Quote:So did you read rfc's post (around page 6?) regarding the widespread support for Sharia law in many of these countries? Pretty sure that is in a lot of areas that are outside of ISIS control or immediate influence. Also seem to recall Bin Laden supported hitting US more than building a caliphate, so again, don't see the caliphate as key. And if you agree with what rfc seems to be saying (as your 'beliefs of the 1.6 billion seems to imply), are you saying we need to destroy or displace all of those 1.6 billion? Not quite sure what you are getting at. Nut jobs kill for a number of reasons, they did it well before ISIS, and will do it after ISIS.
Shariah, Islamic supremacy, and the declaration of a caliphate are not opposed positions. They are all aspects of jihad.
In the case of a caliphate it provides credibility or proof that the orthodoxy is true and that the leaders there of are to be believed and followed. That why you see the conversions of so many foreign fighters. It would be the equivelant of a Christian leader walking on water.
It provides direct incentive for jihad to spread Shariah.
Quote:Yeah, because the organization that brought us hour long lines and taking our shoes off for security couldn't be incompetent, it must be a brilliant, intricate conspiracy.
I like a good conspiracy as much as the next guy, but I agree its more of an incompetency issue.
Quote:Never heard of him before, but after 3 minutes of Google-fu I declare him to be an [BAD WORD REMOVED] of the highest order.
So let it be entered into the record this day.
I agree. Bat turd crazy that one is.
Quote:One change that is necessary is not allowing anyone on the no fly list to be able to purchase a firearm, which is legal to do so right now.
This is exactly what Obama called for less than 2 weeks ago. He wants to take away our natural, civil, God-given and Constitutional right to protect ourselves - for any reason, or for no reason. You aren't even allowed to ask the reason. Obama says he would do it if you visited an ISIS web page. I'm sure that's not the only way to make the list.
If that's the specific reform Obama demands as a response to Orlando, it gives the appearance of foreknowledge and a planned event. Obama is also casually admitting that everything Edward Snowden said is true - that every email, phone call and web visit we make is perpetually under surveillance.
Quote:I spent 407 days in Iraq in 07-08 . I'm not trying to filter 1.6 billion people but I think it is in the countries best interest to filter the ones in America now or on their way here. I would like more caution in bringing people in and research done on if they can even assimilate to society once they are here. I misread your twisted world views part and I'm sorry for that, there are many twisted views by all faiths. With that said this particular faith seems to be producing the most twisted views, with the most violent actions and that is a serious problem.
OK, cool, no problem. Actually, I have concerns about the whole Sharia thing, and agree that right now Muslims seem to be more likely to shoot or blow up U.S. (or French, or Belgian, or English or Spanish) folks than say, Hindus, or Buddhists, or Christians right now. Of course, even though I think there have been some Muslims that have been pissed about things since Sykes-Picot, and others since the late forties and Israel, I do see a correlation between attacks and countries that have been more militarily active in the region. I am curious how much of their idiocy is rooted in cultural differences versus being angry at Western nations pissing in their corn flakes (if that is their perception).
Quote:Yeah, because the organization that brought us hour long lines and taking our shoes off for security couldn't be incompetent, it must be a brilliant, intricate conspiracy.
OK, so if the FBI and DHS are too incompetent to protect us, where does that leave us? Seems like the wrong time to be turning in our guns, but that's exactly what many of our leaders will suggest.
Quote:Shariah, Islamic supremacy, and the declaration of a caliphate are not opposed positions. They are all aspects of jihad.
In the case of a caliphate it provides credibility or proof that the orthodoxy is true and that the leaders there of are to be believed and followed. That why you see the conversions of so many foreign fighters. It would be the equivelant of a Christian leader walking on water.
It provides direct incentive for jihad to spread Shariah.
See it is comments like this that confuse me. To me, Sharia is a legal system based on Islamic belief that is applied by the government in a given area. Islamic Supremacy is the believe that Islam is superior to all other religions and that other religions must be made subordinate. The Caliphate is .. hmm, maybe the grandiose envisioning of something like the Ottoman empire? Or maybe the Arab homeland that Lawrence promised prior to Sykes-Picot? And the whole equivalency of some fighters grabbing some turf to a person defying the laws of physics ..well, gonna let that go for now. But I didn't see you address the questions concerning your comments about the 1.6 billion. Are you saying that if we defeat the flavor of the month (ISIS) things are peachy? Ore do we need to blow up all 1.6 billion? Are they all believers in Islamic Supremacy according to your view? or do they support Sharia in their country, but are not planning to try to convert the world to Islam through violence? Just trying to get a handle on what you are saying.
Quote:OK, so if the FBI and DHS are too incompetent to protect us, where does that leave us? Seems like the wrong time to be turning in our guns, but that's exactly what many of our leaders will suggest.
In the real world, not fantasyland? A place where violence occasionally happens? Where idiots kill innocent people sometimes? A world where we discuss substantive steps to increase our security, rather than symbolic wastes of time? (Oh wait, maybe that last one was fantasyland as well)
Ahh yes, the conspiracy nut. Better watch out, since you've got it all figured out. 9/11, Sandy Hook, Bin Laden, the paris attacks, World War II, they were all faked by the government. Now that you've figured it out, the government will surely eliminate you.
Quote:OK, cool, no problem. Actually, I have concerns about the whole Sharia thing, and agree that right now Muslims seem to be more likely to shoot or blow up U.S. (or French, or Belgian, or English or Spanish) folks than say, Hindus, or Buddhists, or Christians right now. Of course, even though I think there have been some Muslims that have been [BAD WORD REMOVED] about things since Sykes-Picot, and others since the late forties and Israel, I do see a correlation between attacks and countries that have been more militarily active in the region. I am curious how much of their idiocy is rooted in cultural differences versus being angry at Western nations [BAD WORD REMOVED] in their corn flakes (if that is their perception).
I'm sure there is a lot of blame to go around. There is a really good documentary that does a good job of touching on the cultural differences and the effect of the long term war in Iraq
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/losing-iraq/.
Omar Mateen swore allegiance to ISIS, yet worked for a major Department of Homeland Security contractor. G4S provides security at over 90% of America's nuclear facilities. They also transport illegal aliens in fortified busses. Our best intel agencies cannot detect the Islamic terrorists in their own midst.
Quote:Ahh yes, the conspiracy nut. Better watch out, since you've got it all figured out. 9/11, Sandy Hook, Bin Laden, the paris attacks, World War II, they were all faked by the government. Now that you've figured it out, the government will surely eliminate you.
Well we do live in a simulation after all.
Quote:The last quip about Mateen's father makes no sense. The only reason he'd have become so enraged after seeing two men kiss in public is because of his religion.
No no, he said it has nothing to do with religion. 2+2=5 ok?
Quote:I'm sure there is a lot of blame to go around. There is a really good documentary that does a good job of touching on the cultural differences and the effect of the long term war in Iraq http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/losing-iraq/.
thanks for the link, bookmarked it and will watch it in the next day or two. I guess what I was getting at was that while I can talk about historical issues, even though somebody like Bin Laden or the ideological leaders of ISIS might think in such terms, it just doesn't resonate as much with me as a likely motivator for the rank and file. Oh, well, will table that for now.
Quote:This is highly doubtful in today's politically correct society. Even at our worst, Americans might beat up a guy and call it "gay bashing," but the same persons would never advocate actually killing them. Fortunately the notion of gay bashing is quickly becoming a thing of the past in America, but Muslims are still actively advocating the killing the homosexuals and others.
We've got plenty of people advocating actually killing them. One such horrible "human being" I mentioned earlier in this topic.
I do think that it's naive to think that religion had nothing to do with it. It had quite a bit to do with it.
Quote:This is highly doubtful in today's politically correct society. Even at our worst, Americans might beat up a guy and call it "gay bashing," but the same persons would never advocate actually killing them. Fortunately the notion of gay bashing is quickly becoming a thing of the past in America, but Muslims are still actively advocating the killing the homosexuals and others.
Yeah, the Christian God hasn't had it out for the gays en masse for decades. That is so 80's.
Quote:One change that is necessary is not allowing anyone on the no fly list to be able to purchase a firearm, which is legal to do so right now.
Agreed 100%...This guy has been under FBI watch. Twice. Yet, he can LEGALLY purchase an assault rifle , pistol, piss load of ammo. Argue all you want with the 2nd amendment, but for the life of me ( literally ) I cant understand how a guy like this can go in and buy this stuff...well..I guess its because its his right. Ok. Then we live..or dont...with the consequences.