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Quote:Sober in a nightclub? Who does that?

 

Responsible gun owners who possess a CCW if they were permitted to do so. Designated Drivers do it pretty much every night.

Quote:Last Call is generally a local ordinance, here where we are it's usually at 1:45 with closing at 2am. Orlando is the same AFAIK.

That's quite oppressive. Seems you like your alcohol more regulated than your guns? Should have shed some blood over that.

Quote:You really want people carrying guns in a nightclub? Drinking heavily and guns doesn't seem like a great mix.

Understood, and as I noted, I do think it would lead to an increase in gun violence. Still, I don't think that increase in concealed carry will greatly increase the danger posed by those most likely to do harm, as they would pack anyway. It might have a detterent effect, or a more active stopping effect in the event of actual violence. Given that I don't see gun restriction increasing, not sure what other good alternatives there are.

Quote:That's quite oppressive. Seems you like your alcohol more regulated than your guns? Should have shed some blood over that.

 

I agree, I oppose those kinds of ordinances. I cannot even walk across the street outside my house to a neighbors with an open beer without fear of arrest. That is exactly the kind of Nanny State-ism I'm against.

Quote:I agree, I oppose those kinds of ordinances. I cannot even walk across the street outside my house to a neighbors with an open beer without fear of arrest. That is exactly the kind of Nanny State-ism I'm against.

I'm starting to understand why you get a bit touchy now seriously. My state has oppressive laws for here with last drinks at 3am.

Are people actually implying alcohol had anything to do with this massacre?

Quote:As i stated above, the declaration of a caliphate is a call to arms for the faith.  The credibility of the caliphate is predicated on its ability to hold land.  Whether the attacks were bonafide planned by ISIS or just ISIS inspired is irrelevant (although in the case of San Bernandino there is evidence to support the idea that it was a greater plot and ISIS had foreshadowing of an attack in Florida 3 days ago and almost immediate claims of responsibility.)  The point is that the thing drawing people from countries across the world to join this fight is the doctrinal definition of a caliphate and the success ISIS has in establishing defacto statehood (holding land).  The way to sever the tie is to destroy or displace the caliphate.  Until then you will see the frequency of these attacks continue to increase until the 4.5 billion comply with the beliefs of the 1.6 billion.  

So did you read rfc's post (around page 6?) regarding the widespread support for Sharia law in many of these countries? Pretty sure that is in a lot of areas that are outside of ISIS control or immediate influence. Also seem to recall Bin Laden supported hitting US more than building a caliphate, so again, don't see the caliphate as key. And if you agree with what rfc seems to be saying (as your 'beliefs of the 1.6 billion seems to imply), are you saying we need to destroy or displace all of those 1.6 billion? Not quite sure what you are getting at. Nut jobs kill for a number of reasons, they did it well before ISIS, and will do it after ISIS. 

Quote:Are people actually implying alcohol had anything to do with this massacre?

 

No, we're talking about possibilities of prevention.

So of those 1 was within the last year?


you are almost helping my point.  Christian movements are far less likely to carry out violent murderous actions than radical muslim movements.  

 

I don't have twisted world views, I spent 407 days of my life in that stupid country around that religion and saw hwo it treated woman, and how it thought of people as expendable to push their agenda.  I've got a bachelors degree and am working on a second one at the moment.  My alma maters chaplin was a muslim woman who preeched to the school on islam relations and how its a religion of peace.  While being talked down to by muslim men at the school.  The vast majority from many parts of the world do support their actions and the considerable amount that don't are not considerable enough.  After paris they held a soccer game in Turkey and did a minute of silence for the French victims, in the moment of silence the crowd just chanted allah akbar.  

 

How do you propose filtering the good vs the bad muslim population.  Because there are enough bad ones to treat the entire race with caution.

Quote:Robert Lewis Dear

Eric Rudolph

Charles Barbee

Ronald Gay

To the best of my knowledge, all identified with Christian movements. 

Seems to me in these cases, as well as the one in Orlando, we have chucklehead losers trying to attach their twisted world views on a religion in which the vast majority do not support their actions.

 

Quote:So of those 1 was within the last year?


you are almost helping my point.  Christian movements are far less likely to carry out violent murderous actions than radical muslim movements.  

 

I don't have twisted world views, I spent 407 days of my life in that stupid country around that religion and saw hwo it treated woman, and how it thought of people as expendable to push their agenda.  I've got a bachelors degree and am working on a second one at the moment.  My alma maters chaplin was a muslim woman who preeched to the school on islam relations and how its a religion of peace.  While being talked down to by muslim men at the school.  The vast majority from many parts of the world do support their actions and the considerable amount that don't are not considerable enough.  After paris they held a soccer game in Turkey and did a minute of silence for the French victims, in the moment of silence the crowd just chanted allah akbar.  

 

How do you propose filtering the good vs the bad muslim population.  Because there are enough bad ones to treat the entire race with caution.

 

I totally forgot about that. So telling.

 

This is shocking though. Because, as we know, muslims are very peaceful.  There are a few bads apples, but that's realistically only about 7 individuals worldwide holding those radical views.

Quote:Yes it is. We know the media are proven liars. We know that NORAD and Pentagon officials lied so many times to the 9/11 Commission that the Commission considered criminal charges. We know that nobody died at Sandy Hook and the Boston Bombing was a hoax with staged amputees and phony blood packets. So all diligent citizens have a natural skepticism about these events.

And I thought *I* was the most anti-government person on this board...

Quote:At the exact same time that many are advocating that you give up that right and the tools to exercise it. Because if you disarm the good guys then the bad guys will quit being bad.

#feelthebern right?

Quote:He had a drink? Doesn't sound like a very good Muslim.

Doesn't sound Muslim at all.


But his name sounds Muslim!!!

What are we to do with the correlation that exists between Islam and terrorism? Surely not all Muslims are terrorists, but the majority of terrorists are Muslim. Are we to do nothing with that knowledge and just equate it to any other person who goes nuts? Or might there be a version of Islam that's being taught that's encouraging these events and can something that minimally infringes on our freedoms be done about that? Or is any infringement on freedom so distasteful that, of the two, you'd prefer these types of events happening regularly at home and abroad? Have we all read the Koran to get a better understanding of the ideology? Do immigration policies that are designed for inclusion and tolerance but are fundamentally changing the culture and inviting people, some of whom's beliefs are at odds with our constitution, really make sense and are they in its citizenry's best interests? Can a nation or culture be defeated over time by an ideology through its immigration policy? Is it a right or a privilege to come to this or any other country? Are we at risk of becoming so desensitized that we forget about this and move on in a month?


These are questions we need to be asking ourselves and answering honestly. I'm sure there are many more and that we might not all arrive at the same answers. I'm very leery about infringing on our personal freedoms for instance, but at some point common sense has to override ideology. These events aren't going to go away if we proceed with business as usual and, in fact, they're probably going to get worse and more frequent. There isn't an easy answer but there has to be a better answer than proceeding with the status quo.

Quote:So of those 1 was within the last year?


you are almost helping my point.  Christian movements are far less likely to carry out violent murderous actions than radical muslim movements.  

 

I don't have twisted world views, I spent 407 days of my life in that stupid country around that religion and saw hwo it treated woman, and how it thought of people as expendable to push their agenda.  I've got a bachelors degree and am working on a second one at the moment.  My alma maters chaplin was a muslim woman who preeched to the school on islam relations and how its a religion of peace.  While being talked down to by muslim men at the school.  The vast majority from many parts of the world do support their actions and the considerable amount that don't are not considerable enough.  After paris they held a soccer game in Turkey and did a minute of silence for the French victims, in the moment of silence the crowd just chanted allah akbar.  

 

How do you propose filtering the good vs the bad muslim population.  Because there are enough bad ones to treat the entire race with caution.

 

Dude, might want to try reading a little closer. My comment about twisted world views was directly and explicitly referring to those nut job Christian killers as well as the nut job killer in Orlando. And there is a one year moratorium? To me the issue is not are there idiot Christians or idiot Muslims, but idiot people, and how do we deal with any of them.  I have referred to the issues with the Pew Research results, and that is definitely a concern, so I am not just blowing that off. There are definitively some cultural issues not only regarding feminism, or alternative sexuality, but broader issues that I feel merit a discussion of how to approach cultures with strong belief in Sharia, for example. Regarding the soccer game, I have no idea if what Ozsari said was bull or not, but it does offer a different perspective. But it is your last section that really intrigues me. Filtering the good vs the bad ..what? The muslim race? How about we try to figure out solutions to the actions of individuals causing the harm, or do you really feel that 1.6 billion are ready to come over here and blow stuff up? Oh, and maybe I missed it in a previous post (thus making you not the only one who needs to read closer) but what country are you talking about spending 407 days in?

There are survivors saying that there was more than one shooter. This would make sense considering the amount of casualties and the amount of ammo required to hit so many people.

One change that is necessary is not allowing anyone on the no fly list to be able to purchase a firearm, which is legal to do so right now.

The FBI and DHS investigate this guy...oh, wait, he WORKS for the DHS.  In fact, his company is the one "resettling" Middle Eastern "refugees" in every U.S. State.  Hmm.  Anyhoo, they investigate this guy so they know about the domestic abuse, homophobia, and terrorist threats to coworkers.  So he's perfectly safe.   

Quote:Dude, might want to try reading a little closer. My comment about twisted world views was directly and explicitly referring to those nut job Christian killers as well as the nut job killer in Orlando. And there is a one year moratorium? To me the issue is not are there idiot Christians or idiot Muslims, but idiot people, and how do we deal with any of them.  I have referred to the issues with the Pew Research results, and that is definitely a concern, so I am not just blowing that off. There are definitively some cultural issues not only regarding feminism, or alternative sexuality, but broader issues that I feel merit a discussion of how to approach cultures with strong belief in Sharia, for example. Regarding the soccer game, I have no idea if what Ozsari said was bull or not, but it does offer a different perspective. But it is your last section that really intrigues me. Filtering the good vs the bad ..what? The muslim race? How about we try to figure out solutions to the actions of individuals causing the harm, or do you really feel that 1.6 billion are ready to come over here and blow stuff up? Oh, and maybe I missed it in a previous post (thus making you not the only one who needs to read closer) but what country are you talking about spending 407 days in?

I spent 407 days in Iraq in 07-08 .  I'm not trying to filter 1.6 billion people but I think it is in the countries best interest to filter the ones in America now or on their way here.  I would like more caution in bringing people in and research done on if they can even assimilate to society once they are here.  I misread your twisted world views part and I'm sorry for that, there are many twisted views by all faiths.  With that said this particular faith seems to be producing the most twisted views, with the most violent actions and that is a serious problem.


 

Quote:The FBI and DHS investigate this guy...oh, wait, he WORKS for the DHS.  In fact, his company is the one "resettling" Middle Eastern "refugees" in every U.S. State.  Hmm.  Anyhoo, they investigate this guy so they know about the domestic abuse, homophobia, and terrorist threats to coworkers.  So he's perfectly safe.   

Yeah, because the organization that brought us hour long lines and taking our shoes off for security couldn't be incompetent, it must be a brilliant, intricate conspiracy.