Quote:So the truth is either what is on a birth certificate or what was put into a social media site, where can quite literally type in anything.
Hmmm, tough choice of which to believe.
Bon, it's not about
belief. It's about finding facts, right? I have seen in the news stories that he was born in NYC but I don't have a source for that particular fact - do you? Do you have a link to the birth certificate? I don't know if it matters where he was born, but it might. He did brag in high school that Bin Laden was his uncle and taught him how to shoot an AK-47, but that could be teenage BS. But gee if that's true maybe we should know, huh?
Quote:How dark do you think these places are? I'm sure some clubs fit your descriptions, but a lot of them (and theaters) are plenty bright enough to clearly identify the threat. I bring mine every where I go and haven't been in a situation where I couldn't use it properly. Even if it means waiting a few moments and assessing the situation.
Are you saying no one could have seen a lone gunman shooting a rifle in the club and kill him?
In a nut shell, yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.
It's been a while since I've been to a rave, but from my recollection, it's very dark, very loud, and there are these strobe light things that make it very difficult to see clearly. With that and the loudness of the music and acoustics of buildings like that, it would be difficult to identify a bad guy with a gun against the back drop of 300 good guys with guns.
I know, I saw Face/Off too... it seems like all you have to do is dual wield your golden hand guns and dive over the bar as you place 12 slugs right in the torso of the bad guy, with the precision grouping of a sniper, topping it off with the kill shot right between the eyes as you wink at the cute blonde you have just heroically saved from imminent doom---
But yeah, that's not how life works... there is this thing called friendly fire which has been known to happen, even with our highly trained military personnel.
But yeah, 300 nra members are totally gonna all be heros and dead eyes, and know who the bad guy is, nobody will mistake an innocent holding a gun in the middle of a dark loud chaotic rave as the bad guy. /s
Quote:Bon, it's not about belief. It's about finding facts, right? I have seen in the news stories that he was born in NYC but I don't have a source for that particular fact - do you? Do you have a link to the birth certificate? I don't know if it matters where he was born, but it might. He did brag in high school that Bin Laden was his uncle and taught him how to shoot an AK-47, but that could be teenage [BAD WORD REMOVED]. But gee if that's true maybe we should know, huh?
LOL
Maybe that Nigerian prince really will send me a million dollars. How do you know he won't?
There are 1.477 million Floridians with concealed permits. Call it roughly 10% of adults. There's a reason they choose gun-free zones for these massacres. But I still want to know how he got a long gun and all that ammo into a CLOSED club. And what were 350 people still doing in there? - or is it one of those that stays open til 4 or 5 but stops serving booze at 2?
Quote:In a nut shell, yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.
It's been a while since I've been to a rave, but from my recollection, it's very dark, very loud, and there are these strobe light things that make it very difficult to see clearly. With that and the loudness of the music and acoustics of buildings like that, it would be difficult to identify a bad guy with a gun against the back drop of 300 good guys with guns.
I know, I saw Face/Off too... it seems like all you have to do is dual wield your golden hand guns and dive over the bar as you place 12 slugs right in the torso of the bad guy, with the precision grouping of a sniper, topping it off with the kill shot right between the eyes as you wink at the cute blonde you have just heroically saved from imminent doom---
But yeah, that's not how life works... there is this thing called friendly fire which has been known to happen, even with our highly trained military personnel.
But yeah, 300 nra members are totally gonna all be heros and dead eyes, and know who the bad guy is, nobody will mistake an innocent holding a gun in the middle of a dark loud chaotic rave as the bad guy. /s
In Garland, Tx, one guy with a pistol stopped two guys with assault rifles. The facts dont support you. All you fear mongers just have this fictional idea in your head that trained people in a room would just randomly shoot everywhere like idiots. It doesn't happen like that.
Quote:Childish
Welcome to my ignore list. Have a great life! Or not.
Quote:Welcome to my ignore list. Have a great life! Or not.
I don't think he was saying you are childish...I think he was referring to the shooter although "childish" isn't the word I would have used. "Weak" would be infinitely more appropriate. There are a great many LGBT Muslims raised under similar sets of circumstances that don't go about "attempting to reconcile" crises of faith by shooting up clubs. This creature was both sick and weak.
Quote:This creature was both sick and weak.
Seems to be a commom theme with Muslims around the world, not just the US.
I called it. Obama told us a few weeks ago he wants "no-fly" to mean 'no-guns" and today he's using the Orlando event to propose exactly that. Problem is, it would not have prevented anything since the shooter was not on any no-fly list and in fact was working for DHS. And he already owned one or more guns since he was an armed security guard.
Anyone who thinks this is a "reasonable" restriction will be sadly mistaken. It can and will be used to arbitrarily take the 2nd Amendment rights of millions of Americans, and you can bet it will be used for political reasons. It is Orwellian madness to have a secret list and secret reasons for putting people on it and no way to get off it, no way to question it but your natural, civil and Constitutional rights are taken forever by a faceless bureaucracy.
And people on this board are clamoring for it.
Quote:The fact that you are angry isn't an excuse for committing a crime. Making terrorist threats is a crime. The idea that "Well i was angry" is a credible defense is preposterous. As i stated above, a similar situation happened with a JSO lieutenant that i know. One, not repeated, but one comment about what he'd like to do to the president and it was understood that wasn't the kind of mentality that we wanted from someone entrusted with carrying firearms and entrusting the law. When you talk about someone with his access, and training with firearms the idea that you would encourage or emotionally subsidize a reckless emotional state defies basic logic.
further, the guy demonstrated a long pattern of abusive behavior. In the case of a terrorist threat the employer should have been contacted and involved in the investigation to determine the veracity of the claims and also to become active in the monitoring and screening of the individual. There is no way that you should have a wife running for her life, a co-worker quitting in protest and the FBI not know about it in general. When you factor in the fact that this is a first generation Citizen who's parents are from a country with a history of extremist views who made two trips to Saudi Arabia this should have been a slam dunk. These are serious red flags.
For someone of his access and responsibility as an armed employee of a federal contractor the minute that he starts ranting and raving about being a member of hezbollah and wanting to kill everyone he should have been charged with terrorist threats, his ability to work for them should have been revoked and he should have been placed on the terrorist watch list. The dig into the guys background should have included interviews of his girlfriend and any relevant complaints of mental instability or radicalization of his co-workers. If we can't catch this guy then God help us!
This actually gets to what I was hoping to see, thanks. Quite frankly, I had heard after the tragedy in Orlando that his wife said he had beat her. I really hadn't read about the prevalence of his rants. If you could link something to support that, it would be great. But equally importantly, you imply that the FBI didn't investigate the ex-wife (you said girlfriend, presume you meant the ex, but maybe there is someone else) or co-workers. From what I understand, making a terrorist threat is a third degree felony, so I am assuming that he could have had his ability to purchase weapons revoked. If he made statements that were subject to prosecution, then perhaps said prosecution would have limited his access to the weapons, and the tragedy could have been averted, or at least greatly mitigated. But for all i know, the FBI (which had him on the list twice) did investigate, and no one spoke up. If the ex or co-workers did speak up, then I agree, the FBI either dropped the ball by ignoring policy, or it is the policy not to prosecute terrorist threats. I just include that last part, as I am not familiar with what the current policy is, or if the policy has ever been to actively prosecute such statements.
Edit - double quote
Quote:In Garland, Tx, one guy with a pistol stopped two guys with assault rifles. The facts dont support you. All you fear mongers just have this fictional idea in your head that trained people in a room with just randomly shoot everywhere like idiots. It doesn't happen like that.
Lol, look up accidental gun deaths, and then get back to me. I mean, it's a hypothetical, but I just don't see how the scenario you set up, a rave with everyone packing ends well.
Quote:I didn't claim the shooter was born in Pakistan - he did. So there is a discrepancy about his origin. An anomaly. They both can't be true, but finding which is actually true may bring some clarity. This is how investigations work.
My birth certificate says that I was born male. My Facebook page says that I am an attack helicopter. You tell me which one is more credible.
Quote:I called it. Obama told us a few weeks ago he wants "no-fly" to mean 'no-guns" and today he's using the Orlando event to propose exactly that. Problem is, it would not have prevented anything since the shooter was not on any no-fly list and in fact was working for DHS. And he already owned one or more guns since he was an armed security guard.
Anyone who thinks this is a "reasonable" restriction will be sadly mistaken. It can and will be used to arbitrarily take the 2nd Amendment rights of millions of Americans, and you can bet it will be used for political reasons. It is Orwellian madness to have a secret list and secret reasons for putting people on it and no way to get off it, no way to question it but your natural, civil and Constitutional rights are taken forever by a faceless bureaucracy.
And people on this board are clamoring for it.
In the people's defense, in theory the restrictions would work (prevent crazies from buying LEGALLY), but like you say it
will be used for political reasons due to government corruption. This is not what people have in mind by restricting potential terrorists from buying weapons legally.
Quote:My birth certificate says that I was born male. My Facebook page says that I am an attack helicopter. You tell me which one is more credible.
You come off as more of a Huey, honestly.
Quote:You come off as more of a Huey, honestly.
Speak for yourself, Chinook.
Quote:Why is it not true? Condemning homosexuality based on one's religious teachings is one thing. Killing is another.
There is a quote out there of the father saying no man has the right to kill because of their religious beliefs.
Sorry, but you are projecting your bigotry onto this man.
Facts are facts... let's focus on those. The father also had a tv show he would put on, which is odd.
The shooter was known to frequent gay clubs and social media. And he also claimed allegiance to two opposing middle east factions...
This is not as cut and dry a situation as you want it to be...
Him being a Muslim may not even be the primary motive of this horribly sick person. But don't let that stand in your way. You want this to fit your preconceived ideology of the war on Islam.
It's ridiculous how quickly some folks are ready to ignore facts...
Lol what in the world are you talking about? Omar pledged his allegiance to ISIS. His Dad said on one of his shows “Our brothers in Waziristan, our warrior brothers in Taliban movement and national Afghan Taliban are rising up." I'm simply stated I wouldn't believe anything his father has to say. If you want to believe someone who says our warrior brothers in the Taliban movement as a trust worthy figure than by all means.
You have taken that statement and turned it into me believing preconceived notions... I'm stating things that are fact. The war is on terrorist who use Islam as an excuse to kill. What is ridiculous is your post and preconcieved view point on beliefs I don't have. May want to take a dose of your own medicine and stop being a hypocrite. You're are part of the political problem.
Quote:Lol, look up accidental gun deaths, and then get back to me. I mean, it's a hypothetical, but I just don't see how the scenario you set up, a rave with everyone packing ends well.
it would end better if they were all trained, not the type of people who accidentally shoot themselves in the leg at a dance club.