(10-11-2022, 02:10 PM)MyKids Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2022, 12:55 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think he's a drop back QB. I think he's more along the lines of tier II, I need to move around and make plays on the run type of QB. Which is exactly what most of today's top QB tier is. Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Tua Tagovailoa, Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts, etc.
The days of pure pocket passers and drop back and sling it QB's are going away. It doesn't mean you can't get it done with those guys or that they don't exist. Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Kirk Cousins, etc. Those guys are still out there getting it done to the best of their abilities but even then at times it feels like the overall speed is catching up to them.
In five games I feel like it's been made pretty self evident. Lawrence, at this time? He's struggling to get it done from the pocket, at least consistently. It doesn't mean that he can't do it. However, when you look at him, he really does live up to the Sunshine Brett Favre nickname.
Virtually every pass is a [BLEEP] bullet. Doesn't matter if it's 5 yards, 15 yards or 50 yards. He likes throwing it at full force. This is due to the nature in which he played football at Clemson. The RPO, short, quick and out stuff. He wasn't asked to drop back 30, 40 times per game. In fact, his first two years at Clemson he maybe average 25 pass attempts per game at the most and was doing a lot more with his legs.
He's at his absolute BEST when he's asked to roll out, bootleg or streak out to one side of the field and find the open man. I think Pederson needs to get back to this in his play calling. I know he wants those explosive plays, those big shots downfield but so far over these last five games it's just not there and it's not working when it is there because Sunshine doesn't have that touch in his arm yet to make those plays.
So, stick to what he's good at. Misdirection, boot legs, roll outs, play action fakes, etc. It's not going to work every game. And I get that. I am not saying you completely abandon those deep shots and deep attempts. However, if you're asking him to drop back more than 25 times per game? The shorter passes, the screens, the swings and bailout options need to be there for him.
He needs to have layered routes, again, something he's shown he can do, it's funny, but, we've seen it a few times this year where he'll have multiple targets working from left to right or right to left and he's able to bail out of the pocket and pick his receiver or target that he can hit comfortably while on the move.
He makes the difficult [BLEEP] look easy and the easy [BLEEP] look difficult at times. It's truly impressive.
A drop back is a QB that can consistently makes plays in the pocket.
Those you listed do all that. Even, Lamar.... Lamar is known for his running but his pocket presence is underrated. Tua? I'm not sure on him yet as this is his 2nd year but... Allen, rodgers, lamar, mahomes are all dropback QBs....
Those guys make quick plays and passes from the pocket. It's extremely rare you're seeing those guys drop back five steps and standing in the pocket to make those explosive plays. All of those guys are movers.
Those guys consistently flush out of the pocket, dance around and make plays that a traditional drop back and pass it from the pocket QB cannot make. A lot of those are by design as well. QB Bail, WR/TE/RB find the opening in the secondary, sit and let the QB locate you.
That's been going on now for a good decade it feels like.
W/this being his first season as HC, the only issue that I have w/him is that he leaves points on the field. Take the points Coach. They add up. Hopefully this will change.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
(10-11-2022, 05:54 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]W/this being his first season as HC, the only issue that I have w/him is that he leaves points on the field. Take the points Coach. They add up. Hopefully this will change.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
This. It's hard to disagree here. As much [BLEEP] as Lawrence has caught over the last two weeks. Pederson's aggressiveness at times is admirable but it also feels overkill. Especially in one possession games.
He's 4/11 on 4th down. Yet, we're 9/10 with field goals. He needs to figure something out there. Either get better at 3rd down efficiency or give your kicker the respect he's earned. He missed one kick in week one. Since then he's made a wide variety of 20's, a high 30, some mid 40's and a 50 yarder.
Just give him more opportunities.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
The only thing I would complain about is that we should be running a lot more.
Kevin O'Connell is also 4-1 btw. I am happy with Pederson though (so far).
(10-11-2022, 08:51 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]The only thing I would complain about is that we should be running a lot more.
Kevin O'Connell is also 4-1 btw. I am happy with Pederson though (so far).
That Vikings team is loaded, they should win that division
(10-09-2022, 05:41 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (10-09-2022, 05:38 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence needs to execute better. Doug has done fine play call wise. It's the eight turnovers [three being on final drive opportunities to tie the game or win it] and bad throws that were missed TD's that have cost you in all three games.
I think Pederson has to start adapting his focal points offensively and slowly start working Lawrence back into the offense to rebuild his confidence and trust in him. Two bad weeks in a row is enough for me. Let's not [BLEEP] around and find out and make it three due to Lawrence.
Next Sunday? I gameplan an offense and defense that only requires me to throw it no more than 25 times with Lawrence to win the game. With more than 85% of those attempts being short to midfield shots, screens and bootlegs that should be and QB friendly. Cannot trust Lawrence to hit the deep ball if our lives depended on it.
It's been made evident in five games now. Even in the two wins it was mostly the short and sweet stuff. No shame in scaling back the playbook and shortening the field of vision up for a struggling QB two weeks in a row failing to protect the ball, hit the long plays and missing wide open opportunities.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Agreed, but unfortunately , good DC's eat that offensive strategy alive.
Good thing this week is against Gus
The biggest one seemed to be his loyalty to his assistant coaches, many of which were kinda duds. Aside from Reich, Pederson's assistant coaches on offense never really progressed and he preferred keeping everything internal, promoting the next guy in line over outside hires. Thats what led to his dismissal in Philly.
He refused to bring in new staff with new ideas and the offense got stale. After losing Frank Reich as OC and John DeFlippo as QB coach he decided to promote from within to replace those positions with Mike Groh (WR coach previously) and Press Taylor (assistant QB coach previously) who had less than half of the NFL experience as the guys they replaced) The offense started looking stale and Groh was fired by Lurie end of the season against Pederson's wishes. Lurie and Howie tried again for Pederson to get an outside hire, he refused and had some guys forced on him and didnt have a OC. Offense looked even worse combined with bad QB play and injuries. Pederson again was asked to bring in an outside OC, he instead wanted to promote Press Taylor to OC who oversaw Carson Wentz turning into a MVP candidate under DeFlippo to total dog [BLEEP], like not sure why that would warrant a promotion. Lurie and Howie said [BLEEP] that [BLEEP] and showed him the door. Basically he didn't want to adapt and bring in outside guys. Additionally many guys on his original staff were suggestions from Lurie/Howie such as Schwartz
(10-11-2022, 08:51 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]The only thing I would complain about is that we should be running a lot more.
Kevin O'Connell is also 4-1 btw. I am happy with Pederson though (so far).
The offensive line is better at pass pro than run block.
Pederson is using this team strengths and believes in the QB.
(10-12-2022, 03:15 PM)MyKids Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2022, 08:51 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]The only thing I would complain about is that we should be running a lot more.
Kevin O'Connell is also 4-1 btw. I am happy with Pederson though (so far).
The offensive line is better at pass pro than run block.
Pederson is using this team strengths and believes in the QB.
The line is actually bad at both
That's why Pederson is having more success in the passing game on quick release stuff than longer developing plays, And why we see so much ZBS, misdirection, smoke and mirrors/gadgetry in the run game
Pederson knows how to mitigate weaknesses - this offensive line is giving him very little strength to utilize
(10-12-2022, 03:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2022, 03:15 PM)MyKids Wrote: [ -> ]The offensive line is better at pass pro than run block.
Pederson is using this team strengths and believes in the QB.
The line is actually bad at both
That's why Pederson is having more success in the passing game on quick release stuff than longer developing plays, And why we see so much ZBS, misdirection, smoke and mirrors/gadgetry in the run game
Pederson knows how to mitigate weaknesses - this offensive line is giving him very little strength to utilize
110% agreed on this. We learned this in week one on the road and we learned this in week four on the road. The solution at the moment is in the middle of all of that. Quick, bootleg, rollout, etc.
Lawrence essentially has to play a perfect game from the pocket if the opponents match up for it accordingly and the running game has to be effective early and often when called upon.
It's a matter of growth and development. There's a reason why they had to draft Fortner, sign Scherff and trade for Van Lanen. They primarily focused on the defense this off season, which, it's paid off early. I think next year we'll see the same effort being made to bolster the offensive line with better overall play.
(10-12-2022, 03:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2022, 03:15 PM)MyKids Wrote: [ -> ]The offensive line is better at pass pro than run block.
Pederson is using this team strengths and believes in the QB.
The line is actually bad at both
That's why Pederson is having more success in the passing game on quick release stuff than longer developing plays, And why we see so much ZBS, misdirection, smoke and mirrors/gadgetry in the run game
Pederson knows how to mitigate weaknesses - this offensive line is giving him very little strength to utilize
It is better than the run block. You must not watched the Raiders, Texans and the Titans offensive line in pass pros.... Lawrence has a clean pocket majority of the drop backs he just holds the ball too long at times and he lacks awareness.
(10-12-2022, 04:38 PM)MyKids Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2022, 03:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The line is actually bad at both
That's why Pederson is having more success in the passing game on quick release stuff than longer developing plays, And why we see so much ZBS, misdirection, smoke and mirrors/gadgetry in the run game
Pederson knows how to mitigate weaknesses - this offensive line is giving him very little strength to utilize
It is better than the run block. You must not watched the Raiders, Texans and the Titans offensive line in pass pros.... Lawrence has a clean pocket majority of the drop backs he just holds the ball too long at times and he lacks awareness.
Meh
I've watched everything but the last game in all22 - so leave the presumptuous bull [BLEEP] at the door, pal
You made a dumb assertion that showed you don't know this O-Line - just leave it at that -
debating which is worse between two bad elements being MITIGATED and not CAPITALIZED on (as you suggested) is a fools errand
(10-16-2022, 01:52 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2022, 08:51 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]The only thing I would complain about is that we should be running a lot more.
Kevin O'Connell is also 4-1 btw. I am happy with Pederson though (so far).
Everybody and their mother's have been calling for this in every gameday thread for the past 4 weeks.
Lol.
(10-16-2022, 01:56 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2022, 01:52 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]
Everybody and their mother's have been calling for this in every gameday thread for the past 4 weeks.
Lol.
Did it because of the post after mine, but you keep trying champ, I love having fans like you
![[Image: 084.png]](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/993/875/084.png)