(03-08-2023, 11:54 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2023, 11:43 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I don't doubt they would have more clout, but not more than the U.S. strictly because no country in the world has our natural resources and protective barriers.
We agree it would be a closer call.
If the Russians let the eastern European nations, especially Poland, have free and fair elections before 1950, the EU might have formed more quickly and NATO might never have formed at all. America may have reverted to isolationism if the Russians were playing nice. The whole Cold War competition doesn't happen the same way. While both sides would have developed rockets and satellites, manned space flight might not have been emphasized as much. The US would be less involved in Europe, and, depending on whether the UK decides to join the EU, perhaps English would not become the common language of the EU. Perhaps by now it might be French or German or even Russian. The influence of speaking the common language is huge. Losing that would change a lot.
Which explains the enigma of Russia. They do not act wisely for their own good. A country with such a brain trust has throughout history acted with brutality and indifference to not only others, but especially to their own. Paranoia is an exquisite Russian character.
(03-09-2023, 12:03 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2023, 11:54 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]We agree it would be a closer call.
If the Russians let the eastern European nations, especially Poland, have free and fair elections before 1950, the EU might have formed more quickly and NATO might never have formed at all. America may have reverted to isolationism if the Russians were playing nice. The whole Cold War competition doesn't happen the same way. While both sides would have developed rockets and satellites, manned space flight might not have been emphasized as much. The US would be less involved in Europe, and, depending on whether the UK decides to join the EU, perhaps English would not become the common language of the EU. Perhaps by now it might be French or German or even Russian. The influence of speaking the common language is huge. Losing that would change a lot.
Which explains the enigma of Russia. They do not act wisely for their own good. A country with such a brain trust has throughout history acted with brutality and indifference to not only others, but especially to their own. Paranoia is an exquisite Russian character.
In World War 1, fed up Russian troops returning from the battlefield were a force propelling the 1917 Revolution that brought down the Czar. From news reports, it seems Russia still has this military doctrine of throwing troops at the enemy no matter how many get slaughtered. And yet, from watching on-the-street interviews with Russians, they seem to be either loyal to Putin or resigned to the fact that they can do nothing about it.
This guy has an interesting channel:
(1) Russians look at pictures of destroyed Ukrainian city (Bakhmut) - YouTube
It's an interesting war. It's a shame our Government is linked to it and providing support for it though. Ukraine and Russia are both guilty of corruption and both cannot be trusted in the grand scheme of things. Not a fan of Putin, for obvious reasons. I am also not a fan of Zelenskyy.
I can see why Russia is pushing back towards the West on this though. Whether we like it or not. Care to admit it or not. It's a fact. NATO and any country in bed with NATO, especially closer to the Eastern border are going to continue to be at risk and at odds with Russia and/or potentially China at some point if this keeps dragging out.
At some point a line had to be drawn in the sand. It's not Russia encroaching on us. It's NATO and our Government encroaching on them. Are we also going to continue like the nord stream pipeline was an acceptable measure taken in this conflict? With clearly our US agencies involved? It's a pretty [BLEEP] thing to do in general.
(03-09-2023, 10:54 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's an interesting war. It's a shame our Government is linked to it and providing support for it though. Ukraine and Russia are both guilty of corruption and both cannot be trusted in the grand scheme of things. Not a fan of Putin, for obvious reasons. I am also not a fan of Zelenskyy.
I can see why Russia is pushing back towards the West on this though. Whether we like it or not. Care to admit it or not. It's a fact. NATO and any country in bed with NATO, especially closer to the Eastern border are going to continue to be at risk and at odds with Russia and/or potentially China at some point if this keeps dragging out.
At some point a line had to be drawn in the sand. It's not Russia encroaching on us. It's NATO and our Government encroaching on them. Are we also going to continue like the nord stream pipeline was an acceptable measure taken in this conflict? With clearly our US agencies involved? It's a pretty [BLEEP] thing to do in general.
So when an independent country wants to align itself with the West, then it's okay for a neighboring country to invade them, level their cities, and slaughter their citizens? Hitler found all sorts of excuses for invading other countries, just like Putin.
Nato has never attacked anyone. Nato is a defensive alliance. Russia invading Ukraine is a great example of why so many countries want to join Nato. And Russia invading Ukraine is causing the very thing the Russians say is a threat to them.
Russia is wrong, and we are right to stand up to them on this.
(03-09-2023, 11:46 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2023, 10:54 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's an interesting war. It's a shame our Government is linked to it and providing support for it though. Ukraine and Russia are both guilty of corruption and both cannot be trusted in the grand scheme of things. Not a fan of Putin, for obvious reasons. I am also not a fan of Zelenskyy.
I can see why Russia is pushing back towards the West on this though. Whether we like it or not. Care to admit it or not. It's a fact. NATO and any country in bed with NATO, especially closer to the Eastern border are going to continue to be at risk and at odds with Russia and/or potentially China at some point if this keeps dragging out.
At some point a line had to be drawn in the sand. It's not Russia encroaching on us. It's NATO and our Government encroaching on them. Are we also going to continue like the nord stream pipeline was an acceptable measure taken in this conflict? With clearly our US agencies involved? It's a pretty [BLEEP] thing to do in general.
So when an independent country wants to align itself with the West, then it's okay for a neighboring country to invade them, level their cities, and slaughter their citizens? Hitler found all sorts of excuses for invading other countries, just like Putin.
Nato has never attacked anyone. Nato is a defensive alliance. Russia invading Ukraine is a great example of why so many countries want to join Nato. And Russia invading Ukraine is causing the very thing the Russians say is a threat to them.
Russia is wrong, and we are right to stand up to them on this.
Agreed it's shocking to me how many people I see online siding with Russia as some last stand against a NWO. Seriously the guy in bed with China, Iran, and North Korea is your knight in shining armor?
(03-09-2023, 11:46 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2023, 10:54 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's an interesting war. It's a shame our Government is linked to it and providing support for it though. Ukraine and Russia are both guilty of corruption and both cannot be trusted in the grand scheme of things. Not a fan of Putin, for obvious reasons. I am also not a fan of Zelenskyy.
I can see why Russia is pushing back towards the West on this though. Whether we like it or not. Care to admit it or not. It's a fact. NATO and any country in bed with NATO, especially closer to the Eastern border are going to continue to be at risk and at odds with Russia and/or potentially China at some point if this keeps dragging out.
At some point a line had to be drawn in the sand. It's not Russia encroaching on us. It's NATO and our Government encroaching on them. Are we also going to continue like the nord stream pipeline was an acceptable measure taken in this conflict? With clearly our US agencies involved? It's a pretty [BLEEP] thing to do in general.
So when an independent country wants to align itself with the West, then it's okay for a neighboring country to invade them, level their cities, and slaughter their citizens? Hitler found all sorts of excuses for invading other countries, just like Putin.
Nato has never attacked anyone. Nato is a defensive alliance. Russia invading Ukraine is a great example of why so many countries want to join Nato. And Russia invading Ukraine is causing the very thing the Russians say is a threat to them.
Russia is wrong, and we are right to stand up to them on this.
That's the problem right there, with war. There is no right or wrong. The west will cry the east is bad and the east will cry the west is bad. It's a two way street, Marty.
It's rich to hear an American bring up Hitler knowing full well our own Government has done equally and just as bad [BLEEP] globally. Operation Paperclip pardoned a number of Hitler's boys, did you know that? We got NASA out of it. Look that [BLEEP] up.
Did you know American Industrialists funded both sides of the war? Did you know Ford motor company sued our Government and WON post WWII because we bombed their manufacturing plants during wartimes when they had their motors inside German military vehicles and tanks?
You don't find it a little odd that we have military bases dotted everywhere? Including in the east?
NATO is an arm and hammer awaiting it's opportunity to flex and strike. Just like we do. Just like any other formation or country does. Don't [BLEEP] yourself. If it was the other way around we would be begging for Biden to be an [BLEEP].
The West has been increasingly meddling in EVERYBODY's affairs. EVERYBODY's. South America, the Middle East, Africa, Western Europe, Eastern Europe. You name it. We've been there and done it. And we've left a handful of reminders in bases to [BLEEP] let you know.
Easy for you to say.
(03-09-2023, 12:38 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2023, 11:46 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So when an independent country wants to align itself with the West, then it's okay for a neighboring country to invade them, level their cities, and slaughter their citizens? Hitler found all sorts of excuses for invading other countries, just like Putin.
Nato has never attacked anyone. Nato is a defensive alliance. Russia invading Ukraine is a great example of why so many countries want to join Nato. And Russia invading Ukraine is causing the very thing the Russians say is a threat to them.
Russia is wrong, and we are right to stand up to them on this.
Agreed it's shocking to me how many people I see online siding with Russia as some last stand against a NWO. Seriously the guy in bed with China, Iran, and North Korea is your knight in shining armor?
Newsflash buddy. They're all in bed together. Including us "White Knights" over here. Everything is a rich man's trick. Don't care if you rock our flag or the China Red flag. We're all the same [BLEEP] heads at the end of the day. You keep swallowing that lunch meat though that the 5 O'clock news tells you that makes us so star spangled awesome.
Until we, the people, band together and overthrow this [BLEEP] political system here that we have? The whole world will remain at odds and we'll continue to be fear mongered with fear porn and threats of war every year. Just like our great grandparents, just like our grandparents, just like our parents, just like our friends and family members now.
(03-09-2023, 02:18 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2023, 11:46 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So when an independent country wants to align itself with the West, then it's okay for a neighboring country to invade them, level their cities, and slaughter their citizens? Hitler found all sorts of excuses for invading other countries, just like Putin.
Nato has never attacked anyone. Nato is a defensive alliance. Russia invading Ukraine is a great example of why so many countries want to join Nato. And Russia invading Ukraine is causing the very thing the Russians say is a threat to them.
Russia is wrong, and we are right to stand up to them on this.
That's the problem right there, with war. There is no right or wrong. The west will cry the east is bad and the east will cry the west is bad. It's a two way street, Marty.
It's rich to hear an American bring up Hitler knowing full well our own Government has done equally and just as bad [BLEEP] globally. Operation Paperclip pardoned a number of Hitler's boys, did you know that? We got NASA out of it. Look that [BLEEP] up.
Did you know American Industrialists funded both sides of the war? Did you know Ford motor company sued our Government and WON post WWII because we bombed their manufacturing plants during wartimes when they had their motors inside German military vehicles and tanks?
You don't find it a little odd that we have military bases dotted everywhere? Including in the east?
NATO is an arm and hammer awaiting it's opportunity to flex and strike. Just like we do. Just like any other formation or country does. Don't [BLEEP] yourself. If it was the other way around we would be begging for Biden to be an [BLEEP].
The West has been increasingly meddling in EVERYBODY's affairs. EVERYBODY's. South America, the Middle East, Africa, Western Europe, Eastern Europe. You name it. We've been there and done it. And we've left a handful of reminders in bases to [BLEEP] let you know.
Easy for you to say.
(03-09-2023, 12:38 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed it's shocking to me how many people I see online siding with Russia as some last stand against a NWO. Seriously the guy in bed with China, Iran, and North Korea is your knight in shining armor?
Newsflash buddy. They're all in bed together. Including us "White Knights" over here. Everything is a rich man's trick. Don't care if you rock our flag or the China Red flag. We're all the same [BLEEP] heads at the end of the day. You keep swallowing that lunch meat though that the 5 O'clock news tells you that makes us so star spangled awesome.
Until we, the people, band together and overthrow this [BLEEP] political system here that we have? The whole world will remain at odds and we'll continue to be fear mongered with fear porn and threats of war every year. Just like our great grandparents, just like our grandparents, just like our parents, just like our friends and family members now.
Deep breath buddy we're not that far off but I think your buying into obvious Russian propaganda. I'm the first to quarm with the US government especially at the federal level. I'll go along with you down the rabbit hole on lots of stuff. Maybe we faked the moon landing, maybe 911 was an insider job, maybe Osama was a CIA asset, maybe the CIA killed Kennedy, and so on. That said there is undeniable evil in the world. China, Iran and North Korea represent some of the most oppressive and centralized authoritarian regimes since Hitler's Germany. IF you want to make the argument Putin is standing against the secret NWO the big bad guy in every conspiracy theory you loose all credibility when he gets in bed with the trio of authoritarian regimes.
I've noticed my social media flooded with Russian propaganda, I've listened to the alt right talk shoes and podcast where many claim Putin is a moral Christian man restoring morality to the east. I don't buy it, not for a minute. So yea if I have to pick between the extremely flawed NATO and the United States or the BRICS countries I'll wrap my redneck [BLEEP] in the flag and cuddle up to uncle Sam until war time is over. Then we can go back to checking each other.
(03-09-2023, 05:46 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2023, 02:18 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]That's the problem right there, with war. There is no right or wrong. The west will cry the east is bad and the east will cry the west is bad. It's a two way street, Marty.
It's rich to hear an American bring up Hitler knowing full well our own Government has done equally and just as bad [BLEEP] globally. Operation Paperclip pardoned a number of Hitler's boys, did you know that? We got NASA out of it. Look that [BLEEP] up.
Did you know American Industrialists funded both sides of the war? Did you know Ford motor company sued our Government and WON post WWII because we bombed their manufacturing plants during wartimes when they had their motors inside German military vehicles and tanks?
You don't find it a little odd that we have military bases dotted everywhere? Including in the east?
NATO is an arm and hammer awaiting it's opportunity to flex and strike. Just like we do. Just like any other formation or country does. Don't [BLEEP] yourself. If it was the other way around we would be begging for Biden to be an [BLEEP].
The West has been increasingly meddling in EVERYBODY's affairs. EVERYBODY's. South America, the Middle East, Africa, Western Europe, Eastern Europe. You name it. We've been there and done it. And we've left a handful of reminders in bases to [BLEEP] let you know.
Easy for you to say.
Newsflash buddy. They're all in bed together. Including us "White Knights" over here. Everything is a rich man's trick. Don't care if you rock our flag or the China Red flag. We're all the same [BLEEP] heads at the end of the day. You keep swallowing that lunch meat though that the 5 O'clock news tells you that makes us so star spangled awesome.
Until we, the people, band together and overthrow this [BLEEP] political system here that we have? The whole world will remain at odds and we'll continue to be fear mongered with fear porn and threats of war every year. Just like our great grandparents, just like our grandparents, just like our parents, just like our friends and family members now.
Deep breath buddy we're not that far off but I think your buying into obvious Russian propaganda. I'm the first to quarm with the US government especially at the federal level. I'll go along with you down the rabbit hole on lots of stuff. Maybe we faked the moon landing, maybe 911 was an insider job, maybe Osama was a CIA asset, maybe the CIA killed Kennedy, and so on. That said there is undeniable evil in the world. China, Iran and North Korea represent some of the most oppressive and centralized authoritarian regimes since Hitler's Germany. IF you want to make the argument Putin is standing against the secret NWO the big bad guy in every conspiracy theory you loose all credibility when he gets in bed with the trio of authoritarian regimes.
I've noticed my social media flooded with Russian propaganda, I've listened to the alt right talk shoes and podcast where many claim Putin is a moral Christian man restoring morality to the east. I don't buy it, not for a minute. So yea if I have to pick between the extremely flawed NATO and the United States or the BRICS countries I'll wrap my redneck [BLEEP] in the flag and cuddle up to uncle Sam until war time is over. Then we can go back to checking each other.
As previously stated. Not a fan of Putin. For obvious reasons. Not a fan of Zelenskyy. The whole "NWO" thing is a moot point. That's been set in motion for decades. Again, everything is a rich man's trick.
From Presidents to Kings or Dictators to Queens. There's always been a willing and able Plutocracy or Aristocratic class looking to wheel and deal for their benefit.
I try to see the angle from both sides and from both perspectives when an argument, fight or problem is up for debate. I don't have a dog in this fight with Ukraine and Russia.
I personally think our Government should stop trying to be an Intervening presence on a global scale. It reeks of egotism and it's extremely and deeply rooted in hypocrisy.
Especially when it comes to our own country. This doesn't mean I hate being an American or that I side with the East. It just means that I prefer to tread carefully in a mire riddled with [BLEEP] and nonsense typically propagandized by the Plutocracy that I mentioned earlier.
Almost every major war has had a fundraiser, a sponsor and a beneficiary behind the scenes. War is truly a racket. That's why I don't get swept up in it all. I think the East and West are both guilty of pride and National pride in general. I think we're all being mislead by a higher power.
Not talking about God here neither. I just think our system is rigged and it's high time it was hung upside down and shaken up to expose the crooks and cronies out in the open.
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(03-09-2023, 05:46 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2023, 02:18 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]That's the problem right there, with war. There is no right or wrong. The west will cry the east is bad and the east will cry the west is bad. It's a two way street, Marty.
It's rich to hear an American bring up Hitler knowing full well our own Government has done equally and just as bad [BLEEP] globally. Operation Paperclip pardoned a number of Hitler's boys, did you know that? We got NASA out of it. Look that [BLEEP] up.
Did you know American Industrialists funded both sides of the war? Did you know Ford motor company sued our Government and WON post WWII because we bombed their manufacturing plants during wartimes when they had their motors inside German military vehicles and tanks?
You don't find it a little odd that we have military bases dotted everywhere? Including in the east?
NATO is an arm and hammer awaiting it's opportunity to flex and strike. Just like we do. Just like any other formation or country does. Don't [BLEEP] yourself. If it was the other way around we would be begging for Biden to be an [BLEEP].
The West has been increasingly meddling in EVERYBODY's affairs. EVERYBODY's. South America, the Middle East, Africa, Western Europe, Eastern Europe. You name it. We've been there and done it. And we've left a handful of reminders in bases to [BLEEP] let you know.
Easy for you to say.
Newsflash buddy. They're all in bed together. Including us "White Knights" over here. Everything is a rich man's trick. Don't care if you rock our flag or the China Red flag. We're all the same [BLEEP] heads at the end of the day. You keep swallowing that lunch meat though that the 5 O'clock news tells you that makes us so star spangled awesome.
Until we, the people, band together and overthrow this [BLEEP] political system here that we have? The whole world will remain at odds and we'll continue to be fear mongered with fear porn and threats of war every year. Just like our great grandparents, just like our grandparents, just like our parents, just like our friends and family members now.
Deep breath buddy we're not that far off but I think your buying into obvious Russian propaganda. I'm the first to quarm with the US government especially at the federal level. I'll go along with you down the rabbit hole on lots of stuff. Maybe we faked the moon landing, maybe 911 was an insider job, maybe Osama was a CIA asset, maybe the CIA killed Kennedy, and so on. That said there is undeniable evil in the world. China, Iran and North Korea represent some of the most oppressive and centralized authoritarian regimes since Hitler's Germany. IF you want to make the argument Putin is standing against the secret NWO the big bad guy in every conspiracy theory you loose all credibility when he gets in bed with the trio of authoritarian regimes.
I've noticed my social media flooded with Russian propaganda, I've listened to the alt right talk shoes and podcast where many claim Putin is a moral Christian man restoring morality to the east. I don't buy it, not for a minute. So yea if I have to pick between the extremely flawed NATO and the United States or the BRICS countries I'll wrap my redneck [BLEEP] in the flag and cuddle up to uncle Sam until war time is over. Then we can go back to checking each other.
You don't have to pick. It can be true that Putin is an opportunist who believes he needs to expand certain parts of Russia to compete globally AND that the US has given him the excuse due to their own arrogance and greed. I know it's super American to only consider other nations aggressionists, but that's just not true. We interfered in Ukranian elections, installed a puppet, and encouraged their NATO membership for OUR strategic advantage. This [BLEEP] isn't happening in a bubble, man. Our leaders are antagonists, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
Who the hell is stupid enough to think Putin is a Christian and moral man? And say it out loud? Lol.
(03-26-2023, 10:01 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]The U.S. Volunteers in Ukraine Who Lie, Waste and Bicker (msn.com)
KYIV, UKRAINE — They rushed to Ukraine by the thousands, many of them Americans who promised to bring military experience, money or supplies to the battleground of a righteous war. Hometown newspapers hailed their commitment, and donors backed them with millions of dollars.
Now, after a year of combat, many of these homespun groups of volunteers are fighting with themselves and undermining the war effort. Some have wasted money or stolen valor. Others have cloaked themselves in charity while also trying to profit off the war, records show...
"Such characters have a place in Ukraine’s defense because of the arms-length role the United States has taken: The Biden administration sends weapons and money but not professional troops. That means people who would not be allowed anywhere near the battlefield in a U.S.-led war are active on the Ukrainian front — often with unchecked access to weapons and military equipment."
That's what happens with incompetent leadership and lack of checks and balances to properly vet people. G.I JOE!
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(03-26-2023, 07:56 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-26-2023, 10:01 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]The U.S. Volunteers in Ukraine Who Lie, Waste and Bicker (msn.com)
KYIV, UKRAINE — They rushed to Ukraine by the thousands, many of them Americans who promised to bring military experience, money or supplies to the battleground of a righteous war. Hometown newspapers hailed their commitment, and donors backed them with millions of dollars.
Now, after a year of combat, many of these homespun groups of volunteers are fighting with themselves and undermining the war effort. Some have wasted money or stolen valor. Others have cloaked themselves in charity while also trying to profit off the war, records show...
"Such characters have a place in Ukraine’s defense because of the arms-length role the United States has taken: The Biden administration sends weapons and money but not professional troops. That means people who would not be allowed anywhere near the battlefield in a U.S.-led war are active on the Ukrainian front — often with unchecked access to weapons and military equipment."
That's what happens with incompetent leadership and lack of checks and balances to properly vet people. G.I JOE!
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
If the Ukrainian military isn't vetting them that's their problem, though early on I imagine they were just grateful for people to wanted to fight.
There is a really good limited docuseries on Amazon called
Hunting ISIS that followed several combat veterans from the US (and other countries) who went to Syria and Iraq back in 2017 or so to fight against ISIS alongside local militias. There are legit volunteer combat soldiers who go overseas to fight. Sadly there are also shady characters who want to take advantage of a situation.
The series isn't free on Prime anymore but is worth the $10 to buy the season.
Just checking in on the status of the war... how's that going?
(04-01-2023, 09:50 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Just checking in on the status of the war... how's that going?
Not too bad.. Only throwing a couple more BILLION at them to help keep the peace.
![[Image: 20230401-141120.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/qRNsfCnY/20230401-141120.jpg)
There's a good chance Ukraine is about to lose this war. If they do... I want every person here who blindly repeated establishment talking points to eat crow, and admit they are being fed [BLEEP] information.
(04-01-2023, 10:17 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]There's a good chance Ukraine is about to lose this war. If they do... I want every person here who blindly repeated establishment talking points to eat crow, and admit they are being fed [BLEEP] information.
I don't even think there's a war going on.. I think this little Ukraine puke and Putin got together and decided to rob the United States.. Ocean's 11 style.
(04-01-2023, 11:11 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing changed.
Then why do you say there's a good chance Ukraine is about to lose the war?