine. It takes a long time to ramp up defense industries.
With the news about the Russians running short of weapons also, I wonder if the war might wind down for lack of weapons and ammo.
https://www.grid.news/story/global/2022/...f-weapons/
There's never a shortage of rocks and sticks. Hate finds a way.
(09-28-2022, 10:23 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]So the Nord Stream pipe line was blown to hell. I have no doubt it was the Biden admin. He is trying to get Putin to use nukes.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vid...r-AA12lvRV
So if Russia starts tossing nukes, you're going to blame it on the United States?
(09-28-2022, 11:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (09-28-2022, 10:23 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]So the Nord Stream pipe line was blown to hell. I have no doubt it was the Biden admin. He is trying to get Putin to use nukes.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vid...r-AA12lvRV
So if Russia starts tossing nukes, you're going to blame it on the United States?
No, just an illegitimate, incompetent, ideological driven US Government. He’s backing Putin into a corner. I’ve read reports that Putin is seriously ill, and Putin suffers from “short man disease”. He’s a short macho man that has something to prove. I’m not sure he wouldn’t use nukes, just so not to be the only one too lose.
So Ya, I would put a lot of blame at Biden’s government, most of it…
But don’t worry, if he uses one , everyone will. And we won’t be around too complain.
This whole war is on the Biden administration.
(09-28-2022, 01:21 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]This whole war is on the Biden administration.
Dude, all of our misery. Stolen elections have consequences.
(09-28-2022, 07:31 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]So predictable.
If you're not going to contest the layup don't be surprised when I take it.
(09-28-2022, 08:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Saw an article today that said the west is starting to run short of weapons and ammo to send to Ukraine. It takes a long time to ramp up defense industries.
With the news about the Russians running short of weapons also, I wonder if the war might wind down for lack of weapons and ammo.
https://www.grid.news/story/global/2022/...f-weapons/
That news has been out there for months. The US was said to be pulling some weapons from active duty soldiers to send to Ukraine. I really hope that wasn't true but with Biden I can't completely rule it out.
Russia has said to been running out for longer. No one knows how many Russia has because everyone has tried to isolate Russia and they have had to turn within and make things themselves. So they could be running out or they could have plenty more.
(09-28-2022, 10:23 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]So the Nord Stream pipe line was blown to hell. I have no doubt it was the Biden admin. He is trying to get Putin to use nukes.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vid...r-AA12lvRV
The US is really the only one that would benefit. Biden has ties to natural gas and Ukraine. The pipeline was already shutdown by Russia and they control it. Germany and other EU countries need the pipeline after the war is over or they freeze as a country.
So Russia and EU countries wouldn't have done anything to the pipeline. The US is the largest exporter now to the EU. Biden may still be getting kickbacks from all the connections there. As long as the war drags on, no EU country can get Russian gas. EU countries were on the verge of revolting and forcing their leadership to resume the pipeline.
Now there are no options for the EU. The pipelines are dead so they can't enter into a treaty with Russia and get gas.
US special forces divers and remote drones were practicing in the area in the last few weeks. Norway or maybe another country claims to have evidence there were 2 explosions in the area. Russia says it was sabotage and they have some evidence. Other countries said Russia had ships and subs in the area in the last few days.
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