(02-04-2022, 07:26 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Ignore the silly defense of the worst oline coach of our generation, and it looks like we have found our oline coach:
EDIT: Someone in the comments is saying the Bills are getting him instead so who knows.
https://twitter.com/grantcohn/status/148...9619941378
(02-04-2022, 07:26 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Ignore the silly defense of the worst oline coach of our generation, and it looks like we have found our oline coach:
EDIT: Someone in the comments is saying the Bills are getting him instead so who knows.
https://twitter.com/grantcohn/status/148...9619941378
(02-04-2022, 07:08 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ](02-04-2022, 07:00 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Introductory press conference tomorrow at noon. In attendance will be Pederson, Shad, Baalke...and no Spielman.
I'm starting to get anxious again.
Where did you hear this?
(02-04-2022, 08:00 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ](02-04-2022, 07:08 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Where did you hear this?
https://twitter.com/jpshadrick/status/14...4nQcP7WGrQ
(02-04-2022, 08:08 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]If we don't get Spielman the excitment for Pederson goes from decently high to absolutely zero instantly.
(02-04-2022, 08:08 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]If we don't get Spielman the excitment for Pederson goes from decently high to absolutely zero instantly.No one seems to be worried that Spielman isn’t coming here.
(02-04-2022, 08:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ](02-04-2022, 08:08 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]If we don't get Spielman the excitment for Pederson goes from decently high to absolutely zero instantly.No one seems to be worried that Spielman isn’t coming here.
Maybe they’re just giving Pederson his day and ironing out the details with Spielman.
(02-04-2022, 08:12 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ](02-04-2022, 08:08 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]If we don't get Spielman the excitment for Pederson goes from decently high to absolutely zero instantly.
I am assuming if it is not true that we are getting Speilman then Pederson has roster control
(02-04-2022, 08:16 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Totally.(02-04-2022, 08:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]No one seems to be worried that Spielman isn’t coming here.
Maybe they’re just giving Pederson his day and ironing out the details with Spielman.
I don't disagree, but we all know how Baalke works. The second Pederson signed and Spielman hadn't signed it opened a crack in the door for Baalke to start spreading his tentacles. Until we officially hear that Spielman has signed I'm going to be skeptical.
(02-04-2022, 08:12 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]I am assuming if it is not true that we are getting Speilman then Pederson has roster control
Baalke as GM and Pederson with roster control is unacceptable to me.
(02-04-2022, 07:31 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ](02-04-2022, 07:26 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Ignore the silly defense of the worst oline coach of our generation, and it looks like we have found our oline coach:What I hate about that whole take is making Race the feature of the article.
EDIT: Someone in the comments is saying the Bills are getting him instead so who knows.
https://twitter.com/grantcohn/status/148...9619941378
Why do we have to say "black coach" It isn't like we call every white coach "white coach"
Judge a man on his merits and accomplishments not the color of his skin. I hate this whole new age pc/cancel culture who like to label everything.
(02-04-2022, 08:38 PM)Duval2Vegas Wrote: [ -> ]Is Baalke still the GM?
(02-04-2022, 08:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ](02-04-2022, 07:31 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]What I hate about that whole take is making Race the feature of the article.
Why do we have to say "black coach" It isn't like we call every white coach "white coach"
Judge a man on his merits and accomplishments not the color of his skin. I hate this whole new age pc/cancel culture who like to label everything.
That's the whole point.
It's never been purely about merit.
How else can you explain Josh McCown, whose only coaching experience is on the high school level, actually getting a SECOND NFL head coaching interview?!?
For over a decade, African Americans weren't allowed in the NFL at all as a matter of policy. For several decades to follow, they weren't allowed to play certain positions like QB, C and MLB, under the rationale that blacks were not equipped to handle the more cerebral positions.
As a society, we aren't too far removed from a time where race dictated where you were able to live, where you were able to be after sunset, into what doorway you could enter and exit, whether you could get healthcare at the nearest hospital, where you went to school, who you could marry, what jobs you could hold, where you sat on a bus, what water fountains you could drink from, whether you were allowed to vote or sit on a jury. The racism that created those comprehensive LAWS, policies and practices persists today, manifesting itself in myriad ways that triggers the very outrage you are complaining about.
When I first joined the Jaguars.com board, I literally argued against the entire board on this very topic. I was quite familiar with the subject matter, as I graduated from law school just a couple of years before, and my Upper Level Writing requirement was on this subject.
Cyrus Mehri and Johnnie Cochran (yes that one) threatened an employment discrimination action against the NFL and its member clubs for the failure to hire black coaches. The immediate, reflective reaction to that was aversion to the idea NFL teams would somehow be forced to hire unqualified minorities. Interestingly, a few months later, the Jaguars hired Jack Del Rio to be their next head coach.
At the time, he had all of ONE (1) year as an NFL defensive coordinator, and maybe 6 years as a position coach. At the time, there were numerous other candidates, black and white, who had way more experience as coordinators and coaches than JDR. Yet when he was hired, there was universal celebration. People gleefully echoed the sentiment he expressed in the pres conference that "there would be no more 3 yards and a cloud of dust." Yet these same people were dead silent about JDR's comparative lack of qualifications. As a group, the people on this board associated a lack of qualifications to black coaching candidates, but did not subject guys like JDR to the same scrutiny. He was given the the unquestioned presumption of qualification they denied to the hypothetical black coaching candidate without having any idea what qualifications that unnamed coach might actually have. When I called them on it, nobody had anything remotely resembling an explanation for the double standards.
Whether you think this double standard is the end result of conscious or unconscious bias, the end result is the same. Sadly, NFL owners are not exempt from these biases, and neither are black/latino/Asian coaches. This disparity has state and federal law implications, to say nothing about ramifications in the lives of the coaches involved.
(02-04-2022, 10:32 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ](02-04-2022, 08:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]That's the whole point.
It's never been purely about merit.
How else can you explain Josh McCown, whose only coaching experience is on the high school level, actually getting a SECOND NFL head coaching interview?!?
For over a decade, African Americans weren't allowed in the NFL at all as a matter of policy. For several decades to follow, they weren't allowed to play certain positions like QB, C and MLB, under the rationale that blacks were not equipped to handle the more cerebral positions.
As a society, we aren't too far removed from a time where race dictated where you were able to live, where you were able to be after sunset, into what doorway you could enter and exit, whether you could get healthcare at the nearest hospital, where you went to school, who you could marry, what jobs you could hold, where you sat on a bus, what water fountains you could drink from, whether you were allowed to vote or sit on a jury. The racism that created those comprehensive LAWS, policies and practices persists today, manifesting itself in myriad ways that triggers the very outrage you are complaining about.
When I first joined the Jaguars.com board, I literally argued against the entire board on this very topic. I was quite familiar with the subject matter, as I graduated from law school just a couple of years before, and my Upper Level Writing requirement was on this subject.
Cyrus Mehri and Johnnie Cochran (yes that one) threatened an employment discrimination action against the NFL and its member clubs for the failure to hire black coaches. The immediate, reflective reaction to that was aversion to the idea NFL teams would somehow be forced to hire unqualified minorities. Interestingly, a few months later, the Jaguars hired Jack Del Rio to be their next head coach.
At the time, he had all of ONE (1) year as an NFL defensive coordinator, and maybe 6 years as a position coach. At the time, there were numerous other candidates, black and white, who had way more experience as coordinators and coaches than JDR. Yet when he was hired, there was universal celebration. People gleefully echoed the sentiment he expressed in the pres conference that "there would be no more 3 yards and a cloud of dust." Yet these same people were dead silent about JDR's comparative lack of qualifications. As a group, the people on this board associated a lack of qualifications to black coaching candidates, but did not subject guys like JDR to the same scrutiny. He was given the the unquestioned presumption of qualification they denied to the hypothetical black coaching candidate without having any idea what qualifications that unnamed coach might actually have. When I called them on it, nobody had anything remotely resembling an explanation for the double standards.
Whether you think this double standard is the end result of conscious or unconscious bias, the end result is the same. Sadly, NFL owners are not exempt from these biases, and neither are black/latino/Asian coaches. This disparity has state and federal law implications, to say nothing about ramifications in the lives of the coaches involved.
A lot of what you have said is understandable and while I may disagree in some conclusions, I do know this: you are right that for whatever reason, minorities are not getting head coaching opportunists.
But to me the Flores lawsuit just showed what a mockery the Rooney rule has been made by franchises.
There has to be a better path to help identify and move forward qualified minority candidates. But I’ll be darned if I know what it is.
(02-04-2022, 11:04 PM)AlsJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]This can't be done as one it creates levels so it takes to long to move up. The second thing is the coaches have to be a good fit personally and be able to work with the team.(02-04-2022, 10:32 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of what you have said is understandable and while I may disagree in some conclusions, I do know this: you are right that for whatever reason, minorities are not getting head coaching opportunists.
But to me the Flores lawsuit just showed what a mockery the Rooney rule has been made by franchises.
There has to be a better path to help identify and move forward qualified minority candidates. But I’ll be darned if I know what it is.
Every HC interview should be done with the top 16 OCs DCs and STCs and then add another 5-10 misc people (people out of the league etc). This interview is generic, they each get a piece of paper to write the answers to the questions. Then the interviewers ask position specific questions. After that wave only bring back the 2 best oc dc stc and misc best. Those are the interviews you do 1 on 1. Take your pick.
If you want to get in the running, be in the top half of the league. As far as how to get a coordinators position again interview the top 16 people just below that position. So 16 QB coach's, Online coaches etc. Might take a bit longer but I don't see how that couldn't be considered fair. You're not hiring the best of the best but you are interviewing the best of the best.
(02-04-2022, 08:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree in most cases. Sure there are going to be a few racist coaches but overall I believe the owners want to win above all else. If there was a black coach who was above other candidates I believe in most cases they would be hired.(02-04-2022, 07:31 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]What I hate about that whole take is making Race the feature of the article.
Why do we have to say "black coach" It isn't like we call every white coach "white coach"
Judge a man on his merits and accomplishments not the color of his skin. I hate this whole new age pc/cancel culture who like to label everything.
That's the whole point.
It's never been purely about merit.
How else can you explain Josh McCown, whose only coaching experience is on the high school level, actually getting a SECOND NFL head coaching interview?!?
For over a decade, African Americans weren't allowed in the NFL at all as a matter of policy. For several decades to follow, they weren't allowed to play certain positions like QB, C and MLB, under the rationale that blacks were not equipped to handle the more cerebral positions.
As a society, we aren't too far removed from a time where race dictated where you were able to live, where you were able to be after sunset, into what doorway you could enter and exit, whether you could get healthcare at the nearest hospital, where you went to school, who you could marry, what jobs you could hold, where you sat on a bus, what water fountains you could drink from, whether you were allowed to vote or sit on a jury. The racism that created those comprehensive LAWS, policies and practices persists today, manifesting itself in myriad ways that triggers the very outrage you are complaining about.
When I first joined the Jaguars.com board, I literally argued against the entire board on this very topic. I was quite familiar with the subject matter, as I graduated from law school just a couple of years before, and my Upper Level Writing requirement was on this subject.
Cyrus Mehri and Johnnie Cochran (yes that one) threatened an employment discrimination action against the NFL and its member clubs for the failure to hire black coaches. The immediate, reflective reaction to that was aversion to the idea NFL teams would somehow be forced to hire unqualified minorities. Interestingly, a few months later, the Jaguars hired Jack Del Rio to be their next head coach.
At the time, he had all of ONE (1) year as an NFL defensive coordinator, and maybe 6 years as a position coach. At the time, there were numerous other candidates, black and white, who had way more experience as coordinators and coaches than JDR. Yet when he was hired, there was universal celebration. People gleefully echoed the sentiment he expressed in the pres conference that "there would be no more 3 yards and a cloud of dust." Yet these same people were dead silent about JDR's comparative lack of qualifications. As a group, the people on this board associated a lack of qualifications to black coaching candidates, but did not subject guys like JDR to the same scrutiny. He was given the the unquestioned presumption of qualification they denied to the hypothetical black coaching candidate without having any idea what qualifications that unnamed coach might actually have. When I called them on it, nobody had anything remotely resembling an explanation for the double standards.
Whether you think this double standard is the end result of conscious or unconscious bias, the end result is the same. Sadly, NFL owners are not exempt from these biases, and neither are black/latino/Asian coaches. This disparity has state and federal law implications, to say nothing about ramifications in the lives of the coaches involved.
(02-04-2022, 11:40 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. Hiring anybody based on skin tone is pure racist both ways. Maybe there aren't that many African American candidates currently either want the job, not qualified or experienced enough, or applied for head coaching jobs right now.(02-04-2022, 11:04 PM)AlsJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]Every HC interview should be done with the top 16 OCs DCs and STCs and then add another 5-10 misc people (people out of the league etc). This interview is generic, they each get a piece of paper to write the answers to the questions. Then the interviewers ask position specific questions. After that wave only bring back the 2 best oc dc stc and misc best. Those are the interviews you do 1 on 1. Take your pick.This can't be done as one it creates levels so it takes to long to move up. The second thing is the coaches have to be a good fit personally and be able to work with the team.
If you want to get in the running, be in the top half of the league. As far as how to get a coordinators position again interview the top 16 people just below that position. So 16 QB coach's, Online coaches etc. Might take a bit longer but I don't see how that couldn't be considered fair. You're not hiring the best of the best but you are interviewing the best of the best.
Pederson got himself fired because he wasn't a fit with the GM and the GM had more control with the owner.
Leftwich didn't get hired because Khan isn't going to fire Baalke or wasn't just going to hire whoever Leftwich wanted without an interview process.
The NFL is going to have a bigger problem coming soon. Look at who is getting interviews now. Younger coordinators who may or may not played the game. If they played football, they usually weren't good enough to play much in college. They worked as unpaid assistants, took classes, GAs, etc. They went wherever to learn how to create an off/Def.
These are not your normal past NFL coaches who were jocks themselves usually. The game has moved past that and you can't force teams to hire coaches based on skin color.
Even though the majority of the players are minorities, there are a lot of environment and societal norms that make it a small chance that minority will have the same resume as the coaches getting hired now.
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