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What are the odds of an attack like this happening at an NRA convention?  Not good I bet.  Why is that?

Quote:What are the odds of an attack like this happening at an NRA convention?  Not good I bet.  Why is that?

Because people who would see the NRA as enemies likely don't like guns very much?

Quote:Because people who would see the NRA as enemies likely don't like guns very much?

 

Let's just say you have 300 gay NRA members raving.  They're all packing and all know how to use their weapon.  Would the result have been the same, less casualties, or more?  I'd say less.

Quote:Let's just say you have 300 gay NRA members raving.  They're all packing and all know how to use their weapon.  Would the result have been the same, less casualties, or more?  I'd say less.

 

While it's hard to compare an NRA convention to a night club, I see your point.

Quote:While it's hard to compare an NRA convention to a night club, I see your point.

 

People are constantly being told to fear guns.  GUNS ARE BAAD MMMKAY.

 

In reality, the first thing I would tell somebody who is scared of ending up a casualty would be to arm yourself and learn to use it.  The answer is not, "vote for ____, they'll protect you."

Also, the terrorist took 2 mysterious trips to Saudi Arabia. But lets not insult him and remove his right to bear arms.

 

Also tried to buy body armor too. No red flags there.

Quote:Let's just say you have 300 gay NRA members raving.  They're all packing and all know how to use their weapon.  Would the result have been the same, less casualties, or more?  I'd say less.

Uhh weren't there officers on the scene?  Who engaged him in a gun battle, and failed to stop him?  He took several people hostage in the bathroom afterwards as I read it.

Quote:Uhh weren't there officers on the scene?  Who engaged him in a gun battle, and failed to stop him?  He took several people hostage in the bathroom afterwards as I read it.

 

I dont see how that has anything to do with my scenario.  Officers responding on the scene is not the same as everybody already inside the building being armed and trained.

Quote:I dont see how that has anything to do with my scenario.  Officers responding on the scene is not the same as everybody already inside the building being armed and trained.

 

Yeah, arm everyone in the building and as soon as someone spots his boyfriend kissing the wrong guy, the shooting starts.   No thanks. 

Well, the way that I see it, here's the arguments/discussions going on right now in the news and on social media today regarding the incident.

 

<b>1.</b>  President Obama refuses to use the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism" and tries to push the subject toward current gun control laws as well as LGBT "issues".

 

2.  The main argument against using the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism" is that all Muslims aren't terrorists, so we shouldn't label them all in such a way.

 

3.  The "anti-gun" crowd (Democrats) call for tougher measures regarding the purchase and/or ownership of firearms, especially those that they deem to be "assault weapons" or "military grade".

 

4.  The gay community want to treat this incident as a "hate crime" solely because of their lifestyle.

 

Regarding point 1

 

In my opinion, the bigger issue at the Federal level of government should be focused on the War on Terror.  It is a FACT that this war is against radical Muslim extremists and that the vast majority of their "leadership" comes from the Middle East.  Now are all Muslim terrorists of Middle Eastern descent?  Certainly not, but the vast majority of them are.  Are all Muslims extremists?  Again, certainly not.  Are ALL terrorists Muslim?  No, but a vast majority are, especially the ones that are most active in wanting to hurt us.  When you have an organization (ISIS) that claims that their target is the U.S., it pretty much makes the enemy clear.

 

Regarding point 2

 

I do agree and believe that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists and have no intention of causing us harm.  I disagree with Trump and his "ban all Muslims" rhetoric.

 

Regarding point 3

 

I don't think that the government on any level should be passing more laws in a knee-jerk fashion because of the incident this past weekend.  After all, if we aren't (and shouldn't) labeling all Muslims as terrorists, we should do the same regarding responsible firearm ownership.  I believe that the failure in this case isn't that there aren't enough laws, it's that the laws aren't enforced enough.

 

Regarding point 4

 

While yes this does affect the gay community severely, it's not about general public sentiment towards them.  I had a long conversation with my own brother (who happens to be gay) regarding this after a bunch of posts that he made to social media about "the hate" directed towards gay people.  The whole issue is about terrorism, not how the general public feels about their lifestyle.

And now today Trump accuses the President of supporting ISIS. 

 

 

"We're led by a man who is a very — look, we're led by a man that either is, is not tough, not smart, or he's got something else in mind," Trump said. "And the something else in mind, you know, people can't believe it. People cannot — they cannot believe that President Obama is acting the ways he acts and can't even mention the words radical Islamic terrorism. There's something going on. It's inconceivable."

 

 
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/is...een-224249

 

 

How low can this man go?   He's accusing the President of the United States of treason! 

 

How can anyone vote for this guy? 

 

 



 

Quote: 

And now today Trump accuses the President of supporting ISIS. 

 

 

"We're led by a man who is a very — look, we're led by a man that either is, is not tough, not smart, or he's got something else in mind," Trump said. "And the something else in mind, you know, people can't believe it. People cannot — they cannot believe that President Obama is acting the ways he acts and can't even mention the words radical Islamic terrorism. There's something going on. It's inconceivable."

 

<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"> 
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/is...een-224249

 

 

How low can this man go?   He's accusing the President of the United States of treason! 

 

How can anyone vote for this guy? 

 

 



 
 

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Do we need to spot check you to see if you are actually posting entire quotes yet?

 

Not clicking the link, but nowhere in that quote did I see anything about the acquisition of the POTUS supporting ISIS. I read it as Obama having blinders on. Is that even debatable?

 

The propaganda machine is strong in you Jedi.

Quote:Do we need to spot check you to see if you are actually posting entire quotes yet?

 

Not clicking the link, but nowhere in that quote did I see anything about the acquisition of the POTUS supporting ISIS. I read it as Obama having blinders on. Is that even debatable?

 

The propaganda machine is strong in you Jedi.

 

I didn't edit that quote one bit, and I can't believe anyone can miss Trump's implication.   Click the link and read the whole article if you want.   What Trump is saying is pretty clear.  

 

Here.  Here's the first part of the article: 

 

==============================================================================

 

Donald Trump stepped up his criticism of President Barack Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Monday, pointedly questioning Obama's lack of willingness to call the act "radical Islamic terrorism" and insinuating that the president's sympathies might lie elsewhere.

 

"He doesn't get it or he gets it better than anybody understands. It's one or the other," Trump said of Obama on "Fox & Friends," speaking on the phone. "And either one is unacceptable, No. 1, and No. 2, calling on another gun ban, I mean, this man has no clue.”


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Trump again implied that the president was not a trustworthy leader who failed to prevent Omar Mateen, an apparently radicalized 29-year-old Florida man, from going on a shooting rampage at an Orlando nightclub early Sunday morning, killing 49 and injuring at least 53.

 

"We're led by a man who is a very — look, we're led by a man that either is, is not tough, not smart, or he's got something else in mind," Trump said. "And the something else in mind, you know, people can't believe it. People cannot — they cannot believe that President Obama is acting the ways he acts and can't even mention the words radical Islamic terrorism. There's something going on. It's inconceivable."

 

The attacks, delivered in Trump’s signature style that leaves him some deniability, were some of his most inflammatory on Obama since Trump played a central role in stoking the birther conspiracy theories in 2011.

During his effort to force Obama to present his birth certificate to prove his citizenship back then, Trump implied to Fox News that the reason for the president not showing it "because maybe it says he is a Muslim."

 

==========================================================================

 

Can you not read this and understand what Trump is saying?  

 

Can you really vote for this guy? 



 

Quote:Not all their rights. Just the right to purchase firearms.

 

Edit: You appear so PC, you would rather have massacres occur than insult someone. I am befuddled that you are perfectly fine with a guy on the FBI watch list who has been interviewed on 2 different occasions being able to purchase military grade firearms legally.

 

No, you absolutely cannot discard Due Process this way. This is exactly how it starts, first Due Process goes, then Habeas Corpus, Presumption of Innocence, then the show trials start, people disappear for no reason at all and one day it's YOU who ends up on the wrong list. We have rights, ALL of us, until we are proven guilty of a crime. We cannot permit rash decisions made in emotional moments to destroy the foundations of Western Civilization.

Quote:Let's just say you have 300 gay NRA members raving. They're all packing and all know how to use their weapon. Would the result have been the same, less casualties, or more? I'd say less.

I'd guess the death toll would be closer to 301 than to 50.


Lol, you've lost all sight on reality if you think a dark room with strobe lights, loud music and one lone gunman is a good place to have everyone armed.


This isn't call of duty or battlefield, dude. Try to think logically.

Quote: 

I didn't edit that quote one bit, and I can't believe anyone can miss Trump's implication.   Click the link and read the whole article if you want.   What Trump is saying is pretty clear.  

 

Here.  Here's the first part of the article: 

 

==============================================================================

 

Donald Trump stepped up his criticism of President Barack Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Monday, pointedly questioning Obama's lack of willingness to call the act "radical Islamic terrorism" and insinuating that the president's sympathies might lie elsewhere.

 

"He doesn't get it or he gets it better than anybody understands. It's one or the other," Trump said of Obama on "Fox & Friends," speaking on the phone. "And either one is unacceptable, No. 1, and No. 2, calling on another gun ban, I mean, this man has no clue.”

<div>
<div>
<div> 
</div>
</div>
Trump again implied that the president was not a trustworthy leader who failed to prevent Omar Mateen, an apparently radicalized 29-year-old Florida man, from going on a shooting rampage at an Orlando nightclub early Sunday morning, killing 49 and injuring at least 53.

 

"We're led by a man who is a very — look, we're led by a man that either is, is not tough, not smart, or he's got something else in mind," Trump said. "And the something else in mind, you know, people can't believe it. People cannot — they cannot believe that President Obama is acting the ways he acts and can't even mention the words radical Islamic terrorism. There's something going on. It's inconceivable."

 

The attacks, delivered in Trump’s signature style that leaves him some deniability, were some of his most inflammatory on Obama since Trump played a central role in stoking the birther conspiracy theories in 2011.

During his effort to force Obama to present his birth certificate to prove his citizenship back then, Trump implied to Fox News that the reason for the president not showing it "because maybe it says he is a Muslim."

 

==========================================================================

 

Can you not read this and understand what Trump is saying?  

 

Can you really vote for this guy? 



 
 

</div>

 

So is Obama just extremely incompetent then? It would almost be better if was supporting ISIS in a roundabout away so he didn't look like such an idiot. Then he could be some sort of evil mastermind instead of a moron.

Quote:Well, the way that I see it, here's the arguments/discussions going on right now in the news and on social media today regarding the incident.

1. President Obama refuses to use the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism" and tries to push the subject toward current gun control laws as well as LGBT "issues".

2. The main argument against using the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism" is that all Muslims aren't terrorists, so we shouldn't label them all in such a way.

3. The "anti-gun" crowd (Democrats) call for tougher measures regarding the purchase and/or ownership of firearms, especially those that they deem to be "assault weapons" or "military grade".

4. The gay community want to treat this incident as a "hate crime" solely because of their lifestyle.

Regarding point 1


In my opinion, the bigger issue at the Federal level of government should be focused on the War on Terror. It is a FACT that this war is against radical Muslim extremists and that the vast majority of their "leadership" comes from the Middle East. Now are all Muslim terrorists of Middle Eastern descent? Certainly not, but the vast majority of them are. Are all Muslims extremists? Again, certainly not. Are ALL terrorists Muslim? No, but a vast majority are, especially the ones that are most active in wanting to hurt us. When you have an organization (ISIS) that claims that their target is the U.S., it pretty much makes the enemy clear.

Regarding point 2


I do agree and believe that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists and have no intention of causing us harm. I disagree with Trump and his "ban all Muslims" rhetoric.

Regarding point 3


I don't think that the government on any level should be passing more laws in a knee-jerk fashion because of the incident this past weekend. After all, if we aren't (and shouldn't) labeling all Muslims as terrorists, we should do the same regarding responsible firearm ownership. I believe that the failure in this case isn't that there aren't enough laws, it's that the laws aren't enforced enough.

Regarding point 4


While yes this does affect the gay community severely, it's not about general public sentiment towards them. I had a long conversation with my own brother (who happens to be gay) regarding this after a bunch of posts that he made to social media about "the hate" directed towards gay people. The whole issue is about terrorism, not how the general public feels about their lifestyle.

Looks like you finally refilled your sanity prescription and have been actually taking your meds.


I just want to add a couple things.


I'm about facts. And as you point out, it's clear that a small cross section of Muslims are becoming brainwashed and are taking up arms. Everyone sees it. The problem I have, and our racist gop presumptive nominee, clearly defines it is this--this is not a war on Islam. All Muslims should not be feared, they are not all out to kill us. This rhetoric actually does more harm to our country than it helps. Trump is literally being used as a poster child for Isis.


As for gun control, jib---you may want to look at the republican trumpettes that are looking to lessen the 2nd amendment rights of some citizens... it's not just democrats on that point... at least not in the jungle....

Quote:I'd guess the death toll would be closer to 301 than to 50.


Lol, you've lost all sight on reality if you think a dark room with strobe lights, loud music and one lone gunman is a good place to have everyone armed.


This isn't call of duty or battlefield, dude. Try to think logically.

 

Let's say this is the annual gay cop rave.  All are armed and trained.  What happens?  The same result? You're playing dumb if you say so.

 

I am thinking logically.  Apply the same logic to a group of trained individuals and the results would have not been the same.  People would have been able to defend themselves rather than being as sheep led to a slaughter.

 

To say the results would have been worse is not based on any factual information.  There have been countless incidents where an armed civilian was able to stop a crime from occurring. 

Quote:Let's say this is the annual gay cop rave.  All are armed and trained.  What happens?  The same result? You're playing dumb if you say so.

 

I don't care if they are cops.  If you arm everyone at a rave with a gun, you are asking for a massacre. 

Quote:You posted the first part of the quote that makes it look horrible and provided click bait to get the full quote that makes it not all that bad at all.

 

Do you work in the media? You should be ashamed of yourself.

Trumps comments on Twitter was panned by everyone, not just the person who posted it here. He basically took credit for being "right" before Isis took credit for the shootings. He's disgusting.