(02-04-2022, 11:10 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Byron got offered the job, with less qualifications than Pederson, and we all celebrated. By all accounts, he turned the job down after hearing about the details. I think trying to make the jags coaching search about race is ridiculous. Byron will be an amazing coach. The guy scored a 40 on his Wunderlich test, played QB at a high level, and by all accounts connects with players well (including the GOAT). I do think he is going to be a long-term fixture in the NFL and probably gets his job next cycle. Unfortunately, it is unlikely to be here.
Why keep repeating false information?
He scored a 25 on that test, if I'm not mistaken.
(02-04-2022, 11:45 PM)KodiakJag Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2022, 11:10 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Byron got offered the job, with less qualifications than Pederson, and we all celebrated. By all accounts, he turned the job down after hearing about the details. I think trying to make the jags coaching search about race is ridiculous. Byron will be an amazing coach. The guy scored a 40 on his Wunderlich test, played QB at a high level, and by all accounts connects with players well (including the GOAT). I do think he is going to be a long-term fixture in the NFL and probably gets his job next cycle. Unfortunately, it is unlikely to be here.
Why keep repeating false information?
He scored a 25 on that test, if I'm not mistaken.
Yep, he scored a 25.
The Wunderlic is a garbage test anyways.
Have we even confirmed that Leftwich was offered the job?
(02-04-2022, 11:45 PM)KodiakJag Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2022, 11:10 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Byron got offered the job, with less qualifications than Pederson, and we all celebrated. By all accounts, he turned the job down after hearing about the details. I think trying to make the jags coaching search about race is ridiculous. Byron will be an amazing coach. The guy scored a 40 on his Wunderlich test, played QB at a high level, and by all accounts connects with players well (including the GOAT). I do think he is going to be a long-term fixture in the NFL and probably gets his job next cycle. Unfortunately, it is unlikely to be here.
Why keep repeating false information?
He scored a 25 on that test, if I'm not mistaken.
My bad. Sorry did not realize I was off on that.
(02-04-2022, 11:54 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2022, 11:45 PM)KodiakJag Wrote: [ -> ]Why keep repeating false information?
He scored a 25 on that test, if I'm not mistaken.
Yep, he scored a 25.
The Wunderlic is a garbage test anyways.
Have we even confirmed that Leftwich was offered the job?
It's not garbage but it doesn't apply to football. If taken seriously, it would most likely show correlation with IQ.
Players may not care, may be worried about running, may be tired, etc.
You want your coaches to be smart now, idiot jocks are getting passed by in coaching now. If you aren't an x and o coach you probably aren't going to get jobs or keep HC jobs.
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Alright, here's the dish on Doug!!!
He's got juevos bigger than an elephant. He is a master play caller and game manager. He alone can manufacture wins in this league because he understands the flow of the game at a very cerebral level. As an Eagles fan, I thank him for out coaching Belichick and bringing us our first Lombardi. Doug had Wentz playing at an MVP level because he catered the offense to Wentz skillset. When Wentz went down, he built a custom offense to cater to Nick Foles in just a few weeks.
After that Super Bowl, our GM, who is not a football guy started drafting like he was a draft whisperer and totally blew it. We went from a talent laden team in 2017 to talent barren by 2019. Doug still took a group of nobodies back to the playoffs and in 2018 was one play away from the NFC championship game. In 2019, with the talent all but gone, he still got them back in the playoffs. The problem was never Doug, the problem has always been our GM. Doug went to the owner and said I can fix this but the GM needs to take a step back. They let him go instead.
You're getting a top 5 coach. He's neck and neck with Bellichick as one of the best play callers and his ability to understand the flow of the game. He builds a culture that is amazing and he'll keep the team focused and playing at a high level. Doug is very good at scripting for the players on the team and utilizing them in his offense. If Ertz does sign, he'll have a package and role for Ertz but his true scheme is more like KC.
Here's the dish on Press Taylor. He is like an encyclopedia of football plays. Some of our most creative plays came from him. That's why you want him around. He doesn't coach in a traditional role but his knowledge of football and schemes is invaluable to building a weekly game plan and scheming opponents.
Anyway, the Eagles let go of their Super Bowl winning QB and their Super Bowl winning coach and now we suck again. Our organization is dysfunctional and yet Doug won us a super bowl four years ago today.
(02-05-2022, 12:14 AM)vileborg Wrote: [ -> ]Alright, here's the dish on Doug!!!
He's got juevos bigger than an elephant. He is a master play caller and game manager. He alone can manufacture wins in this league because he understands the flow of the game at a very cerebral level. As an Eagles fan, I thank him for out coaching Belichick and bringing us our first Lombardi. Doug had Wentz playing at an MVP level because he catered the offense to Wentz skillset. When Wentz went down, he built a custom offense to cater to Nick Foles in just a few weeks.
After that Super Bowl, our GM, who is not a football guy started drafting like he was a draft whisperer and totally blew it. We went from a talent laden team in 2017 to talent barren by 2019. Doug still took a group of nobodies back to the playoffs and in 2018 was one play away from the NFC championship game. In 2019, with the talent all but gone, he still got them back in the playoffs. The problem was never Doug, the problem has always been our GM. Doug went to the owner and said I can fix this but the GM needs to take a step back. They let him go instead.
You're getting a top 5 coach. He's neck and neck with Bellichick as one of the best play callers and his ability to understand the flow of the game. He builds a culture that is amazing and he'll keep the team focused and playing at a high level. Doug is very good at scripting for the players on the team and utilizing them in his offense. If Ertz does sign, he'll have a package and role for Ertz but his true scheme is more like KC.
Here's the dish on Press Taylor. He is like an encyclopedia of football plays. Some of our most creative plays came from him. That's why you want him around. He doesn't coach in a traditional role but his knowledge of football and schemes is invaluable to building a weekly game plan and scheming opponents.
Anyway, the Eagles let go of their Super Bowl winning QB and their Super Bowl winning coach and now we suck again. Our organization is dysfunctional and yet Doug won us a super bowl four years ago today.
That's a very good read. Thanks for that. I cant wait to see how everything starts coming together. Drafts and everything all the way to week 1
The #1 positive on Pederson.
He has experience catering his game plan to maximize success for his QB's. This spells a major plus for Lawrence!
(02-04-2022, 11:54 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2022, 11:45 PM)KodiakJag Wrote: [ -> ]Why keep repeating false information?
He scored a 25 on that test, if I'm not mistaken.
Yep, he scored a 25.
The Wunderlic is a garbage test anyways.
Have we even confirmed that Leftwich was offered the job?
To answer your question, no. We have not seen it confirmed anywhere he was offered the job. The only confirmation we have is that he withdrew his name from consideration a mere three days before Pederson was hired.
You could conclude that the Jags panicked when Leftwich withdrew his name. You would be wiser to conclude that Leftwich withdrew his name when he realised he was not going to get the job. In fact, withdrawing his name may have been a test to see if he was top candidate.
Scenario A:
Left: I withdraw
Jags: Sorry to hear that. Best of luck.
Scenario B:
Left: I withdraw
Jags: What? We are serious to hire you. Let's talk some more? What's the issue?
The we-missed-out crowd are trying to argue that B happened and Leftwich walked rather than talk some more. The wise crowd knows it was A.
(02-05-2022, 12:14 AM)vileborg Wrote: [ -> ]Alright, here's the dish on Doug!!!
He's got juevos bigger than an elephant. He is a master play caller and game manager. He alone can manufacture wins in this league because he understands the flow of the game at a very cerebral level. As an Eagles fan, I thank him for out coaching Belichick and bringing us our first Lombardi. Doug had Wentz playing at an MVP level because he catered the offense to Wentz skillset. When Wentz went down, he built a custom offense to cater to Nick Foles in just a few weeks.
After that Super Bowl, our GM, who is not a football guy started drafting like he was a draft whisperer and totally blew it. We went from a talent laden team in 2017 to talent barren by 2019. Doug still took a group of nobodies back to the playoffs and in 2018 was one play away from the NFC championship game. In 2019, with the talent all but gone, he still got them back in the playoffs. The problem was never Doug, the problem has always been our GM. Doug went to the owner and said I can fix this but the GM needs to take a step back. They let him go instead.
You're getting a top 5 coach. He's neck and neck with Bellichick as one of the best play callers and his ability to understand the flow of the game. He builds a culture that is amazing and he'll keep the team focused and playing at a high level. Doug is very good at scripting for the players on the team and utilizing them in his offense. If Ertz does sign, he'll have a package and role for Ertz but his true scheme is more like KC.
Here's the dish on Press Taylor. He is like an encyclopedia of football plays. Some of our most creative plays came from him. That's why you want him around. He doesn't coach in a traditional role but his knowledge of football and schemes is invaluable to building a weekly game plan and scheming opponents.
Anyway, the Eagles let go of their Super Bowl winning QB and their Super Bowl winning coach and now we suck again. Our organization is dysfunctional and yet Doug won us a super bowl four years ago today.
i appreciate this more then you know....
this insight is invaluable and from what i've been reading thus far... your not alone in thinking they canned the wrong guy.
I've also been seeing quite a bit of people think you should have canned Wentz and kept Pederson? was there an issue between those 2 in addition to the GM/HC?
As I said yesterday getting very nervous about Spielmen not coming. Changes the whole hire of pederson of he doesn’t not only because baalke will still have a huge say in what’s going on but it will
Be proof that we had zero intentions of giving Doug the job and he only got it because he was only one willing to work with Trent.
Hopefully Spielmen gets wrapped up in next day or so and I can get rid of these feelings
(02-04-2022, 11:10 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Byron got offered the job, with less qualifications than Pederson, and we all celebrated. By all accounts, he turned the job down after hearing about the details. I think trying to make the jags coaching search about race is ridiculous. Byron will be an amazing coach. The guy scored a 40 on his Wunderlich test, played QB at a high level, and by all accounts connects with players well (including the GOAT). I do think he is going to be a long-term fixture in the NFL and probably gets his job next cycle. Unfortunately, it is unlikely to be here.
Nobody, and I mean nobody ever said that every failure of every minority to get every head coaching job is race based.
By the same token, in the NFL head coaching realm, minority qualifications are undervalued with alarming frequency.
The primary reason cited for former Packers' OC Sherm Lewis not getting a head coaching gig was that he did not call plays while under Holmgren.
Yet that same playcalling qualification did not harm Pederson when applying for the Eagles' HC gig, although he did not consistently call plays under Andy Reid. Kevin O' Connell, who has been named the new head coach of the Vikings, did not call plays as Rams' OC. He's been a OC for all of three years. But nobody had problems with his qualifications for the job. Conversely, being a playcaller under Andy Reid's Chiefs offense for four years has not translated into a HC gig for Eric Bienemy. Leftwich called plays under Bruce Arians for years and by most measures, he was successful at it. Yet you hasten to point out his "lack" of qualifications. Admittedly, he has not been a head coach who won a Super Bowl like Pederson, but using experience as a playcalling cooordinator as a barometer of qualifications, he should have gotten consideration over O'Connell and McCown if merit were the only consideration.
Why the double standards?
(02-04-2022, 10:32 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2022, 08:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]That's the whole point.
It's never been purely about merit.
How else can you explain Josh McCown, whose only coaching experience is on the high school level, actually getting a SECOND NFL head coaching interview?!?
For over a decade, African Americans weren't allowed in the NFL at all as a matter of policy. For several decades to follow, they weren't allowed to play certain positions like QB, C and MLB, under the rationale that blacks were not equipped to handle the more cerebral positions.
As a society, we aren't too far removed from a time where race dictated where you were able to live, where you were able to be after sunset, into what doorway you could enter and exit, whether you could get healthcare at the nearest hospital, where you went to school, who you could marry, what jobs you could hold, where you sat on a bus, what water fountains you could drink from, whether you were allowed to vote or sit on a jury. The racism that created those comprehensive LAWS, policies and practices persists today, manifesting itself in myriad ways that triggers the very outrage you are complaining about.
When I first joined the Jaguars.com board, I literally argued against the entire board on this very topic. I was quite familiar with the subject matter, as I graduated from law school just a couple of years before, and my Upper Level Writing requirement was on this subject.
Cyrus Mehri and Johnnie Cochran (yes that one) threatened an employment discrimination action against the NFL and its member clubs for the failure to hire black coaches. The immediate, reflective reaction to that was aversion to the idea NFL teams would somehow be forced to hire unqualified minorities. Interestingly, a few months later, the Jaguars hired Jack Del Rio to be their next head coach.
At the time, he had all of ONE (1) year as an NFL defensive coordinator, and maybe 6 years as a position coach. At the time, there were numerous other candidates, black and white, who had way more experience as coordinators and coaches than JDR. Yet when he was hired, there was universal celebration. People gleefully echoed the sentiment he expressed in the pres conference that "there would be no more 3 yards and a cloud of dust." Yet these same people were dead silent about JDR's comparative lack of qualifications. As a group, the people on this board associated a lack of qualifications to black coaching candidates, but did not subject guys like JDR to the same scrutiny. He was given the the unquestioned presumption of qualification they denied to the hypothetical black coaching candidate without having any idea what qualifications that unnamed coach might actually have. When I called them on it, nobody had anything remotely resembling an explanation for the double standards.
Whether you think this double standard is the end result of conscious or unconscious bias, the end result is the same. Sadly, NFL owners are not exempt from these biases, and neither are black/latino/Asian coaches. This disparity has state and federal law implications, to say nothing about ramifications in the lives of the coaches involved.
A lot of what you have said is understandable and while I may disagree in some conclusions, I do know this: you are right that for whatever reason, minorities are not getting head coaching opportunists.
But to me the Flores lawsuit just showed what a mockery the Rooney rule has been made by franchises.
There has to be a better path to help identify and move forward qualified minority candidates. But I’ll be darned if I know what it is.
Thing is, the Rooney Rule was created to preempt the threatened litigation by Mehri and Cochran.
By some metrics, it worked...at least initially. But over time, as teams learned how it would and would not be enforced, the perception grew that it was just a sham until we've reached our current situation.
(02-05-2022, 04:13 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2022, 10:32 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of what you have said is understandable and while I may disagree in some conclusions, I do know this: you are right that for whatever reason, minorities are not getting head coaching opportunists.
But to me the Flores lawsuit just showed what a mockery the Rooney rule has been made by franchises.
There has to be a better path to help identify and move forward qualified minority candidates. But I’ll be darned if I know what it is.
Thing is, the Rooney Rule was created to preempt the threatened litigation by Mehri and Cochran.
By some metrics, it worked...at least initially. But over time, as teams learned how it would and would not be enforced, the perception grew that it was just a sham until we've reached our current situation.
After what's happened with Wilks, Culley and Flores. I agree. One and done with really no justifiable reasoning and Flores pulled after really, really impressive feats over the last three years.
I also find it sad that Bowles didn't get a lot of attention this year for a job. I think his play calling against the Chiefs in the Superbowl last year was outstanding. Brady's name overshadowed an amazing defensive performance.
It'll be interesting to see what comes out of this. I still think the NFL didn't do it's due diligence completely with the Washington email leaks. Bet there's more Gruden's in that email but they stopped the bleeding after they found his name first.
Par for the course though for the NFL.
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(02-05-2022, 05:54 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (02-05-2022, 04:13 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Thing is, the Rooney Rule was created to preempt the threatened litigation by Mehri and Cochran.
By some metrics, it worked...at least initially. But over time, as teams learned how it would and would not be enforced, the perception grew that it was just a sham until we've reached our current situation.
After what's happened with Wilks, Culley and Flores. I agree. One and done with really no justifiable reasoning and Flores pulled after really, really impressive feats over the last three years.
I also find it sad that Bowles didn't get a lot of attention this year for a job. I think his play calling against the Chiefs in the Superbowl last year was outstanding. Brady's name overshadowed an amazing defensive performance.
It'll be interesting to see what comes out of this. I still think the NFL didn't do it's due diligence completely with the Washington email leaks. Bet there's more Gruden's in that email but they stopped the bleeding after they found his name first.
Par for the course though for the NFL.
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To quote Logan Roy on Succession, "We might have to have a blood sacrifice."
By which I mean, the result of the Flores lawsuit and the allegations of bribing coaches to throw games might be that the NFL has to force a couple of owners into selling their teams.
(02-05-2022, 07:05 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (02-05-2022, 05:54 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]After what's happened with Wilks, Culley and Flores. I agree. One and done with really no justifiable reasoning and Flores pulled after really, really impressive feats over the last three years.
I also find it sad that Bowles didn't get a lot of attention this year for a job. I think his play calling against the Chiefs in the Superbowl last year was outstanding. Brady's name overshadowed an amazing defensive performance.
It'll be interesting to see what comes out of this. I still think the NFL didn't do it's due diligence completely with the Washington email leaks. Bet there's more Gruden's in that email but they stopped the bleeding after they found his name first.
Par for the course though for the NFL.
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To quote Logan Roy on Succession, "We might have to have a blood sacrifice."
By which I mean, the result of the Flores lawsuit and the allegations of bribing coaches to throw games might be that the NFL has to force a couple of owners into selling their teams.
While I think that would be an interesting outcome. I think the only team likely to have that happen is Washington. Snyder is a pig.
I don't see Ross being outed in Miami though. I think that's something they'll quietly hush by the time everything is settled. I think the suggestions made by Hue Jackson were also interesting but he wasn't exactly forthright with the meaning behind being incentivized to lose. He made it sound like it was a disconnect from what I understood. He was being given kickback money here and there but nothing was being disclosed as to why. I think he's back tracking a bit now. Possibly out of fear of never being able to coach anywhere again.
Timing of that information couldn't have been more horrible for the Bengals and Mike Brown. Mike Brown was already notorious for being relatively cheap to begin with, think he had a ridiculously understaffed scouting department by NFL standards. Which honestly makes a ton of sense now as to why this team at times was taking high risk players in later rounds with questionable character off the field.
But to have this news broken right before a Superbowl? What a bummer.
Byron might be a good HC down the line but we got a guy who has proven already that he can do this thing and take it to the bowl. We needed a guy with experience NOW for Lawrence not later. We didn't have time to let a guy grow into it.. we need someone who can help Trevor now before he continues playing the way he did last year. I love this hire and am so glad we didn't fall into that trap.
(02-05-2022, 07:53 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Byron might be a good HC down the line but we got a guy who has proven already that he can do this thing and take it to the bowl. We needed a guy with experience NOW for Lawrence not later. We didn't have time to let a guy grow into it.. we need someone who can help Trevor now before he continues playing the way he did last year. I love this hire and am so glad we didn't fall into that trap.
I agree. At least on paper I agree. Adding Pederson but still having Baalke in the building is the equivalent to ripping a huge fart in front of your favorite celebrity crush. It's embarrassing and unflattering. Let's just pray Spielman is walking into that building soon with some febreze. Ready to see some fresh air around that place. It's stagnant.
(02-05-2022, 07:53 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Byron might be a good HC down the line but we got a guy who has proven already that he can do this thing and take it to the bowl. We needed a guy with experience NOW for Lawrence not later. We didn't have time to let a guy grow into it.. we need someone who can help Trevor now before he continues playing the way he did last year. I love this hire and am so glad we didn't fall into that trap.
No one in here is really disagreeing with the hire of Pederson. He’s a very good coach and will likely help Trevor immensely. Look at the 2nd season for Wentz. I know it’s a broken record but it’s the process. 30+ days between his 1st and 2nd interview? Asking to interview other coaches who you can’t interview til after the SB? Offering the job to multiple candidates (rumored) before landing on Pederson.
And now, if they don’t hire Spielman (which I think they will), it will look even worse. Pederson with Baalke will blow up. Pederson with Spielman and Baalke is salvageable.
Having Spielman join the team would be a disaster. He shouldn't have lasted as long as he did with the Vikings. Maybe now they can make the Super Bowl.i
(02-05-2022, 09:40 AM)JaggedSioux Wrote: [ -> ]Having Spielman join the team would be a disaster. He shouldn't have lasted as long as he did with the Vikings. Maybe now they can make the Super Bowl.i
Time will tell. I would still take Spielman over Baalke though. Without question. After 2013 the Vikings won no less than seven games per year. I think the primary setback up there was QB play. Cousins really didn't elevate that team like they had hoped. Granted, he's a pretty damn good QB during the regular season statistically. They still felt the need to draft Mond last year in RD3. Zimmer may have been the bigger problem. He's defensive minded. A lot of those guys tend to fall short for whatever reason. Jack Del Rio, Ron Rivera, Marvin Lewis, etc.
If you think Pederson is the guy. And if you think Lawrence is the guy? Having Spielman's knack for trading back in drafts and actually finding players worth a [BLEEP] across the draftboard? He may actually be the guy that puts you over in a year or two here. Again, go look at some of his draft classes. This guy knows talent when he sees it. Especially on offense.